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What is CCP giving to The Mittani?

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mech res
Fwaction Warfare Corporwation
#121 - 2015-11-04 19:55:06 UTC
RoAnnon wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
RoAnnon wrote:
After reading (mostly) through the replies, am I understanding the arguments correctly that someone is saying the reward of being allowed to go on a roam with The Mittani for a certain level of backing to the kickstarter is RMT? Can someone explain that deranged logic to me? Or straighten out my understanding if that's not what's being said.

I can technically understand the concern about his corpse being offered, but as the corpse doesn't have an actual use in game mechanics or provide any bonus, wtf really cares?


EvEiseasy got prevented from offering pvp advice for money, no physical in game items, just interaction with a player (not even in game interaction). Why is going on a roam with Mittani for $200 different ?

To stay in theme with your answer: Because being allowed to join a roam fleet and getting in-game advice on how to fly are not the same at all.

So any actual explanations?


CCP did not say it was the fact they were giving advice that was the problem. CCP Guard said this:

"Selling anything that uses the EVE Intellectual Property for real life cash is against the rules. EVE related services can, however, be sold for ISK. I'm not going to comment on whether that will always be the case, but it is today. Just letting everyone know."

So if mittani wants to go on a roam with someone through EVE, or duel someone in EVE, and charge isk he can. But he can't do that for real life cash.
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#122 - 2015-11-04 19:57:28 UTC
RoAnnon wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
RoAnnon wrote:
After reading (mostly) through the replies, am I understanding the arguments correctly that someone is saying the reward of being allowed to go on a roam with The Mittani for a certain level of backing to the kickstarter is RMT? Can someone explain that deranged logic to me? Or straighten out my understanding if that's not what's being said.

I can technically understand the concern about his corpse being offered, but as the corpse doesn't have an actual use in game mechanics or provide any bonus, wtf really cares?


EvEiseasy got prevented from offering pvp advice for money, no physical in game items, just interaction with a player (not even in game interaction). Why is going on a roam with Mittani for $200 different ?

To stay in theme with your answer: Because being allowed to join a roam fleet and getting in-game advice on how to fly are not the same at all.

So any actual explanations?


So any corp can now offer roams for cash ? (if that is the case, why has the option been removed ?)
Johnny Riko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2015-11-04 19:58:16 UTC
From the looks of it they have turned a blind eye to mittens RWT.

I wanna join up. I think I got what it takes to be a Citizen.
RoAnnon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#124 - 2015-11-04 20:03:31 UTC  |  Edited by: RoAnnon
mech res wrote:
CCP did not say it was the fact they were giving advice that was the problem. CCP Guard said this:

"Selling anything that uses the EVE Intellectual Property for real life cash is against the rules. EVE related services can, however, be sold for ISK. I'm not going to comment on whether that will always be the case, but it is today. Just letting everyone know."

So if mittani wants to go on a roam with someone through EVE, or duel someone in EVE, and charge isk he can. But he can't do that for real life cash.


This is getting close to the RL legal differentiation between what is or is not prostitution. If someone pays another person for engaging in sex, that's prostitution which is illegal, unless they're being paid to have it with someone else while a camera is recording it. Then it's not prostitution, it's pornography which is legal.

It can be argued that the money is not being given to The Mittani in exchange for the roam, it is being given to back the book that is being created, and the roam is one of several rewards being given away for a certain level of backing.

To say the roam is being sold is disingenuous at best.

So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter.

Broadcast4Reps

Eve Vegas 2015 Pub Crawl Group 9

Houston EVE Meet
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#125 - 2015-11-04 20:06:42 UTC
I don't much care one way or the other about this topic.

But on a more personal note, anyone who repeatedly says "My people" in interviews (As in,"I'll have my people look at it".) is a complete douche.

Listen to the Mittanigate tapes for many examples of this kind of douchery. Anyone that gives money to a confirmed lying arrogant douche deserves the disappointment they will get from it.

Mr Epeen Cool
mech res
Fwaction Warfare Corporwation
#126 - 2015-11-04 20:10:15 UTC
RoAnnon wrote:
mech res wrote:
CCP did not say it was the fact they were giving advice that was the problem. CCP Guard said this:

"Selling anything that uses the EVE Intellectual Property for real life cash is against the rules. EVE related services can, however, be sold for ISK. I'm not going to comment on whether that will always be the case, but it is today. Just letting everyone know."

So if mittani wants to go on a roam with someone through EVE, or duel someone in EVE, and charge isk he can. But he can't do that for real life cash.


This is getting close to the RL legal differentiation between what is or is not prostitution. If someone pays another person for engaging in sex, that's prostitution which is illegal, unless they're being paid to have it with someone else while a camera is recording it. Then it's not prostitution, it's pornography which is legal.

It can be argued that the money is not being given to The Mittani in exchange for the roam, it is being given to back the book that is being created, and the roam is one of several rewards being given away for a certain level of backing.

To say the roam is being sold is disingenuous at best.


I think that is a far stretch. Mittani very well may be getting a cut of any profits this book makes. I would like to know if ccp is also a partner to the profits.

But to CCP's and the Mittani's credit, I think the rmt point is now moot. It looks like he removed the 3 dubious offers. 1)corpse 2) roam and 3) duel.
CrewSandwich
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#127 - 2015-11-04 20:11:36 UTC
If you nerds bothered to take your heads out of the sand for one minute and check out the page you would see nothing conncected to the eve online client is being offered anymore.
RoAnnon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#128 - 2015-11-04 20:15:29 UTC
mech res wrote:
But to CCP's and the Mittani's credit, I think the rmt point is now moot. It looks like he removed the 3 dubious offers. 1)corpse 2) roam and 3) duel.

Probably less of a headache to stop splitting metaphorical hairs and stop all the speculation, argument and debate about where the line is and whether or not it's been crossed.

So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter.

Broadcast4Reps

Eve Vegas 2015 Pub Crawl Group 9

Houston EVE Meet
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#129 - 2015-11-04 20:19:48 UTC
CrewSandwich wrote:
If you nerds bothered to take your heads out of the sand for one minute and check out the page you would see nothing conncected to the eve online client is being offered anymore.


The post above you actually just pointed out as much, perhaps it's you needs to remove your head from the sand for a minute ? The questions still stands, did CCP say these offers were ok and then change their minds after they were brought to the wider attention of playerbase ? Or did TMM overstep the mark of what they were allowed to offer and remove them because CCP thought it broke the EULA ?

Removing the offers doesn't make the question go away.
mech res
Fwaction Warfare Corporwation
#130 - 2015-11-04 20:32:06 UTC  |  Edited by: mech res
Personally, now that they took down the rmt items I don't care who found out when. It sounds like everyone acted reasonably since they did take them down.

My bigger concern is what involvement does ccp have with this propaganda book and themittani.com. I think only a fool thinks alliance propaganda doesn't effect the game. CCP's "backing" or "partnering" with alliance leaders in the production of that propaganda should be handled transparently or not done at all.
Aoife Fraoch
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#131 - 2015-11-04 20:32:29 UTC
Portmanteau wrote:
CrewSandwich wrote:
If you nerds bothered to take your heads out of the sand for one minute and check out the page you would see nothing conncected to the eve online client is being offered anymore.


The post above you actually just pointed out as much, perhaps it's you needs to remove your head from the sand for a minute ? The questions still stands, did CCP say these offers were ok and then change their minds after they were brought to the wider attention of playerbase ? Or did TMM overstep the mark of what they were allowed to offer and remove them because CCP thought it broke the EULA ?

Removing the offers doesn't make the question go away.


It kind of does because no one is obliged to publicly communicate the reasons for that decision, leaving the topic firmly in the realms of wild flailing speculation.
CrewSandwich
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#132 - 2015-11-04 20:40:53 UTC
You mean if I pay a subscription for a service to a private company they dont need to open up their books to me and meet all of my demands????

I for one am shocked
mech res
Fwaction Warfare Corporwation
#133 - 2015-11-04 20:48:46 UTC  |  Edited by: mech res
CrewSandwich wrote:
You mean if I pay a subscription for a service to a private company they dont need to open up their books to me and meet all of my demands????

I for one am shocked



No one says CCP needs to do anything. I am just saying if they are partnering up with an alliance leader to publish that alliance leader's propaganda then they should be transparent about the arrangement. There is a difference between what you should do and what you need to do.
CrewSandwich
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#134 - 2015-11-04 20:52:59 UTC  |  Edited by: CrewSandwich
Here is 100% transparency of the arrangement. Another eve book was not on the radar, in the works or making or plans of ccp. Certainly not one different from like a Templar One featuring real player stories and real ingame events.

Somebody comes along with the means and wherewithal to make such a thing happen and even wrangle a real author willing to do it. And devote his own time and energy to make it happen.

If you dont like it dont back it plain and simple, if you want another eve book for the collection, something about actual players and real ingame things then back it.
mech res
Fwaction Warfare Corporwation
#135 - 2015-11-04 21:04:26 UTC  |  Edited by: mech res
CrewSandwich wrote:
Here is 100% transparency of the arrangement. Another eve book was not on the radar, in the works or making or plans of ccp. Certainly not one different from like a Templar One featuring real player stories and real ingame events.
.....


Even if we assume your speculation is true it does not describe the arrangement between CCP and the mittani at all. You just gave a bunch of speculation. That is because the arrangement is not transparent and we are forced to speculate.
Aoife Fraoch
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#136 - 2015-11-04 21:09:20 UTC
CrewSandwich wrote:
Here is 100% transparency of the arrangement. Another eve book was not on the radar, in the works or making or plans of ccp. Certainly not one different from like a Templar One featuring real player stories and real ingame events.

Somebody comes along with the means and wherewithal to make such a thing happen and even wrangle a real author willing to do it. And devote his own time and energy to make it happen.

If you dont like it dont back it plain and simple, if you want another eve book for the collection, something about actual players and real ingame things then back it.


Pretty much this. Someone pitched an idea to CCP that benefits CCP while the other party takes on the financial risk. CCP has provided support for another project in a similar way before and very reasonably are doing it again. As customers we can make a choice on if we do or do not spend our money. Sure we can discuss the stretch goals or how the funding for the project is handled in Kickstarter, but frankly we do not have any real information and nor should we. Not many businesses conduct all their affairs in public.
mech res
Fwaction Warfare Corporwation
#137 - 2015-11-04 21:16:17 UTC
Aoife Fraoch wrote:
CrewSandwich wrote:
Here is 100% transparency of the arrangement. Another eve book was not on the radar, in the works or making or plans of ccp. Certainly not one different from like a Templar One featuring real player stories and real ingame events.

Somebody comes along with the means and wherewithal to make such a thing happen and even wrangle a real author willing to do it. And devote his own time and energy to make it happen.

If you dont like it dont back it plain and simple, if you want another eve book for the collection, something about actual players and real ingame things then back it.


Pretty much this. Someone pitched an idea to CCP that benefits CCP while the other party takes on the financial risk. CCP has provided support for another project in a similar way before and very reasonably are doing it again. As customers we can make a choice on if we do or do not spend our money. Sure we can discuss the stretch goals or how the funding for the project is handled in Kickstarter, but frankly we do not have any real information and nor should we. Not many businesses conduct all their affairs in public.



Do you have a source for any of what you say?
Is ccp getting a cut of the profits from this book?
If they are, then they have an financial interest in promoting the characters in that book right?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#138 - 2015-11-04 22:06:32 UTC
mech res wrote:

My bigger concern is what involvement does ccp have with this propaganda book and themittani.com. I think only a fool thinks alliance propaganda doesn't effect the game. CCP's "backing" or "partnering" with alliance leaders in the production of that propaganda should be handled transparently or not done at all.


You asked that and got your answer.
CrewSandwich
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#139 - 2015-11-04 22:18:50 UTC
mech res wrote:
CrewSandwich wrote:
Here is 100% transparency of the arrangement. Another eve book was not on the radar, in the works or making or plans of ccp. Certainly not one different from like a Templar One featuring real player stories and real ingame events.
.....


Even if we assume your speculation is true it does not describe the arrangement between CCP and the mittani at all. You just gave a bunch of speculation. That is because the arrangement is not transparent and we are forced to speculate.


Haha ok maybe you'll take ccp's word for it, probably not but here ya go champ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0bnrkwsdOA
Aoife Fraoch
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#140 - 2015-11-04 22:40:23 UTC
mech res wrote:
Aoife Fraoch wrote:
CrewSandwich wrote:
Here is 100% transparency of the arrangement. Another eve book was not on the radar, in the works or making or plans of ccp. Certainly not one different from like a Templar One featuring real player stories and real ingame events.

Somebody comes along with the means and wherewithal to make such a thing happen and even wrangle a real author willing to do it. And devote his own time and energy to make it happen.

If you dont like it dont back it plain and simple, if you want another eve book for the collection, something about actual players and real ingame things then back it.


Pretty much this. Someone pitched an idea to CCP that benefits CCP while the other party takes on the financial risk. CCP has provided support for another project in a similar way before and very reasonably are doing it again. As customers we can make a choice on if we do or do not spend our money. Sure we can discuss the stretch goals or how the funding for the project is handled in Kickstarter, but frankly we do not have any real information and nor should we. Not many businesses conduct all their affairs in public.



Do you have a source for any of what you say?
Is ccp getting a cut of the profits from this book?
If they are, then they have an financial interest in promoting the characters in that book right?


A source for what? I am not the one begging the question and implying wildly.