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Blitz and Burner Guide v1.2.1

First post
Author
SmallShadow
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#41 - 2015-11-13 23:40:02 UTC  |  Edited by: SmallShadow
DELETED
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#42 - 2015-11-14 02:17:01 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
So potentially sticking one ECM on each logi and shooting at the burner may work for team burners.


my standard tactic is land, turn 180 (ie fly back at the mission gate) burn out and jam the logi, they fly away, kill the burner super easy. Some days jams just don't seem to work well and then maybe kill the one logi, as the jams usually work on at least one.

I'm temped to buy a hookbill and fit it up with 4x jammers, I think getting the ECM off more consistently could be better than the slight dps advantage of the garmur.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

neovita
Born2Burn
Burning Raccoons Outlaws
#43 - 2015-11-14 05:48:29 UTC  |  Edited by: neovita
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
So potentially sticking one ECM on each logi and shooting at the burner may work for team burners.


my standard tactic is land, turn 180 (ie fly back at the mission gate) burn out and jam the logi, they fly away, kill the burner super easy. Some days jams just don't seem to work well and then maybe kill the one logi, as the jams usually work on at least one.

I'm temped to buy a hookbill and fit it up with 4x jammers, I think getting the ECM off more consistently could be better than the slight dps advantage of the garmur.


You won't get even close to Garmurs range using a Hookbill with 4 Jamms fitted. Dont forget the Jaguars wreckings at closer ranges, around 1400 raw damage even at 24-25km as you can see here

Edit: Note to myself "Dont post while you are tired...."
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#44 - 2015-11-14 07:44:48 UTC
lml don't care and can easily stay outside of burner jag wrecking hit range. The idea is hopefully for more consistency with jams at a cost of dps. Hookbill has mainly a kinetic bonus, and the overall damage is getting boosted with the December patch. That said it does have a range bonus looks like 2x MGC 2x ECM fits with polarized rockets and it gets similar range to the cheap polar rocket fit. Not sure about server tick interactions as you are right on the edge of rocket range though.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2015-11-14 10:02:11 UTC
Presumably burning away from the burner instead of orbiting will extend teh rocket range slightly.

I am sticking to the LML Garmur for now as the extra time on site with the bug makes the polarized one a bit vulnerable to multiple wrecking shots.
neovita
Born2Burn
Burning Raccoons Outlaws
#46 - 2015-11-14 20:02:30 UTC  |  Edited by: neovita
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
lml don't care and can easily stay outside of burner jag wrecking hit range. The idea is hopefully for more consistency with jams at a cost of dps. Hookbill has mainly a kinetic bonus, and the overall damage is getting boosted with the December patch. That said it does have a range bonus looks like 2x MGC 2x ECM fits with polarized rockets and it gets similar range to the cheap polar rocket fit. Not sure about server tick interactions as you are right on the edge of rocket range though.


You should care and in first place COMPARE the ranges before you talk nonsence like that. You CAN'T stay out of wrecking range using your 4 Jamm fit (consider ro read the link i gave you above and at least think about the chance to hit formula). And you WON'T reach Garmur's range by only using 2x MGC. We not even started to speak about cap stability here...

Consider to take a look on both ships in EFT before you ever say things like "i don't care" to someone, who is trying to help you. You are speculating around here, most other ppl here gave both fits already a try on the testserver or at least using EFT. If speculations are more worth for you then experience, then feel free to "don't care' as much as you want and keep drawning in your own ignorance.
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
#47 - 2015-11-14 20:21:53 UTC
Here's an alternative fit using Javelins. I might drop the CCC rig for an application rig or up the locking range rig (or both). The lock range is a real pita when dealing with jams.

[Garmur, Burner - Unified]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I

Polarized Rocket Launcher, Mjolnir Javelin Rocket
Polarized Rocket Launcher, Mjolnir Javelin Rocket
Polarized Rocket Launcher, Mjolnir Javelin Rocket

Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Small Capacitor Control Circuit II
Small Ionic Field Projector I

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

neovita
Born2Burn
Burning Raccoons Outlaws
#48 - 2015-11-15 05:53:11 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
Here's an alternative fit using Javelins. I might drop the CCC rig for an application rig or up the locking range rig (or both). The lock range is a real pita when dealing with jams.

[Garmur, Burner - Unified]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I

Polarized Rocket Launcher, Mjolnir Javelin Rocket
Polarized Rocket Launcher, Mjolnir Javelin Rocket
Polarized Rocket Launcher, Mjolnir Javelin Rocket

Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Small Capacitor Control Circuit II
Small Ionic Field Projector I



Using pretty much the same since yesterday (that damn jaguar...) Is working like a charm :)
Btw, it is not possible to copy anything in your guide, did try to copy some fittings to eft and well, ended up by clicking them together :)
neovita
Born2Burn
Burning Raccoons Outlaws
#49 - 2015-11-15 05:53:58 UTC
neovita wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Here's an alternative fit using Javelins. I might drop the CCC rig for an application rig or up the locking range rig (or both). The lock range is a real pita when dealing with jams.

[Garmur, Burner - Unified]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I

Polarized Rocket Launcher, Mjolnir Javelin Rocket
Polarized Rocket Launcher, Mjolnir Javelin Rocket
Polarized Rocket Launcher, Mjolnir Javelin Rocket

Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Small Capacitor Control Circuit II
Small Ionic Field Projector I



Using pretty much the same since yesterday (that damn jaguar...) Is working like a charm :)
Btw, it is not possible to copy anything in your guide, did try to copy some fittings to eft and well, ended up clicking them together :)

Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
#50 - 2015-11-15 07:23:27 UTC
neovita wrote:

Using pretty much the same since yesterday (that damn jaguar...) Is working like a charm :)
Btw, it is not possible to copy anything in your guide, did try to copy some fittings to eft and well, ended up by clicking them together :)

Still a bit new to google docs. I updated the link in my op and sig with a new link, maybe that will work?

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

neovita
Born2Burn
Burning Raccoons Outlaws
#51 - 2015-11-15 08:14:00 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
neovita wrote:

Using pretty much the same since yesterday (that damn jaguar...) Is working like a charm :)
Btw, it is not possible to copy anything in your guide, did try to copy some fittings to eft and well, ended up by clicking them together :)

Still a bit new to google docs. I updated the link in my op and sig with a new link, maybe that will work?


Working very good now, thank you :)
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#52 - 2015-11-15 21:53:57 UTC
neovita wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
lml don't care and can easily stay outside of burner jag wrecking hit range. The idea is hopefully for more consistency with jams at a cost of dps. Hookbill has mainly a kinetic bonus, and the overall damage is getting boosted with the December patch. That said it does have a range bonus looks like 2x MGC 2x ECM fits with polarized rockets and it gets similar range to the cheap polar rocket fit. Not sure about server tick interactions as you are right on the edge of rocket range though.


You should care and in first place COMPARE the ranges before you talk nonsence like that. You CAN'T stay out of wrecking range using your 4 Jamm fit (consider ro read the link i gave you above and at least think about the chance to hit formula). And you WON'T reach Garmur's range by only using 2x MGC. We not even started to speak about cap stability here...

Consider to take a look on both ships in EFT before you ever say things like "i don't care" to someone, who is trying to help you. You are speculating around here, most other ppl here gave both fits already a try on the testserver or at least using EFT. If speculations are more worth for you then experience, then feel free to "don't care' as much as you want and keep drawning in your own ignorance.


lml as in light missile launchers. according to eft they go 63km. Hookbill gets a 10%/lv velocity bonus which is a 50% range bonus. Garmur gets a 200% velocity bonus but it comes with -50% flight time, which comes out to a 50% range bonus. Barring server tick voodoo, similarly fit the ships should have the same range.

With lml I usually stay around 30km and I've never gotten hit at that range, the only time I remember getting hit was somewhere around 23-25km. once when testing the polarized garmur, and once with a harpy.

and experience Lol

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

neovita
Born2Burn
Burning Raccoons Outlaws
#53 - 2015-11-16 02:51:28 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
neovita wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
lml don't care and can easily stay outside of burner jag wrecking hit range. The idea is hopefully for more consistency with jams at a cost of dps. Hookbill has mainly a kinetic bonus, and the overall damage is getting boosted with the December patch. That said it does have a range bonus looks like 2x MGC 2x ECM fits with polarized rockets and it gets similar range to the cheap polar rocket fit. Not sure about server tick interactions as you are right on the edge of rocket range though.


You should care and in first place COMPARE the ranges before you talk nonsence like that. You CAN'T stay out of wrecking range using your 4 Jamm fit (consider ro read the link i gave you above and at least think about the chance to hit formula). And you WON'T reach Garmur's range by only using 2x MGC. We not even started to speak about cap stability here...

Consider to take a look on both ships in EFT before you ever say things like "i don't care" to someone, who is trying to help you. You are speculating around here, most other ppl here gave both fits already a try on the testserver or at least using EFT. If speculations are more worth for you then experience, then feel free to "don't care' as much as you want and keep drawning in your own ignorance.


lml as in light missile launchers. according to eft they go 63km. Hookbill gets a 10%/lv velocity bonus which is a 50% range bonus. Garmur gets a 200% velocity bonus but it comes with -50% flight time, which comes out to a 50% range bonus. Barring server tick voodoo, similarly fit the ships should have the same range.

With lml I usually stay around 30km and I've never gotten hit at that range, the only time I remember getting hit was somewhere around 23-25km. once when testing the polarized garmur, and once with a harpy.

and experience Lol


You should improve your math a bit, 200% range bonus with 50% malus to flight time is still 100% range bonus (NOT 50%) using simplest math on earth. Happy wasting your time using LML. And since you just dont want to test it at all in any way and just tend to keep speculating around using crappy math, i am done with your ignorrance.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#54 - 2015-11-16 03:22:25 UTC
neovita wrote:
You should improve your math a bit, 200% range bonus with 50% malus to flight time is still 100% range bonus (NOT 50%) using simplest math on earth. Happy wasting your time using LML. And since you just dont want to test it at all in any way and just tend to keep speculating around using crappy math, i am done with your ignorrance.

Regardless of missile velocity it ends up being a 50% range bonus on the Mordus Legion ships, but whatever...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#55 - 2015-11-16 03:24:29 UTC
neovita wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
neovita wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
lml don't care and can easily stay outside of burner jag wrecking hit range. The idea is hopefully for more consistency with jams at a cost of dps. Hookbill has mainly a kinetic bonus, and the overall damage is getting boosted with the December patch. That said it does have a range bonus looks like 2x MGC 2x ECM fits with polarized rockets and it gets similar range to the cheap polar rocket fit. Not sure about server tick interactions as you are right on the edge of rocket range though.


You should care and in first place COMPARE the ranges before you talk nonsence like that. You CAN'T stay out of wrecking range using your 4 Jamm fit (consider ro read the link i gave you above and at least think about the chance to hit formula). And you WON'T reach Garmur's range by only using 2x MGC. We not even started to speak about cap stability here...

Consider to take a look on both ships in EFT before you ever say things like "i don't care" to someone, who is trying to help you. You are speculating around here, most other ppl here gave both fits already a try on the testserver or at least using EFT. If speculations are more worth for you then experience, then feel free to "don't care' as much as you want and keep drawning in your own ignorance.


lml as in light missile launchers. according to eft they go 63km. Hookbill gets a 10%/lv velocity bonus which is a 50% range bonus. Garmur gets a 200% velocity bonus but it comes with -50% flight time, which comes out to a 50% range bonus. Barring server tick voodoo, similarly fit the ships should have the same range.

With lml I usually stay around 30km and I've never gotten hit at that range, the only time I remember getting hit was somewhere around 23-25km. once when testing the polarized garmur, and once with a harpy.

and experience Lol


You should improve your math a bit, 200% range bonus with 50% malus to flight time is still 100% range bonus (NOT 50%) using simplest math on earth. Happy wasting your time using LML. And since you just dont want to test it at all in any way and just tend to keep speculating around using crappy math, i am done with your ignorrance.


I don't think you get it. He isn't going to be using rockets with the Hookbill. He will be using Light Missile Launchers.

But just so we are clear, a Hookbill using polarized rocket launchers has a max range of 22km using javelin rockets.

Fit:
[Caldari Navy Hookbill, hooky]

Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Gistii A-Type 1MN Afterburner
BZ-5 Neutralizing Spatial Destabilizer ECM
BZ-5 Neutralizing Spatial Destabilizer ECM
BZ-5 Neutralizing Spatial Destabilizer ECM
BZ-5 Neutralizing Spatial Destabilizer ECM

Polarized Rocket Launcher, Scourge Javelin Rocket
Polarized Rocket Launcher, Scourge Javelin Rocket
Polarized Rocket Launcher, Scourge Javelin Rocket

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I


High-grade Snake Alpha
High-grade Snake Beta
High-grade Snake Gamma
High-grade Snake Delta
High-grade Snake Epsilon
High-grade Snake Omega
Zainou 'Deadeye' Missile Projection MP-705
Zor's Custom Navigation Hyper-Link
Zainou 'Snapshot' Rockets RD-905
Zainou 'Deadeye' Rapid Launch RL-1005

I'm using snakes to ensure my speed is faster than the Jag burner.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#56 - 2015-11-16 03:51:42 UTC
I think I'm pretty okay with my math.

(100% base flight speed + 200% bonus flight speed) * (100% base flight time minus 50% flight time) equals (base flight speed plus 50% bonus flight speed) times unchanged flight time
(1+2) * (1 - 0.5) = (1+0.5) * (1 + 0)
3 * 0.5 = 1.5

so lets use 5,000 m/s and 7.5s flight time as that is pretty close to light missile speed/flight time. Light missile flight speed is a wee bit bigger so I'm under stating it a bit here, but 5,000 is a nice round number.
in a garmur it goes 15,000 m/s and has a flight time of 3.75. 15,000m/s*3.75s = 56,250km
in a hookbill it goes 7,500m/s and has a flight time of 7.5. 7,500m/s*7.5s= 56,250km

feel free to show me some in game evidence (hell I'll take eft screenshots) that show otherwise.

I suppose I could try this kinda math:
http://i.imgur.com/aUufV.gif
http://i.imgur.com/l40YQ.gif

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#57 - 2015-11-16 21:22:24 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
I think I'm pretty okay with my math.

(100% base flight speed + 200% bonus flight speed) * (100% base flight time minus 50% flight time) equals (base flight speed plus 50% bonus flight speed) times unchanged flight time
(1+2) * (1 - 0.5) = (1+0.5) * (1 + 0)
3 * 0.5 = 1.5

so lets use 5,000 m/s and 7.5s flight time as that is pretty close to light missile speed/flight time. Light missile flight speed is a wee bit bigger so I'm under stating it a bit here, but 5,000 is a nice round number.
in a garmur it goes 15,000 m/s and has a flight time of 3.75. 15,000m/s*3.75s = 56,250km
in a hookbill it goes 7,500m/s and has a flight time of 7.5. 7,500m/s*7.5s= 56,250km

feel free to show me some in game evidence (hell I'll take eft screenshots) that show otherwise.

I suppose I could try this kinda math:
http://i.imgur.com/aUufV.gif
http://i.imgur.com/l40YQ.gif


One other thing to consider, the Garmur has a smaller targeting range than the Hookbill.
The Bigpuns
Touring New Eden
#58 - 2015-11-20 09:11:51 UTC
Just noticed an error in your blitzing guide where you state that the mach has a 4.5 au/s base warp speed: the 50% bonus is already taken into account on the stats, raising warp speed from 2 to 3, not from 3 to 4.5.

Otherwise excellent work. I personally dont blitz (too OCD on the little red things), but one of the best guides I've read on the topic. Actually, the only guide I've read on the topic. But it's still very good.

Any news on the team burner problem?
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
#59 - 2015-11-20 09:48:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
The Bigpuns wrote:
Just noticed an error in your blitzing guide where you state that the mach has a 4.5 au/s base warp speed: the 50% bonus is already taken into account on the stats, raising warp speed from 2 to 3, not from 3 to 4.5.

Otherwise excellent work. I personally dont blitz (too OCD on the little red things), but one of the best guides I've read on the topic. Actually, the only guide I've read on the topic. But it's still very good.

Any news on the team burner problem?

Huh, thanks for spotting that... where int he 7 hells did I pull 4.5 from Shocked (I'll fix when I get home)

Also no, no news yet. It's been over a week since the last feedback form CCP and the 2nd weekend. This is effecting 1/3 of all burner missions as well. Ugh

On the other hand it seems like every time they patch something these days something completely unrelated goes titsup so maybe they should take their time with this one Roll

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
#60 - 2015-11-21 23:22:18 UTC
Guide has been updated and I added in a little bit about a possible Barghest blitzer that might be very interesting though I am still skilling to properly test it. Here's the build for reference:

[Barghest, New Setup 1]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II
Missile Guidance Enhancer II
Missile Guidance Enhancer II

500MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Small Tractor Beam II

Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II

Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5

Due to how blitzing inherently isn't about dps over the long term but rather burst of a few ships/triggers needing to be killed and then moving on, a Barghest might have enough of an advantage in that area to offset the areas where it's not quite as good as a Machariel. It's possible that the Barghest might also only be better at some missions while the Machariel is better at others. The small DPS boost coming might tip the scales in certain situations.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3