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Dev blog: Building your Citadel, one block at a time

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Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#441 - 2015-11-01 22:49:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Gabriel Karade
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Gabriel Karade wrote:


Stupid forums were giving me quote errors, so i deleted the whole damn mess...but you guys should understand this answer....




Well, POS's aren't being removed until all 8 types of structure are in the game and we have 100% overlap of functionality.

That beign said, do we know how much a XL assembly arrays costs? They can certainly dock there as they are built there

What about a XL drilling machine, we have been told we can reprocess them, so they should be able to dock.

Do we know how much any of these structures cost?

Citadels are the biggest, badest and most expensive, with good reason, they are your home, but to think they are the only one of the 8 that can dock a SC/Titan MIGHT be strecthing it as we have no idea. So until we have a better picture, i think you are crying over the possibility in 2 years someone might spill milk
See, that was a perfectly reasonable post.... until you had to troll....

.....no, I'm am not 'crying' (seriously, grow up FFS...!), I am pointing out there is a gap in what is being proposed (which may or may not be filled by other structures).

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
Mercur Fighter
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#442 - 2015-11-02 01:27:54 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Iski Zuki DaSen wrote:
the amount of salvage in need for t2 rig for citadels and especialy for xl size one is ridiculous
also no trade goods are in need for citadel production

either fix the loot tabble of the salvage (the drop rate and the percentage should be higher and with better analogy )
or simply add few trade goods in rig making and cut the slavage needs by alote



The salvage needs are awesome. Will be a serious shot in the arm for explorers and should get more people out running the sites.


I concur
Iski Zuki DaSen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#443 - 2015-11-02 11:03:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Iski Zuki DaSen
Mercur Fighter wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Iski Zuki DaSen wrote:
the amount of salvage in need for t2 rig for citadels and especialy for xl size one is ridiculous
also no trade goods are in need for citadel production

either fix the loot tabble of the salvage (the drop rate and the percentage should be higher and with better analogy )
or simply add few trade goods in rig making and cut the slavage needs by alote



The salvage needs are awesome. Will be a serious shot in the arm for explorers and should get more people out running the sites.


I concur


dont get me wrong i dont say the amount is ridiculous for t1 rigs
nor the proportion in need of each t1 salvage

the t2 is messed up

but look at the spreadsheet CCP gave us

run 100 -200 relic sites( yes in null-sec space) gother 4-5 bill in loot from those sites and then come back in with your results
and tell me if the proportion looted is somewhere near the proportion those t2 rigs will need

the problem will not be in gothering the Enchanted ward console/ single crystall superalloy / intact shield emiter
the problem will be in the other matterials such as the one that you need 450.000 of them (they are rearly used and so they are cheap) but simply the sites doesnt drop them in the correct ratio even if we calculate the other rigs needs in them which is lower ...still the amount of those cheap t2 slavage is RIDICULOUS

which is why i said they either need to fix the proportion in the loot tables or simply cut the needs of those by alote and to keep things interesting add trade goods , which they are a nice isk sink cause you only buy those from npc stations( the serius quantities you might need )

PS
BB t2 rigs in an cheap price for ships but thats an other story
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#444 - 2015-11-02 12:16:55 UTC
Gabriel Karade wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Gabriel Karade wrote:


Stupid forums were giving me quote errors, so i deleted the whole damn mess...but you guys should understand this answer....




Well, POS's aren't being removed until all 8 types of structure are in the game and we have 100% overlap of functionality.

That beign said, do we know how much a XL assembly arrays costs? They can certainly dock there as they are built there

What about a XL drilling machine, we have been told we can reprocess them, so they should be able to dock.

Do we know how much any of these structures cost?

Citadels are the biggest, badest and most expensive, with good reason, they are your home, but to think they are the only one of the 8 that can dock a SC/Titan MIGHT be strecthing it as we have no idea. So until we have a better picture, i think you are crying over the possibility in 2 years someone might spill milk
See, that was a perfectly reasonable post.... until you had to troll....

.....no, I'm am not 'crying' (seriously, grow up FFS...!), I am pointing out there is a gap in what is being proposed (which may or may not be filled by other structures).



Hmm, maybe lost in translation

"crying over spilled milk" is a phrase used to describe complaining about something that isn't even real or may not become real

It doesn't have to do with the physical act of crying or whining

My point still stands, we have only seen the first of 8 structures, which admittedly is the biggest, baddest and most expensive

Lets wait and see what the other 7 are, how much they cost and what can dock there before we jump to more conclusions about how much it will cost to dock a super
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#445 - 2015-11-02 13:21:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Rift
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Gabriel Karade wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Gabriel Karade wrote:


Stupid forums were giving me quote errors, so i deleted the whole damn mess...but you guys should understand this answer....




Well, POS's aren't being removed until all 8 types of structure are in the game and we have 100% overlap of functionality.

That beign said, do we know how much a XL assembly arrays costs? They can certainly dock there as they are built there

What about a XL drilling machine, we have been told we can reprocess them, so they should be able to dock.

Do we know how much any of these structures cost?

Citadels are the biggest, badest and most expensive, with good reason, they are your home, but to think they are the only one of the 8 that can dock a SC/Titan MIGHT be strecthing it as we have no idea. So until we have a better picture, i think you are crying over the possibility in 2 years someone might spill milk
See, that was a perfectly reasonable post.... until you had to troll....

.....no, I'm am not 'crying' (seriously, grow up FFS...!), I am pointing out there is a gap in what is being proposed (which may or may not be filled by other structures).



Hmm, maybe lost in translation

"crying over spilled milk" is a phrase used to describe complaining about something that isn't even real or may not become real

It doesn't have to do with the physical act of crying or whining

My point still stands, we have only seen the first of 8 structures, which admittedly is the biggest, baddest and most expensive

Lets wait and see what the other 7 are, how much they cost and what can dock there before we jump to more conclusions about how much it will cost to dock a super


the idiom crying over spilt milk actually means to be unhappy about what can't be undone.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#446 - 2015-11-02 13:47:24 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Gabriel Karade wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Gabriel Karade wrote:


Stupid forums were giving me quote errors, so i deleted the whole damn mess...but you guys should understand this answer....




Well, POS's aren't being removed until all 8 types of structure are in the game and we have 100% overlap of functionality.

That beign said, do we know how much a XL assembly arrays costs? They can certainly dock there as they are built there

What about a XL drilling machine, we have been told we can reprocess them, so they should be able to dock.

Do we know how much any of these structures cost?

Citadels are the biggest, badest and most expensive, with good reason, they are your home, but to think they are the only one of the 8 that can dock a SC/Titan MIGHT be strecthing it as we have no idea. So until we have a better picture, i think you are crying over the possibility in 2 years someone might spill milk
See, that was a perfectly reasonable post.... until you had to troll....

.....no, I'm am not 'crying' (seriously, grow up FFS...!), I am pointing out there is a gap in what is being proposed (which may or may not be filled by other structures).



Hmm, maybe lost in translation

"crying over spilled milk" is a phrase used to describe complaining about something that isn't even real or may not become real

It doesn't have to do with the physical act of crying or whining

My point still stands, we have only seen the first of 8 structures, which admittedly is the biggest, baddest and most expensive

Lets wait and see what the other 7 are, how much they cost and what can dock there before we jump to more conclusions about how much it will cost to dock a super


the idiom crying over spilt milk actually means to be unhappy about what can't be undone.


Funnily enough, it still works even under the correct meaning.
Hexatron Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#447 - 2015-11-02 14:16:23 UTC
Appears like they got a lot "bigger". Thats cool, when even a "medium" one is as large as current stations and outposts are ;)

What about the "what is allowed to dock there"? Is is still that anything capital sized has to dock at a large? What about Freighters and Rorquals? Are there exceptions for them for the mediums? Or also need a large for those?

May make future mining outposts a lot more expensive and harder to set up.
Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#448 - 2015-11-02 18:11:06 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Gabriel Karade wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Gabriel Karade wrote:


Stupid forums were giving me quote errors, so i deleted the whole damn mess...but you guys should understand this answer....




Well, POS's aren't being removed until all 8 types of structure are in the game and we have 100% overlap of functionality.

That beign said, do we know how much a XL assembly arrays costs? They can certainly dock there as they are built there

What about a XL drilling machine, we have been told we can reprocess them, so they should be able to dock.

Do we know how much any of these structures cost?

Citadels are the biggest, badest and most expensive, with good reason, they are your home, but to think they are the only one of the 8 that can dock a SC/Titan MIGHT be strecthing it as we have no idea. So until we have a better picture, i think you are crying over the possibility in 2 years someone might spill milk
See, that was a perfectly reasonable post.... until you had to troll....

.....no, I'm am not 'crying' (seriously, grow up FFS...!), I am pointing out there is a gap in what is being proposed (which may or may not be filled by other structures).



Hmm, maybe lost in translation

"crying over spilled milk" is a phrase used to describe complaining about something that isn't even real or may not become real

It doesn't have to do with the physical act of crying or whining

My point still stands, we have only seen the first of 8 structures, which admittedly is the biggest, baddest and most expensive

Lets wait and see what the other 7 are, how much they cost and what can dock there before we jump to more conclusions about how much it will cost to dock a super
point taken, no worries Smile

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#449 - 2015-11-02 21:31:52 UTC
Hexatron Ormand wrote:
......................
What about the "what is allowed to dock there"? Is is still that anything capital sized has to dock at a large? What about Freighters and Rorquals? Are there exceptions for them for the mediums? Or also need a large for those?..............


I believe this has been answered...

- Rorquals, like other normal capitals can dock at a Large.

- Freighters and Orcas can dock at Mediums (exception rule like now in HS) - as can, I assume, JFs

Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
Circumstantial Evidence
#450 - 2015-11-03 00:42:23 UTC
If Outpost + upgrades reimbursement isk is at stake, major alliances may have impetus to engage in the largest conquest campaign of recent history.

CCP could require a minimum length of ownership, to help determine the rightful ("most powerful") owner, to pay off. The executor holding it for the most number of days... over a month? Three months?

CCP could reimburse outposts and upgrades as nearest-equivalent items, instead of isk.
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#451 - 2015-11-03 20:55:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Iowa Banshee
""If you leave your active ship the tether will not protect the ship left behind and will tether to your capsule.""

So - its nothing like a POS shield

......and in a WH with a M. we are still forced into sitting in specialty role ships like Rorqual/Carrier that we really only want to sit in when we are actually using them because apparently even though we have moored (sorry - tethered) them we still can't hop out of them and go down the pub for a pint.

Also... Do you have any idea how long it takes to warp a Rorqual to six POCOs to pick up Pi... (sic)
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#452 - 2015-11-03 21:07:54 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:
""If you leave your active ship the tether will not protect the ship left behind and will tether to your capsule.""

So - its nothing like a POS shield

......and in a WH with a M. we are still forced into sitting in specialty role ships like Rorqual/Carrier that we really only want to sit in when we are actually using them because apparently even though we have moored (sorry - tethered) them we still can't hop out of them and go down the pub for a pint.

Also... Do you have any idea how long it takes to warp a Rorqual to six POCOs to pick up Pi... (sic)


Well then just dock and take a sensible ship. If you have money for a Rorqual, you should have money for a large one.
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#453 - 2015-11-03 21:31:10 UTC
Owen Levanth wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
""If you leave your active ship the tether will not protect the ship left behind and will tether to your capsule.""

So - its nothing like a POS shield

......and in a WH with a M. we are still forced into sitting in specialty role ships like Rorqual/Carrier that we really only want to sit in when we are actually using them because apparently even though we have moored (sorry - tethered) them we still can't hop out of them and go down the pub for a pint.

Also... Do you have any idea how long it takes to warp a Rorqual to six POCOs to pick up Pi... (sic)


Well then just dock and take a sensible ship. If you have money for a Rorqual, you should have money for a large one.



So...
Your suggestion is that I train one of my toons up to build & fly a freighter (because I'm guessing the previous occupants I bought the Roqual off for next to nothing won't want to come back to build me a Freighter)..... and I can't train the Rorqual pilot because if I do there will be no-one to sit in it when the Freighter is built.
Now that I have 2 pilots sitting in ships they cannot get out of while I train up constructing L Citadels.
Then I can build and launch a Large Citadel I cannot afford to pay for and don't have enough corp members to defend JUST to make up for not being able to hop out of a ship in relative safety of a shield once a week to run pi

Sure feels like I'm getting shafted....
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#454 - 2015-11-03 21:58:44 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Owen Levanth wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
""If you leave your active ship the tether will not protect the ship left behind and will tether to your capsule.""

So - its nothing like a POS shield

......and in a WH with a M. we are still forced into sitting in specialty role ships like Rorqual/Carrier that we really only want to sit in when we are actually using them because apparently even though we have moored (sorry - tethered) them we still can't hop out of them and go down the pub for a pint.

Also... Do you have any idea how long it takes to warp a Rorqual to six POCOs to pick up Pi... (sic)


Well then just dock and take a sensible ship. If you have money for a Rorqual, you should have money for a large one.



So...
Your suggestion is that I train one of my toons up to build & fly a freighter (because I'm guessing the previous occupants I bought the Roqual off for next to nothing won't want to come back to build me a Freighter)..... and I can't train the Rorqual pilot because if I do there will be no-one to sit in it when the Freighter is built.
Now that I have 2 pilots sitting in ships they cannot get out of while I train up constructing L Citadels.
Then I can build and launch a Large Citadel I cannot afford to pay for and don't have enough corp members to defend JUST to make up for not being able to hop out of a ship in relative safety of a shield once a week to run pi

Sure feels like I'm getting shafted....



Well if you can't afford all this, then use an Orca instead of Rorquals. Overextending yourself like this isn't necessary.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#455 - 2015-11-03 22:07:00 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:


So...
Your suggestion is that I train one of my toons up to build & fly a freighter (because I'm guessing the previous occupants I bought the Roqual off for next to nothing won't want to come back to build me a Freighter)..... and I can't train the Rorqual pilot because if I do there will be no-one to sit in it when the Freighter is built.
Now that I have 2 pilots sitting in ships they cannot get out of while I train up constructing L Citadels.
Then I can build and launch a Large Citadel I cannot afford to pay for and don't have enough corp members to defend JUST to make up for not being able to hop out of a ship in relative safety of a shield once a week to run pi

Sure feels like I'm getting shafted....


If you can fly a Rorqual, you can get into a Freighter in like a week or two. Since ACS V is the main hard part to train for Freighters. You can use the Rorqual pilot for the Freighter since you only need to be in the freighter for 5 minutes to launch the L Citadel. Just get corp mates to sit there with the Rorqual locked in that window of opportunity, since you want protection for your freighter online anyway.
The Freighter can dock in the M Citadel.

If you can't afford a L Citadel, then you shouldn't be in a Rorqual to begin with.
If you don't have enough corp members to defend for 7 hours a week, you shouldn't be using Capitals.
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#456 - 2015-11-03 22:15:12 UTC
Owen Levanth wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Owen Levanth wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
""If you leave your active ship the tether will not protect the ship left behind and will tether to your capsule.""

So - its nothing like a POS shield

......and in a WH with a M. we are still forced into sitting in specialty role ships like Rorqual/Carrier that we really only want to sit in when we are actually using them because apparently even though we have moored (sorry - tethered) them we still can't hop out of them and go down the pub for a pint.

Also... Do you have any idea how long it takes to warp a Rorqual to six POCOs to pick up Pi... (sic)


Well then just dock and take a sensible ship. If you have money for a Rorqual, you should have money for a large one.



So...
Your suggestion is that I train one of my toons up to build & fly a freighter (because I'm guessing the previous occupants I bought the Roqual off for next to nothing won't want to come back to build me a Freighter)..... and I can't train the Rorqual pilot because if I do there will be no-one to sit in it when the Freighter is built.
Now that I have 2 pilots sitting in ships they cannot get out of while I train up constructing L Citadels.
Then I can build and launch a Large Citadel I cannot afford to pay for and don't have enough corp members to defend JUST to make up for not being able to hop out of a ship in relative safety of a shield once a week to run pi

Sure feels like I'm getting shafted....



Well if you can't afford all this, then use an Orca instead of Rorquals. Overextending yourself like this isn't necessary.


I'm now at the sarcastic stage .....I see ... the problem is the Rorqual I own ... Not the tether ... Silly me.. I shall explode the Ship as soon as the POS becomes redundant.... I will suggest the same to others in WH space and maybe follow up with a suggestion about moving to Null
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#457 - 2015-11-03 22:26:07 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Owen Levanth wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Owen Levanth wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
""If you leave your active ship the tether will not protect the ship left behind and will tether to your capsule.""

So - its nothing like a POS shield

......and in a WH with a M. we are still forced into sitting in specialty role ships like Rorqual/Carrier that we really only want to sit in when we are actually using them because apparently even though we have moored (sorry - tethered) them we still can't hop out of them and go down the pub for a pint.

Also... Do you have any idea how long it takes to warp a Rorqual to six POCOs to pick up Pi... (sic)


Well then just dock and take a sensible ship. If you have money for a Rorqual, you should have money for a large one.



So...
Your suggestion is that I train one of my toons up to build & fly a freighter (because I'm guessing the previous occupants I bought the Roqual off for next to nothing won't want to come back to build me a Freighter)..... and I can't train the Rorqual pilot because if I do there will be no-one to sit in it when the Freighter is built.
Now that I have 2 pilots sitting in ships they cannot get out of while I train up constructing L Citadels.
Then I can build and launch a Large Citadel I cannot afford to pay for and don't have enough corp members to defend JUST to make up for not being able to hop out of a ship in relative safety of a shield once a week to run pi

Sure feels like I'm getting shafted....



Well if you can't afford all this, then use an Orca instead of Rorquals. Overextending yourself like this isn't necessary.


I'm now at the sarcastic stage .....I see ... the problem is the Rorqual I own ... Not the tether ... Silly me.. I shall explode the Ship as soon as the POS becomes redundant.... I will suggest the same to others in WH space and maybe follow up with a suggestion about moving to Null


You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#458 - 2015-11-03 23:38:54 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:

I'm now at the sarcastic stage .....I see ... the problem is the Rorqual I own ... Not the tether ... Silly me.. I shall explode the Ship as soon as the POS becomes redundant.... I will suggest the same to others in WH space and maybe follow up with a suggestion about moving to Null

You do know your POS will stay existing till AFTER all the new structures come in right?
This process is likely to take at least a year, more like two years.

Even I could make the isk solo in that time, and I'm terrible at making isk.
JTK Fotheringham
Ducks in Outer Space
#459 - 2015-11-04 12:23:47 UTC  |  Edited by: JTK Fotheringham
Any further forward with the situation for low class wormhole corps?

Large citadels = freighter deployment - fair enough. (accepting the volume change to rule out orcas)

Can we get some detail about where large citadels can be constructed - can they be constructed in current POS facilities? Will a new medium Assembly structure be able to build a large structure?
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#460 - 2015-11-04 16:20:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Iowa Banshee
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:

I'm now at the sarcastic stage .....I see ... the problem is the Rorqual I own ... Not the tether ... Silly me.. I shall explode the Ship as soon as the POS becomes redundant.... I will suggest the same to others in WH space and maybe follow up with a suggestion about moving to Null

You do know your POS will stay existing till AFTER all the new structures come in right?
This process is likely to take at least a year, more like two years.

Even I could make the isk solo in that time, and I'm terrible at making isk.


Rorqual/Carrier - It does not matter I am trying to highlight an aspect of gameplay these Citadels are supposed to replace but fail at - namely the protection afforded by an active force-field bubble.

As it stands if you leave a pilotless Ship at an unmanned POS with an active force-field it has a high degree of safety.
Leaving an unpiloted ship at an unmanned Citadel is the same as parking it in space - In fact it's worse because at least you have to scan it down if it is floating in space.