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[December] Balance Smorgasbord

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Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#521 - 2015-11-11 05:34:33 UTC
Shalashaska Adam wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:

with its 17k ehp ability to tank 63dps and 100dps with terrible range and 820m/s nothing cruiser size is going to care.


Cruiser wont have to care for long, as it will be dead when the dps lands.

What does it matter what its own range and dps is, its the heavy tackle, its not solo.

Its performance as a heavy tackler beats anything else out there in that price range.

19k of buffer with fleet boosts is insane by itself, works perfectly as it is now.

Add on the slow regen of a stable repper and your adding another 300 ehp per 4.5 sec.

120 dps of it's own isn't shabby at all for a T1 frig that's put 99% of its fitting space into tank.



if you are going with a gang why not bring a real tackle ship. that doesnt move like a brick.
Blitz Hacker
Bored Bastards
Intrepid Crossing
#522 - 2015-11-11 05:42:48 UTC
Gila nerf is pointless.. it makes the dps on the gila subpar and something of what the drake currently is today.. a unbreakable tank boat with semi junk dps.

Imo the Gila rebalance needs to leave the slot layouts alone and remove the 500% hit point boost to the medium drones.. just give it a 5x damage boost.. not hp boost.

leaves the ship as a mid level heavy tanked pve ship, but viable in pvp. At the moment attacking a gila's drones is pointless and suicidal as it is. The ship is very imbalanced in pvp with the huge tank, good damage application. and the drones have too many hps and the drone bay is too big. I believe you can fit 8 (4 flights of medium drones, 2 each flight) Attacking the drones atm is pointless you will be long dead before you get through 3 flights nevermind 4.

losing the hp buff on the drones would mitigate alot of the damage in pvp, and make it about balanced or on par with other pirate faction cruisers of it's class.

My thoughts;
Not yours.
Shalashaska Adam
Snakes and Lasers
#523 - 2015-11-11 05:46:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalashaska Adam
Lady Rift wrote:

if you are going with a gang why not bring a real tackle ship. that doesnt move like a brick.


Because the gang might just be 2-3 people, and you want a cheap tackle that can take enormous punishment (pun intended), for a tiny throwaway price. The grid might not be a single cruiser that's easy to kite, it might have other **** on it that's going to catch you, and being able to just pin down the primary while sustaining a solid beating for a minute or more is invaluable.

It doesn't have to have high speed, it just needs to lock onto your average cruiser/bc/bs, and orbit it while being tickled by drones for all eternity. A mwd cruiser with its mwd shut off isn't going to be outrunning your 800 m/s, whether you're webbed or not, nor is your blaster-tier range a problem when your just orbiting it at 500m anyway.

It is a "real tackle ship", its a budget heavy tackle that can do the job immensely well for its tiny price.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#524 - 2015-11-11 06:02:16 UTC
Shalashaska Adam wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:

if you are going with a gang why not bring a real tackle ship. that doesnt move like a brick.


Because the gang might just be 2-3 people, and you want a cheap tackle that can take enormous punishment (pun intended), for a tiny throwaway price. The grid might not be a single cruiser that's easy to kite, it might have other **** on it that's going to catch you, and being able to just pin down the primary while sustaining a solid beating for a minute or more is invaluable.

It doesn't have to have high speed, it just needs to lock onto your average cruiser/bc/bs, and orbit it while being tickled by drones for all eternity. A mwd cruiser with its mwd shut off isn't going to be outrunning your 800 m/s, whether you're webbed or not, nor is your blaster-tier range a problem when your just orbiting it at 500m anyway.

It is a "real tackle ship", its a budget heavy tackle that can do the job immensely well for its tiny price.




its 9km scram range that slow boats at 800m/s. Any mwd cruiser wont we caught by this. This can't even keep up with some ab cruisers.
Shalashaska Adam
Snakes and Lasers
#525 - 2015-11-11 06:52:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalashaska Adam
Lady Rift wrote:
its 9km scram range that slow boats at 800m/s. Any mwd cruiser wont we caught by this. This can't even keep up with some ab cruisers.


They get caught.

Point is, that once they are, they find it very difficult to take the tackle out, so you usually have all day. The solid capacitor makes it surprisingly resistant to neuting also, and to frigs/dessies landing that are friendly to the tackled cruiser.

It's a fantastic heavy tackle that's flexible enough to hold large or small targets and to survive on grids full of red long enough to make ten times its monies worth.

Other frigs will do other things better, especially speed of course, but nothing comes close to the survivability.

That's what "heavy tackle" means to me anyway. It's not a kiter, its an ab, scram, close orbit, mega plated heavy tackle.

When ya can tank so much that a caracal with rapid lights and 3 bcu's, firing into your lowest resist, cant down you before going into it's forever reload, then ya heavy tackling well. Ya can kill the target with a single rail cormorant at that point.

For 5mil, that aint bad.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#526 - 2015-11-11 13:57:22 UTC
Shalashaska Adam wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
its 9km scram range that slow boats at 800m/s. Any mwd cruiser wont we caught by this. This can't even keep up with some ab cruisers.


They get caught.

Point is, that once they are, they find it very difficult to take the tackle out, so you usually have all day. The solid capacitor makes it surprisingly resistant to neuting also, and to frigs/dessies landing that are friendly to the tackled cruiser.

It's a fantastic heavy tackle that's flexible enough to hold large or small targets and to survive on grids full of red long enough to make ten times its monies worth.

Other frigs will do other things better, especially speed of course, but nothing comes close to the survivability.

That's what "heavy tackle" means to me anyway. It's not a kiter, its an ab, scram, close orbit, mega plated heavy tackle.

When ya can tank so much that a caracal with rapid lights and 3 bcu's, firing into your lowest resist, cant down you before going into it's forever reload, then ya heavy tackling well. Ya can kill the target with a single rail cormorant at that point.

For 5mil, that aint bad.



by the time it catches anything there gang will already be on field and so will your gang.

That caracal will be cruising at 2-3 times your speed. You have to rely on luck for everything you tackle.
Idame Isqua
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#527 - 2015-11-12 15:18:40 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:


by the time it catches anything there gang will already be on field and so will your gang.

That caracal will be cruising at 2-3 times your speed. You have to rely on luck for everything you tackle.


I prefer my pilots to have skill.
DeadDuck
No.Mercy
Triumvirate.
#528 - 2015-11-12 17:26:28 UTC
When we will be seeing these new changes in Singularity ?
Shalashaska Adam
Snakes and Lasers
#529 - 2015-11-12 18:07:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalashaska Adam
Lady Rift wrote:

by the time it catches anything there gang will already be on field and so will your gang.

That caracal will be cruising at 2-3 times your speed. You have to rely on luck for everything you tackle.


Getting a slow ship consistently in range of a faster ship to apply tackle is part of the gameplay, whether it happens through manual piloting on the grid, bouncing between celestials to get a superior warp in, or getting the target to come to you. It all simply depends on what part of your job you want to be easier. With the punisher, getting the tackle of an evasive opponent is harder, but holding the target for a consistent period of time once successful is what it can do better than anything else its price.

If you are on the offensive then there is no real luck. Ya make it work or try something else.

Nor is it "bad luck" whenever you get beat, you get beat fair and square as well.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#530 - 2015-11-12 18:35:37 UTC
Shalashaska Adam wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:

by the time it catches anything there gang will already be on field and so will your gang.

That caracal will be cruising at 2-3 times your speed. You have to rely on luck for everything you tackle.


Getting a slow ship consistently in range of a faster ship to apply tackle is part of the gameplay, whether it happens through manual piloting on the grid, bouncing between celestials to get a superior warp in, or getting the target to come to you. It all simply depends on what part of your job you want to be easier. With the punisher, getting the tackle of an evasive opponent is harder, but holding the target for a consistent period of time once successful is what it can do better than anything else its price.

If you are on the offensive then there is no real luck. Ya make it work or try something else.

Nor is it "bad luck" whenever you get beat, you get beat fair and square as well.




its bad luck like its bad luck when you get caught in a sub 2s align ship. or good luck when you catch a sub 2s ship.

And it does require luck to get that warp in and luck that all the tom follery doesn't have the faster ship and his small gang just pass you by.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#531 - 2015-11-12 18:39:33 UTC
Idame Isqua wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:


by the time it catches anything there gang will already be on field and so will your gang.

That caracal will be cruising at 2-3 times your speed. You have to rely on luck for everything you tackle.


I prefer my pilots to have skill.



give your tackler 15 extra mil and have him fit a caracal. more dps, tank and you can even match the speed of that punisher with an afterburner and a single overdrive.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#532 - 2015-11-12 20:05:55 UTC
punisher looks good to me: oversize ab and scram with blasters or autocannons for brawling. mwd+disruptor with double nano in lows for kiting. laser tracking is a problem though and with no web i think it really needs a tracking bonus to make people choose lasers.
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#533 - 2015-11-12 20:26:11 UTC
Okay I tested the Hook and RFF again.
Hook really really does not need that buff. Firetail deserves it.
Nerf the comet damn hell^^

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.

BABARR
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#534 - 2015-11-13 00:12:42 UTC  |  Edited by: BABARR
Orthus nerf, yes, cause it was "a bit" OP.
The question is : is it the right way to nerf it? maybe -1 low or less speed better, and ppl have to sacrifice speed for more damage.
Or maybe -1 launcher, which mean a nerf for long range traditional fit, but more versatility for exotic fit.
Whith your nerf the orthus is still a wtf epic machine fast as hell and able to tackle, but whith a really crap DPS. So it's just a lachesis nano.

Bhargest up, yes, cause it was a piece of ****.
But don't think it's going to change anything, it's still a piece of ****, beacause battleship warp slower than a industrial ship and got less scan res than a badger. Why call that a BATTLE-ship when you have a fuckign epic mass for nothing? It's warp slow, it's hard to apply dps, ect...
zahg
PARABELUM-Project
#535 - 2015-11-13 09:13:15 UTC  |  Edited by: zahg
Thank you ccp for those good propositions.
Indeed, i'am very please with those changes on paper.

AMARR FRIGATES
While some are not happy about the punisher, those changes are perfect for it to get its own rôle for fleet or gang tank/dps platform. The tormentor does the brawling rôle well enough for the amarr frigs. In fact, concerning that last ship, it does it welle nough for it not needing a buff.

HOOKBILL
Some changes will give that ship a breath, so props for bringing them in. Don't forget the real problem of that ship is the fitting room beeing awefull as some peoples said earlier on that forum.

GILA/ ORTHRUS/WORM
Very constructive changes here but for the orthrus. When you will nerf it again, and you will, i'am 100% sure you'll come back on that nerf you plan today. Then, it will be a waste of energy and intentions that could have been avoided. For the orthrus, a speed nerf or maybe the removal of a mid slot would appear more constructive. We need those ships allowing solo pvp, but they need to have downsides making the piloting harder, not just the dps so low that they become useless. What make the orthrus so performant as well is the fact they are from those ships most flown by experienced players.

BARGHEST/ BATTLESHIPS IN GENERAL
Here is my issue with that game. The reason that made me quit it so often with anger. While your Barghest proposal is good for now, the battleships are in fact near to useless, PVP wise, for a long time now. I see those changes about frigs and overpowered pirate cruisers, that can all solo kill any passive or active battleship (with enough time/ammo). The battleships are not only underperforming on all regards, they are just so frustrating to fly. I have more fun flying an industrial ship seriosuly...at least it warps at a decent speed...Cutting down BS's and BC's (at some extends) like you did, removed a huge part of the pvp gameplay out of eve. A part that is one of the reason us veterans are leaving it little by little. I sometime have the feeling I paid an abonment from 2008 to this day in the sole hope of flying perfectly a tormentor at the end, which is efficient already from day 1 in eve witht he current newbie skills. Those OP frigates I have to turn to while letting my Battleships in station, had cost me 3000$ of abonment, between this char and alts, for very little gain pvp experience wise. I wan't to have fun. Frigates are fun. But they are not ALL of the fun.
Rahknai
Improvised Tactics
#536 - 2015-11-13 12:28:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Rahknai
Looking good, and especially nice to see the Punisher receiving a significant buff! Its going to be epic for small gang now!! Big smile
Mysa
EVIL PLANKTON
#537 - 2015-11-14 08:09:28 UTC
twit brent wrote:
So disheartened by sacrilege. I thought it was going to finally get its slot layout fixed :(


Troll
Lara Sunji
Doomheim
#538 - 2015-11-14 09:54:10 UTC
lol no svipul nerf .. The most used ship in the entire friggin game.
DeadDuck
No.Mercy
Triumvirate.
#539 - 2015-11-14 12:56:49 UTC
Lara Sunji wrote:
lol no svipul nerf .. The most used ship in the entire friggin game.


What do you think the Focus Group Tactical Destroyers exists for? You think the Svipul and the Confessor gonna stay as they are ?
Flyinghotpocket
Doomheim
#540 - 2015-11-14 20:13:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Flyinghotpocket
zahg wrote:
Thank you ccp for those good propositions.
Indeed, i'am very please with those changes on paper.

AMARR FRIGATES
While some are not happy about the punisher, those changes are perfect for it to get its own rôle for fleet or gang tank/dps platform. The tormentor does the brawling rôle well enough for the amarr frigs. In fact, concerning that last ship, it does it welle nough for it not needing a buff.

you mean the punisher becoming roleLESS. with the loss of its utility high it will only be brawling. it wont have any roll except the roll the tormentor already does. and it will have 1 less mid so it can suck at brawling MORE.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro