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[December] Balance Smorgasbord

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Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#501 - 2015-11-02 14:45:56 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Reminder that energy turret cap usage is not a real bonus


It mostly isn't when you don't have a second bonus to those same guns on the damn ship. Using high cap ammo for longer can be useful but the damn gun need more than just cap usage bonus for it to be worthwhile. If it had a tracking, optimal or ROF bonus, then it could amount to something. The second bonus being armor resist is the real reason why cap bonus is so wrong. Firing your laser for longer is only useful if those laser, when fitted to this ship outperform the other options available, namely hybrid and projectiles turrets.

If laser were really better than the other 2 weapon system while having cap as the real drawback, then the bonus would be meaningful on it's own. Right now, to be worthwhile, the weapon system NEED to have another bonus on the hull.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#502 - 2015-11-02 15:53:13 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Reminder that energy turret cap usage is not a real bonus


It mostly isn't when you don't have a second bonus to those same guns on the damn ship. Using high cap ammo for longer can be useful but the damn gun need more than just cap usage bonus for it to be worthwhile. If it had a tracking, optimal or ROF bonus, then it could amount to something. The second bonus being armor resist is the real reason why cap bonus is so wrong. Firing your laser for longer is only useful if those laser, when fitted to this ship outperform the other options available, namely hybrid and projectiles turrets.

If laser were really better than the other 2 weapon system while having cap as the real drawback, then the bonus would be meaningful on it's own. Right now, to be worthwhile, the weapon system NEED to have another bonus on the hull.


Phew, I am not the only one and the Abaddon isn't on today's menu but that is what make the Maller and Abaddon such bad ships.
While we have a collection of laser-boats done right, those two and the Punisher, well they kinda don't.

And no, tanking is not a feature when you have the mobility of a moon.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Arla Sarain
#503 - 2015-11-03 01:38:51 UTC
Gibe Projectile Reload Speed bonus to the Rifter for ultimate badassitude.
Valkin Mordirc
#504 - 2015-11-03 15:35:35 UTC
elitatwo wrote:


How about a different approach? Instead of nerfing ships that used to be a joke for about decade, have them require 100+ million skillpoints to properly reflect the power they have since the two different racial trains you have to have doesn't quite do the job apperently.

And while we are crying nerfs so much and dps to much and whatever uneducated whine is popular these days, make all dps even.
The vigilant does more than 1000dps, nerf vigilant. bwaaaaahhh.



The Gila has

Similar DPS to the Vigi,

More range than Vigi

Better projection than the Vigi

A Better Tank to DPS ratio then the Vigi

Is less Cap reliant than the Vigi

The Vigi

Has better range control then the Gila


So yeah.
#DeleteTheWeak
Sotar Lojac
Elite Space Dragons
#505 - 2015-11-05 06:20:16 UTC
All I have to say about Orthrus, Gila and the Worm . I was planning on getting one of each. However, I'll wait and see what people say about them after the nerf.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#506 - 2015-11-05 19:05:48 UTC
Sotar Lojac wrote:
All I have to say about Orthrus, Gila and the Worm . I was planning on getting one of each. However, I'll wait and see what people say about them after the nerf.

Nows the best time to get them. If you go and get them now you might even get to kill a couple of AFKS with them. You won't kill anybody still paying attention though because you won't get a fight given how blatantly OP they are.

Just saying, if you chase the meta then expect a nerf.
Valkin Mordirc
#507 - 2015-11-07 04:48:55 UTC
Sotar Lojac wrote:
All I have to say about Orthrus, Gila and the Worm . I was planning on getting one of each. However, I'll wait and see what people say about them after the nerf.



If you plan on using the Gila for PVP is going to almost completely unchanged. You're not going to lose a whole bunch.


For PVE however losing that Lowslot hurts a lot more since most PVE Gila's are Passive Shield fitted.


The Worm may be hit a lot harder in a PvP role.


The Orthrus I'm guessing is going to be okay, not has powerful as it was, but it still fills it role very well.


The Barghest on the other hand is going be BAMF
#DeleteTheWeak
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#508 - 2015-11-07 16:43:04 UTC
47.5km RLML's on Orthrus, OP much??ShockedShocked

begs the question why it has range bonuses too light missiles at all really RLML's are OP they should just convert it into a medium assault launcher better tracking and range but less dps than HAM's buff HAM damage nerf its range so its not the same as torps and is actual brawl/tackle range based as its tracking implies.

Then lasers get their role back as the best range weapon system, would like too see conflag and scorch range being toned down a bit (build it into the lasers like last time) and improve the T1/faction ammo so there is less extremes and more useful in between ammo types

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#509 - 2015-11-07 16:44:09 UTC
would like too see a web strength nerf in general say 50% cap and serpentis ships web strength bonus toned down too 5% as 10% is just OP.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#510 - 2015-11-09 17:00:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Colt Blackhawk
Buff Hookbill and buff Firetail?
Fozzie I have over 500 kills with Hookbills and I can tell you these changes are *****.
Hookbill is fine atm, RFF is fine atm, slicer is fine atm.
What is not fine is that the comet is completely op. Nerf the comet and there are no changes needed for Hook and RFF.
The actual buffs to the Hook are completely OP. This tells you someone who really knows the Hook.
Nerf the total op comet and Hook+ RFF will be fine.

The Punisher changes are a joke. Total joke. Make the punisher a rocket boat.

Edit: List of frigs that really need a buff:
-Cruor
-Succubus
-Executioner
-Rifter

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#511 - 2015-11-09 21:25:51 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Reminder that energy turret cap usage is not a real bonus


It mostly isn't when you don't have a second bonus to those same guns on the damn ship. Using high cap ammo for longer can be useful but the damn gun need more than just cap usage bonus for it to be worthwhile. If it had a tracking, optimal or ROF bonus, then it could amount to something. The second bonus being armor resist is the real reason why cap bonus is so wrong. Firing your laser for longer is only useful if those laser, when fitted to this ship outperform the other options available, namely hybrid and projectiles turrets.

If laser were really better than the other 2 weapon system while having cap as the real drawback, then the bonus would be meaningful on it's own. Right now, to be worthwhile, the weapon system NEED to have another bonus on the hull.


Phew, I am not the only one and the Abaddon isn't on today's menu but that is what make the Maller and Abaddon such bad ships.
While we have a collection of laser-boats done right, those two and the Punisher, well they kinda don't.

And no, tanking is not a feature when you have the mobility of a moon.


Tanking via resist is an ability even if you are as large as a moon when under logi support and have enough EHP to survive an alpha strike. It makes for a good "line" ship but the abbadon is a ship with 1 bonus unless your fit need laser to work (what niche do large laser have?) AND said laser also happen to give you concerning cap issue. If you don't NEED the lasers, then you can solve your cap issue in a more easy way by swapping to any other turret system because they use less cap or none at all anyway.

All ship bonus are a feature if you find a legit way to use them. The issue is cap use is not usable when you only have un-bonused guns and other type of guns can do the job with low or no cap use.
Skir Skor
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#512 - 2015-11-10 00:04:07 UTC
Tis a sad day when an AC Punisher out dps the Rifter + Slasher
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#513 - 2015-11-10 01:32:51 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Tanking via resist is an ability even if you are as large as a moon when under logi support and have enough EHP to survive an alpha strike. It makes for a good "line" ship but the abbadon is a ship with 1 bonus unless your fit need laser to work (what niche do large laser have?) AND said laser also happen to give you concerning cap issue. If you don't NEED the lasers, then you can solve your cap issue in a more easy way by swapping to any other turret system because they use less cap or none at all anyway.

All ship bonus are a feature if you find a legit way to use them. The issue is cap use is not usable when you only have un-bonused guns and other type of guns can do the job with low or no cap use.


The Abaddon sucks because faction BS just get cheaper and cheaper and it's at the point where you should just pony up the extra 150m and get a Navy Apoc. Range bonus functions as a damage bonus, it's got most of the resist bonus baked into having much higher hull/shield/armor stats, it doesn't have fitting problems, it takes 66% damage from bombers, extra low slot, etc etc.
Shalashaska Adam
Snakes and Lasers
#514 - 2015-11-10 04:02:50 UTC
Punisher changes are just fine. It shouldn't be a rocket boat, nor does it need a 3rd midslot.

It can perform it's niche role very well already, and these changes strengthen that.

It doesn't need to be a flexible solo boat, there are plenty of those already.

The changes enable many new fitting possibilities that are unique to the ship.
Plofkip Arji
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#515 - 2015-11-10 15:52:54 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

As we keep working and incorporate feedback, it's very possible that some of these changes may be adjusted or removed, or that more could be added. This is also not the complete list of balance changes coming this Winter, keep an eye on this forum section for the latest updates.


Any chance of seeing an update to the Corax in this patch?
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#516 - 2015-11-10 18:36:47 UTC
Plofkip Arji wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

As we keep working and incorporate feedback, it's very possible that some of these changes may be adjusted or removed, or that more could be added. This is also not the complete list of balance changes coming this Winter, keep an eye on this forum section for the latest updates.


Any chance of seeing an update to the Corax in this patch?


it's never going to happen
Paladin Genghis Khanid
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#517 - 2015-11-10 21:41:02 UTC
Shalashaska Adam wrote:
The changes enable many new fitting possibilities that are unique to the ship.


Like?
Shalashaska Adam
Snakes and Lasers
#518 - 2015-11-10 22:21:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalashaska Adam
Paladin Genghis Khanid wrote:
Like?


Dual 400 plate, dual eanm, tripple trimark, plus a repper, for a cruisers worth of armor ehp with a cap stable repair.

On a 37 sig frig with a decent 850 ms afterburner speed.

Can heavy tackle cruisers and larger like no other T1 frig, all for about 5 mil.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#519 - 2015-11-11 04:42:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Rift
Shalashaska Adam wrote:
Paladin Genghis Khanid wrote:
Like?


Dual 400 plate, dual eanm, tripple trimark, plus a repper, for a cruisers worth of armor ehp with a cap stable repair.

On a 37 sig frig with a decent 850 ms afterburner speed.

Can heavy tackle cruisers and larger like no other T1 frig, all for about 5 mil.



with its 17k ehp ability to tank 63dps and 100dps with terrible range and 820m/s nothing cruiser size is going to care.
Shalashaska Adam
Snakes and Lasers
#520 - 2015-11-11 05:21:10 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:

with its 17k ehp ability to tank 63dps and 100dps with terrible range and 820m/s nothing cruiser size is going to care.


Cruiser wont have to care for long, as it will be dead when the dps lands.

What does it matter what its own range and dps is, its the heavy tackle, its not solo.

Its performance as a heavy tackler beats anything else out there in that price range.

19k of buffer with fleet boosts is insane by itself, works perfectly as it is now.

Add on the slow regen of a stable repper and your adding another 300 ehp per 4.5 sec.

120 dps of it's own isn't shabby at all for a T1 frig that's put 99% of its fitting space into tank.