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What is the best gun platform against Guristas?

Author
Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining
#21 - 2015-11-06 22:15:59 UTC
I know you're asking about missions, but have you considered incursions? They love gun platforms, pay good isk, and it can be a nice change of pace to group up with a bunch of other people. If you decide to go this route, I'd recommend a vindi, but depending on your implants/skills mach's and nightmares are also welcomed. You will have to do some traveling around if you decide to run incursions, but if you don't want the other clone to go to waste this is a viable option.
Altair Taurus
#22 - 2015-11-06 22:37:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Altair Taurus
I do not know much about Incursions. Short range Vindi brawler armed with T2 blasters and faction webs? Bling or solid T2 fit? Remote reps or strong tank?
Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining
#23 - 2015-11-06 23:26:07 UTC
https://4a03ef9473c44c4c8cd0a28f5a6bf8c75b50ff6d.googledrive.com/host/0B_tALKvH2FWaR19aVkxuRmZwTDA/WTMfittings.html

I usually fly with Warp To Me, and that is their fittings. Basically they accept anything that fits tank requirements. They prefer T2 blasters, but they'll accept meta 4 while you train for t2. They have no problem accepting solid t2 fits, but obviously prefer blinged fits. On Vindi's faction webs are definitely strongly advised.

There's logi so you just need to get high resists and large buffer tank. I definitely recommend joining the in game chat "Warp To Me Incursions" if you're interested in trying out incursions.
Altair Taurus
#24 - 2015-11-07 12:54:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Altair Taurus
Aren't Incursion fleets a primary targets for gankers?

As for linked Incursion fits I opt for Vindi but unfortunately T1/faction blasters offer pretty small range in contrary to T2 blasters with Null ammo. Well, I must train T2 hybrids first.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2015-11-07 16:25:17 UTC
AC Machariel is always good, selectable damage and glorious to fly.

However the problem with using gun ships against Guristas is the ewar. Jams cost so much time and there is **** all you can do about them unless you want to gimp your fit stacking ECCM.

If you want to use guns, move to Lanngisi and farm Angels missions in a 1200 DPS AC Mach. If you want to kill Guristas, use kinetic missiles or kinetic drones. Using guns is just idiotic, because of jams.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2015-11-07 16:29:50 UTC
Altair Taurus wrote:
Aren't Incursion fleets a primary targets for gankers?

As for linked Incursion fits I opt for Vindi but unfortunately T1/faction blasters offer pretty small range in contrary to T2 blasters with Null ammo. Well, I must train T2 hybrids first.


Warp to me doesn't require T2 guns, especially if you have a pirate hull (vindi, mach, or nightmare) with meta 4 guns (best non-faction named guns) and faction damage mods.

You won't be bothered by gankers unless you are autopiloting in an unnecessarily-expensive fit. Especially not if you travel fit. nobody is going to bring a bunch of battlecruisers or two dozen catalysts to burn down a faction battleship if you're packing under a billion in fittings.

Altair Taurus
#27 - 2015-11-07 17:26:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Altair Taurus
As I understand flying Incursions requires moving pirate BS on long distances. Do you do it in two phases: first phase - moving empty BS, second phase - moving its faction/deadspace fit in (covert ops) cloaked ship? Moreover, isn't Incursion fleet often attacked by gankers fleets after being formed?



Yes, I asked about ECCM modules here a while before. If I understand you correctly, many stacked ECCM modules are needed to overcome Gurista's jamming what and that ruins any fit. However missile/drone boats can remedy this by using FoF missiles and drones set to aggressive, correct?
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2015-11-07 18:49:00 UTC
The risk from ganking in highsec is heavily overstated and easily mitigated by being at your keyboard and not completely ********.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#29 - 2015-11-07 19:32:40 UTC
Altair Taurus wrote:
As I understand flying Incursions requires moving pirate BS on long distances. Do you do it in two phases: first phase - moving empty BS, second phase - moving its faction/deadspace fit in (covert ops) cloaked ship? Moreover, isn't Incursion fleet often attacked by gankers fleets after being formed?



Yes, I asked about ECCM modules here a while before. If I understand you correctly, many stacked ECCM modules are needed to overcome Gurista's jamming what and that ruins any fit. However missile/drone boats can remedy this by using FoF missiles and drones set to aggressive, correct?


last time I did incursions I used a travel fit to go between systems, a ship with a few 100k EHP and ~8s align (click warp turn ab on/off) is kinda hard to gank. that said my fit was on the low end, so probably not even worth it to gank. some of the setups are very blingy and there you will probably want to move some of the fittings in an alt with cov ops or blockade runner.

once you are in fleet you have logi support and most gankers aren't going to mess with that. I hear some gankers tried to smartbomb a incursion fleet, and in the resulting lag bomb the incursion runners were mostly safe and the gankers all got concorded.

many people call incursions risk free isk printing

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#30 - 2015-11-07 19:58:52 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Altair Taurus wrote:
As I understand flying Incursions requires moving pirate BS on long distances. Do you do it in two phases: first phase - moving empty BS, second phase - moving its faction/deadspace fit in (covert ops) cloaked ship? Moreover, isn't Incursion fleet often attacked by gankers fleets after being formed?



Yes, I asked about ECCM modules here a while before. If I understand you correctly, many stacked ECCM modules are needed to overcome Gurista's jamming what and that ruins any fit. However missile/drone boats can remedy this by using FoF missiles and drones set to aggressive, correct?


last time I did incursions I used a travel fit to go between systems, a ship with a few 100k EHP and ~8s align (click warp turn ab on/off) is kinda hard to gank. that said my fit was on the low end, so probably not even worth it to gank. some of the setups are very blingy and there you will probably want to move some of the fittings in an alt with cov ops or blockade runner.

once you are in fleet you have logi support and most gankers aren't going to mess with that. I hear some gankers tried to smartbomb a incursion fleet, and in the resulting lag bomb the incursion runners were mostly safe and the gankers all got concorded.

many people call incursions risk free isk printing


I use a MWD + Cloak for my travel fits.
Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining
#31 - 2015-11-07 22:17:59 UTC
Travel is the only time you're really at risk. For that you would pretty much want to fit as much tank/align as you can. Use the mwd/cloak trick and you're pretty much safe.

I've seen people try to gank incursion fleets twice. Both times they were trying to sabotage us going into a site by killing one of the logi's as we were warping in. Both times they failed horribly. A good group of logi's can easily overcome most gankings.

The rewards definitely do outweigh the risks. It's kind of like setting up a high class wormhole for isk grinding. Yes there are risks, but you mitigate them so the isk is relatively safe.
Altair Taurus
#32 - 2015-11-07 23:48:39 UTC
There are several types of Incursions. What types do you fly and how much ISK can be earned?
Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining
#33 - 2015-11-08 02:53:47 UTC
I personally run HQ's. Most groups specialize on these as they are the most profitable (short of having highly specialized people running vanguards).

I'd say with the fleet running smoothly average is about 100-150 million isk per hour, plus 21-35k LP (which can easily be converted to 1000 isk/LP, often more). Depending on how site spawns work, you can make up to 200 mil/hr (plus LP), but don't bank on those ones.

I've only ran vanguards a couple of times and we were hardly optimized for it, so I can't really comment on how well they do.
Altair Taurus
#34 - 2015-11-08 14:56:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Altair Taurus
OK, I have decided to train T2 projectile turrets and purchase Machariel for my "gunnery jump clone". I think that's best choice because I will be able to run L4 missions against most pirate factions (especially Angels with Hail L shells!) smoothly with T2 Autocannons and run Incursions with T2 Artillery. Yet skilling T2 projectile turrets will take a month.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2015-11-08 23:10:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
Altair Taurus wrote:
As I understand flying Incursions requires moving pirate BS on long distances. Do you do it in two phases: first phase - moving empty BS, second phase - moving its faction/deadspace fit in (covert ops) cloaked ship?



Never fly an unfitted ship.

Best bet is a cheap T1/T2 high EHP buffer tank with align mods as a travel fit.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#36 - 2015-11-09 02:24:57 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
I use a MWD + Cloak for my travel fits.

and that right there is an even better idea.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Altair Taurus
#37 - 2015-11-11 13:59:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Altair Taurus
Could you give me sample travel cheap fit for Machariel (huge buffer EHP omni-tank, fast align time etc.)?
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2015-11-12 20:26:07 UTC
Altair Taurus wrote:
OK, I have decided to train T2 projectile turrets and purchase Machariel for my "gunnery jump clone". I think that's best choice because I will be able to run L4 missions against most pirate factions (especially Angels with Hail L shells!) smoothly with T2 Autocannons and run Incursions with T2 Artillery. Yet skilling T2 projectile turrets will take a month.


You can get over 800 gun DPS with meta 4 guns and faction ammo (and a bit more with drones). Not quite impressive DPS but will still clear lvl 4's pretty quickly.

Hail vs angels is amazing though. Just run missions with meta 4 guns and faction ammo and learn the ship while you train T2 large autos, then enjoy that 200 DPS gain. Also spend 250-300M ISK on a 5% surgical strike and 5% large projectiles implant for another nice damage buff.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#39 - 2015-11-12 23:59:37 UTC
Altair Taurus wrote:
Could you give me sample travel cheap fit for Machariel (huge buffer EHP omni-tank, fast align time etc.)?


2x nanofibers, a sebo and combat fit for pvp. Gankers wont touch it because it will shred them.
Altair Taurus
#40 - 2015-11-14 23:16:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Altair Taurus
Mach and best +5% projectile implants acquired! My jump clone with Hail L ammo will reach over 1200 DPS / 3800 volley! Faction ammo is not cost-effective with AC Machariel in missions. I will have to move this clone to Minmatar space to be able to run missions against Angels. Well, I will train T2 projectiles in three weeks so in the meantime I must get access to level 4 agents there. Later I will take a closer look at Incursions.
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