These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev blog: Building your Citadel, one block at a time

First post First post
Author
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#421 - 2015-11-01 11:44:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
Gabriel Karade wrote:
Stop being obtuse (I'm sorry but falling back on the 'crying' line proves you are just trolling...) they won't cost 70 Bn, they will cost multiples of 70 Bn when factoring in base hull, BPC and rig costs.

That's not a problem for larger groups, but considering currently that functionality is provided by a 250m isk POS with an 800m isk structure, that is a massive 'deal' for smaller groups.

They (XL-SMAs) were amended to provide functionality that is now being removed, apparently by omission rather than intent. I would like CCPs perspective on this, not that of some twit hiding behind an alt.

Roll

You mean those rigs and modules we already have prices for?
That don't cost multiples of 70 Billion?
Those rigs and modules right?

I'm not being obtuse, we have actual numbers for them, if you T2 every single rig and fit the most expensive stuff you can, it will still cost less than 140 Billion, and you don't need a single rig or service module to dock a Titan.
And the functionality of a Citadel is vast amounts more than a XL SMA. And can be anchored anywhere also.
That 250M Pos with 800m structure docked...1 Titan, at huge risk of corp theft. & Remind me what the long term fuel costs are, like oh, for a year, since you can't just take it down 2 seconds after docking the titan.
That Citadel docks as many as you want, with no risk of corp theft unless you want to put them in the corp office.

Hell, you can dock in SOMEONE ELSES XL Citadel if they give you docking rights based on what we currently know. And the worst they can do to you is cause your assets to be relocated to the nearest NPC station. So this supposed 'small corp' (That can afford more expensive titans but not a Citadel) doesn't even need to buy a Citadel. They just need to share one with another group. Hey, reasons for groups to band together over a Citadel and share the costs, look at that emergent gameplay possibility which doesn't involve corp theft risk as a result.

Also I'm sorry a several year old character not in an NPC corp isn't enough for you :P But I really think you need to get over your ego and your whine here.
Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#422 - 2015-11-01 11:54:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Gabriel Karade
Long term fuel costs are 6bn per year, so still nothing compared to the cost of having to setup a 70bn based hull + BPC + Rigs XL Citadel. Oh and the corp theft issue is trivial to resolve by the way...

Sorry, but if you are not an alt, you are not a stakeholder in this, so you really don't understand the issues...

Edit: Let me spell it out for you - this 'locks-in' pilots who otherwise would be able to temporarily take a 'step outside' to do other things. It's a terrible change to game mechanics (more boredom), which I really can't believe is intentional given XL-SMA's were made available to all to provide that functionality at a reasonable cost.

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#423 - 2015-11-01 11:59:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
Gabriel Karade wrote:
Long term fuel cost are 6bn per year, so still nothing compared to the cost of having to setup a 70bn based hull + BPC + Rigs XL Citadel. Oh and the corp theft issue is trivial to resolve by the way...

Sorry, but if you are not an alt, you are not a stakeholder in this, so you really don't understand the issues...

So a single Titan requires 7 billion a year to maintain in a POS.
So... a Citadel is only the equivalent to 10 Titan's. For one year. Assuming none of the POS get destroyed and the titan killed while it's in storage.

Your own maths here says it's not an unreasonable cost.
As soon as one titan gets killed in storage, the Citadel is the cheaper option.
As soon as you have several titans, the Citadel is the long term cheaper option.

So yes, I think I have a pretty good handle on the issues involved, and you sure aren't making any case otherwise.
And Titan owner or not, storage of Titans affects everyone in EVE. Trying to pretend like only Titan owners are affected is silly.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#424 - 2015-11-01 12:12:33 UTC
Please tell me where you're parking a supercap in an XLSMA. It's... for statistical purposes. Yep.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#425 - 2015-11-01 12:45:45 UTC
Querns wrote:
Please tell me where you're parking a supercap in an XLSMA. It's... for statistical purposes. Yep.
In Amamake, in an un-fuelled tower...

Next stupid comment please.

Roll

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293

Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#426 - 2015-11-01 12:47:10 UTC
Gabriel Karade wrote:
Querns wrote:
Please tell me where you're parking a supercap in an XLSMA. It's... for statistical purposes. Yep.
In Amamake, in an un-fuelled tower...

Next stupid comment please.

Roll

Despite the jape, it's a valid point -- who the hell would be stupid enough to park a 20 billion isk (plus) autism chariot in an XLSMA?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#427 - 2015-11-01 12:53:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Gabriel Karade
Querns wrote:
Gabriel Karade wrote:
Querns wrote:
Please tell me where you're parking a supercap in an XLSMA. It's... for statistical purposes. Yep.
In Amamake, in an un-fuelled tower...

Next stupid comment please.

Roll

Despite the jape, it's a valid point -- who the hell would be stupid enough to park a 20 billion isk (plus) autism chariot in an XLSMA?
Plenty of people, it's not rocket science to manage the risks - some people get caught out (e.g. the example I linked earlier).

Edit: I would suggest that, given a large percentage of XL-SMAs killed are empty, that many people know how to risk manage. Of course, there are the odd few who go away for long periods of time/die at the keyboard e.t.c and so periodically those sort of 'spectaculars' will show up...

(was that Avatar really Sort Dragon's?)

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293

Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#428 - 2015-11-01 12:59:06 UTC
Gabriel Karade wrote:
Querns wrote:
Gabriel Karade wrote:
Querns wrote:
Please tell me where you're parking a supercap in an XLSMA. It's... for statistical purposes. Yep.
In Amamake, in an un-fuelled tower...

Next stupid comment please.

Roll

Despite the jape, it's a valid point -- who the hell would be stupid enough to park a 20 billion isk (plus) autism chariot in an XLSMA?
Plenty of people, it's not rocket science to manage the risks - some people get caught out (e.g. the example I linked earlier).

The risk can be managed, but it's a stupid risk -- why not just log off inside an otherwise nondescript POS? Planting an XLSMA down puts a target on your stuff.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#429 - 2015-11-01 13:02:55 UTC
Querns wrote:
Gabriel Karade wrote:
Querns wrote:
Gabriel Karade wrote:
Querns wrote:
Please tell me where you're parking a supercap in an XLSMA. It's... for statistical purposes. Yep.
In Amamake, in an un-fuelled tower...

Next stupid comment please.

Roll

Despite the jape, it's a valid point -- who the hell would be stupid enough to park a 20 billion isk (plus) autism chariot in an XLSMA?
Plenty of people, it's not rocket science to manage the risks - some people get caught out (e.g. the example I linked earlier).

The risk can be managed, but it's a stupid risk -- why not just log off inside an otherwise nondescript POS? Planting an XLSMA down puts a target on your stuff.
You have to consider it against the reward of being able to step outside the coffin for a short period of time to do fun stuff - this is a game afterall.

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293

Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#430 - 2015-11-01 13:14:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Gabriel Karade
Next question:

Can you use a Jump Portal Generator while tethered? (both covert and big brother flavours). Also what are the tethering limitations (numbers of ships) ?

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293

Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#431 - 2015-11-01 13:33:42 UTC
Gabriel Karade wrote:
You have to consider it against the reward of being able to step outside the coffin for a short period of time to do fun stuff - this is a game afterall.

I guess they don't have alts where you live.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#432 - 2015-11-01 13:58:49 UTC
Querns wrote:
Gabriel Karade wrote:
You have to consider it against the reward of being able to step outside the coffin for a short period of time to do fun stuff - this is a game afterall.

I guess they don't have alts where you live.
Which is yet another crappy game mechanic, and also undermined by the tethering concept; you eject to switch out to 'holding alt', ship is no longer is tethered and therefore vulnerable.... as opposed to being able to safely transfer pilots inside the comfort of a password protected starbase forcefield....

Tethering should at the bare minimum remain applied to unmanned ships to keep in line with existing mechanics.

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293

Firvain
Wildly Inappropriate
Wildly Inappropriate.
#433 - 2015-11-01 15:14:02 UTC
Gabriel Karade wrote:
Querns wrote:
Gabriel Karade wrote:
You have to consider it against the reward of being able to step outside the coffin for a short period of time to do fun stuff - this is a game afterall.

I guess they don't have alts where you live.
Which is yet another crappy game mechanic, and also undermined by the tethering concept; you eject to switch out to 'holding alt', ship is no longer is tethered and therefore vulnerable.... as opposed to being able to safely transfer pilots inside the comfort of a password protected starbase forcefield....

Tethering should at the bare minimum remain applied to unmanned ships to keep in line with existing mechanics.


Thats why you dock in your shiny new citadel and trade it directly...

Cant wait for citadels to trade titans, I cant count the number of titans that have left the "safety" of my pos when i handed them over to my buyer on their own
Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#434 - 2015-11-01 15:26:32 UTC
Firvain wrote:
Gabriel Karade wrote:
Querns wrote:
Gabriel Karade wrote:
You have to consider it against the reward of being able to step outside the coffin for a short period of time to do fun stuff - this is a game afterall.

I guess they don't have alts where you live.
Which is yet another crappy game mechanic, and also undermined by the tethering concept; you eject to switch out to 'holding alt', ship is no longer is tethered and therefore vulnerable.... as opposed to being able to safely transfer pilots inside the comfort of a password protected starbase forcefield....

Tethering should at the bare minimum remain applied to unmanned ships to keep in line with existing mechanics.


Thats why you dock in your shiny new citadel and trade it directly...

Cant wait for citadels to trade titans, I cant count the number of titans that have left the "safety" of my pos when i handed them over to my buyer on their own
Yes, at approximately 400 times the cost of what it requires now.

That's not going to be in issue for the likes of yourself (you guys will no doubt have more XL citadels than you know what to do with...), but that's a hell of a change for everyone else not in a large group.

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293

Iski Zuki DaSen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#435 - 2015-11-01 17:52:44 UTC
the amount of salvage in need for t2 rig for citadels and especialy for xl size one is ridiculous
also no trade goods are in need for citadel production

either fix the loot tabble of the salvage (the drop rate and the percentage should be higher and with better analogy )
or simply add few trade goods in rig making and cut the slavage needs by alote

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#436 - 2015-11-01 18:30:14 UTC
Iski Zuki DaSen wrote:
the amount of salvage in need for t2 rig for citadels and especialy for xl size one is ridiculous
also no trade goods are in need for citadel production

either fix the loot tabble of the salvage (the drop rate and the percentage should be higher and with better analogy )
or simply add few trade goods in rig making and cut the slavage needs by alote



The salvage needs are awesome. Will be a serious shot in the arm for explorers and should get more people out running the sites.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Eodp Ellecon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#437 - 2015-11-01 20:26:42 UTC
As consideration given to "I Feel Safe" / 'relocate my stuff' as we go about building Citadels and destroying player dropped stations (with no word on NPC conquerables yet)

There is the matter of max item limitation of Item Hangers at 1000.

If someone loses a Constellations worth of assets the move could easily exceed 1000 items since...

1. Simply adding things to hanger doesn't stack
2. BPCs don't stack at all
3. Station containers won't repackage until it has been vacant for 30 days.
4. It's possible with station container collapse to far exceed 1000 items

Typical null loot variety can exceed 300
BP collections can number hundreds
Materiel for an Industrial character going from Moon goo thru Alliance Fleet supplier can far exceed 1000 items.

5. Contract system currently limited to 200.


Cannibal0n
Lone Wolves Mining
EZ. Street
#438 - 2015-11-01 21:37:08 UTC
I'm sooooo happy that all of this planning and work is going into a feature approximately 10 percent (maybe) of the Eve user base will be able to use. Although the trickle down effect is admirable, it just seems those who can throw around the billions needed to construct a citadel aren't the ones that need a reason to come back to or stay in the game. Bravo!!!!
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#439 - 2015-11-01 21:52:31 UTC
Gabriel Karade wrote:


Stupid forums were giving me quote errors, so i deleted the whole damn mess...but you guys should understand this answer....




Well, POS's aren't being removed until all 8 types of structure are in the game and we have 100% overlap of functionality.

That beign said, do we know how much a XL assembly arrays costs? They can certainly dock there as they are built there

What about a XL drilling machine, we have been told we can reprocess them, so they should be able to dock.

Do we know how much any of these structures cost?

Citadels are the biggest, badest and most expensive, with good reason, they are your home, but to think they are the only one of the 8 that can dock a SC/Titan MIGHT be strecthing it as we have no idea. So until we have a better picture, i think you are crying over the possibility in 2 years someone might spill milk
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#440 - 2015-11-01 21:54:18 UTC
Iski Zuki DaSen wrote:
the amount of salvage in need for t2 rig for citadels and especialy for xl size one is ridiculous
also no trade goods are in need for citadel production

either fix the loot tabble of the salvage (the drop rate and the percentage should be higher and with better analogy )
or simply add few trade goods in rig making and cut the slavage needs by alote




Quite a few people have been hording salvage for years

There is plenty of supply there