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Dev blog: Building your Citadel, one block at a time

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Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#261 - 2015-10-27 21:58:19 UTC
Balthizarr wrote:
Are there any plans to finally make walking in stations possible with these new citadels, seeing as were now getting these new massive buildings we can dock with and call home????



When you dock, you are still in space

overview is gone, citadel services appears, but you see space, just like you did in your ship

There is no "Station" to walk in
Karash Amerius
The Seven Shadows
Scotch And Tea.
#262 - 2015-10-27 22:00:11 UTC
This is more of a thematic question...one I really don't expect a solid answer to, but it will be important once things are implemented.

Scale.

Right now, the system sizes...planet and moon diameters, and even NPC stations are laughably out of scale for how they compare to ships. You just need to zoom out completely to notice it. How are Citadels with their huge size going to compound this visual problem?

Some of the prelim artwork I am looking at will dwarf a lot of background celestials...or at the very least, continue to break the immersion of Eve.

Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#263 - 2015-10-27 22:02:31 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:

the issue is there can be upwards of 2000 citadels in a single system, do you really want 2000 items on your overview? I don't even want that many in probe results screen, but that is better than waiting for overview to load.

Maybe i don't understand you question fully.

If you are asking about cloaked, you get little to no intel cloaked, you will have to uncloak and scan


You have got it backwards.

I DON'T want hostile to be able to warp to my Citadel (using overview or scan window) without any real effort.

If that means i need to put a mod/rig on my citadel, so be it... As a wormhole I would love it it went further and i could hide my pos from d-scan but i doubt ccp would do anything that cool. Blink

In case you are not experienced how wormholes/pos scouting works; we can currently gather intel without decloaking so to take this away would be a bad move IMO.



Listen, i don't have a dog in this fight, i just don't care

I am explaining the way it is currently being developed, of course it could change

If you don't like it, don't **** on the messenger, contact your CSM and convey how bad it is
Malakai Asamov
Van Diemen's Demise
Northern Coalition.
#264 - 2015-10-27 22:06:58 UTC
Bit early but what's the ball park for Citdael DPS? Should it be enough to break a Force Auxiliaries local tank? Cause at that point your welping alot of caps to take a citadel...

Also can we apply ewar to citadels?
Homer Simpson Amatin
Blank-Space
Northern Coalition.
#265 - 2015-10-27 22:31:13 UTC
What would happen to any EXISTING station parts that anyone may happen to have? will they get re-named and still be useful or will they get removed from the game?
Same question fro any copies for station component BPC's ?
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#266 - 2015-10-27 22:34:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:

the issue is there can be upwards of 2000 citadels in a single system, do you really want 2000 items on your overview?I don't even want that many in probe results screen, but that is better than waiting for overview to load.

Maybe i don't understand you question fully.

If you are asking about cloaked, you get little to no intel cloaked, you will have to uncloak and scan


You have got it backwards.

I DON'T want hostile to be able to warp to my Citadel (using overview or scan window) without any real effort.

If that means i need to put a mod/rig on my citadel, so be it... As a wormhole I would love it it went further and i could hide my pos from d-scan but i doubt ccp would do anything that cool. Blink

In case you are not experienced how wormholes/pos scouting works; we can currently gather intel without decloaking so to take this away would be a bad move IMO.



Listen, i don't have a dog in this fight, i just don't care

I am explaining the way it is currently being developed, of course it could change

If you don't like it, don't **** on the messenger, contact your CSM and convey how bad it is


Dude what are you talking about? I'm not having a go at you i'm explaining my stance to you because you indicated you didn't get where I was coming from.

I also though we wanted the same thing after reading the highlighted parts of your posed... I'm so confused Straight

Anyway it doesn't matter.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
#267 - 2015-10-27 22:34:21 UTC
Querns wrote:
Industry job costs actively remove the isk spent from the game. Crius added a fairly significant isk sink in this form.


I stand corrected. guess I didn't get the memo X
Cheeky to ask but anyone got a link?

Also regarding the number of citadels a person can put up at a time, will there be restrictions?
We all know titans were supposed to be rare so what is stopping anyone from spamming single systems with hundreds of citadels?
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#268 - 2015-10-27 22:43:41 UTC
Terranid Meester wrote:
Querns wrote:
Industry job costs actively remove the isk spent from the game. Crius added a fairly significant isk sink in this form.


I stand corrected. guess I didn't get the memo X
Cheeky to ask but anyone got a link?

Also regarding the number of citadels a person can put up at a time, will there be restrictions?
We all know titans were supposed to be rare so what is stopping anyone from spamming single systems with hundreds of citadels?



Welcome to Crius July 2014

job install costs

There are several 100+ page threadnaughts on it from over a year ago

Google -> that way
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#269 - 2015-10-27 22:52:32 UTC
Terranid Meester wrote:
Querns wrote:
Industry job costs actively remove the isk spent from the game. Crius added a fairly significant isk sink in this form.


I stand corrected. guess I didn't get the memo X
Cheeky to ask but anyone got a link?

Also regarding the number of citadels a person can put up at a time, will there be restrictions?
We all know titans were supposed to be rare so what is stopping anyone from spamming single systems with hundreds of citadels?

Man, you must not have done any manufacturing in the last 18 months.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Balthizarr
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#270 - 2015-10-27 22:54:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Balthizarr
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Balthizarr wrote:
Are there any plans to finally make walking in stations possible with these new citadels, seeing as were now getting these new massive buildings we can dock with and call home????



When you dock, you are still in space

overview is gone, citadel services appears, but you see space, just like you did in your ship

There is no "Station" to walk in


I know how the citadels are going to work as of now, my question was are there any plans to make these citadels as I described ie dockable like stations and there for making it a possibility to walk around inside them!

These are going to be MASSIVE floating stations, so not letting you walk around them one day making a use for the character we created SO LONG AGO, would be as pointless as having the planets you will never be able to land on that other similar games will allow you to do!

Plus think how cool a killmail would be if you kill a citadel with 100's of players inside!
Circumstantial Evidence
#271 - 2015-10-27 23:04:14 UTC
Balthizarr wrote:
These are going to be MASSIVE floating stations, so not letting you walk around them one day...
WIS has to be left for a future year and/or decade, when CCP has the funds they'd need to create detailed interior environments, with things to do inside, all without sacrificing ongoing development of the spaceship game. It probably needs to be a separate game, an expansion to Dust / Legion. EVE is spaceships.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#272 - 2015-10-27 23:10:20 UTC
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
Balthizarr wrote:
These are going to be MASSIVE floating stations, so not letting you walk around them one day...
WIS has to be left for a future year and/or decade, when CCP has the funds they'd need to create detailed interior environments, with things to do inside, all without sacrificing ongoing development of the spaceship game. It probably needs to be a separate game, an expansion to Dust / Legion. EVE is spaceships.

More it has a complete lack of compelling game play reasons to be done.
Not a single thing people have suggested for it actually adds to gameplay, just pure fluff or in one or two cases pure griefing.
Circumstantial Evidence
#273 - 2015-10-27 23:26:22 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
Balthizarr wrote:
These are going to be MASSIVE floating stations, so not letting you walk around them one day...
WIS has to be left for a future year and/or decade, when CCP has the funds they'd need to create detailed interior environments, with things to do inside, all without sacrificing ongoing development of the spaceship game. It probably needs to be a separate game, an expansion to Dust / Legion. EVE is spaceships.

More it has a complete lack of compelling game play reasons to be done.
Not a single thing people have suggested for it actually adds to gameplay, just pure fluff or in one or two cases pure griefing.
I read a planned idea about a supplement to exploration mechanics. You would enter a mysterious asteroid / abandoned station, wander around, find mysterious objects - perform mini-games on them and/or take loot back to your ship.
Obil Que
Star Explorers
Solis Tenebris
#274 - 2015-10-27 23:34:41 UTC
Karash Amerius wrote:
This is more of a thematic question...one I really don't expect a solid answer to, but it will be important once things are implemented.

Scale.

Right now, the system sizes...planet and moon diameters, and even NPC stations are laughably out of scale for how they compare to ships. You just need to zoom out completely to notice it. How are Citadels with their huge size going to compound this visual problem?

Some of the prelim artwork I am looking at will dwarf a lot of background celestials...or at the very least, continue to break the immersion of Eve.


Watch this. It's not EVE, it's your camera

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OttpSwaATl4
Garrett Howe
New Eden Shipbuilding
#275 - 2015-10-28 01:37:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Garrett Howe
This may be an obvious question, but Citadels are replacing Outposts, not Starbases, correct?

EDIT: Nevermind, I understand better after rereading comments/blogs.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#276 - 2015-10-28 02:11:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
Obil Que wrote:
Sir SmashAlot wrote:
Does the citadel need to be manned by a player for the weapons / defenses to work?

Will groups in High Sec (During War), Low, WH, and, Null be forced to have station alts sitting in these things 23/7 in order to blap anyone on grid?


Yes. This has been the case since the first devblog
You don't have to man them 23/7, only during your vulnerable windows (3 hours / wk for a M)

I assume this time is extended if the citadel is under attack? That means the enemy just needs to shoot now and then, extending the time, until some real life issue forces me log off.

This means that, for small or one man corps, a citadel is not a viable option. Note that the present POS is a viable option, because I can take it down during the 24 hour warm-up period of the war.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#277 - 2015-10-28 03:37:07 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Obil Que wrote:
Sir SmashAlot wrote:
Does the citadel need to be manned by a player for the weapons / defenses to work?

Will groups in High Sec (During War), Low, WH, and, Null be forced to have station alts sitting in these things 23/7 in order to blap anyone on grid?


Yes. This has been the case since the first devblog
You don't have to man them 23/7, only during your vulnerable windows (3 hours / wk for a M)

I assume this time is extended if the citadel is under attack? That means the enemy just needs to shoot now and then, extending the time, until some real life issue forces me log off.

This means that, for small or one man corps, a citadel is not a viable option. Note that the present POS is a viable option, because I can take it down during the 24 hour warm-up period of the war.


1. You have to meet a minimum dps threshold or it doesn't count as "damage" you can't take a potshot every 15 min and call it DPS

2. If it goes 15 minutes with no dps applied it reps hull, armor, shield to full and vulnerability window is over
Abaddon Nergal
Xenomine Industries
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#278 - 2015-10-28 08:16:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Abaddon Nergal
So my 2 isk,

Wormholers
IIRC the large citadel will be able to be set up/deployed by an Orca, (yes you need cargo rigs and expanders).
Now for most C2 and higher wh's you have a static that will allow said Orca to fit through the hole.
So whilst in a C1 you would need to build an Orca anything else is relatively easy to set the large up.
I personally don't see an issue here.

Copy/research times
Running the numbers through excel shows that I can run a medium to produce a copy in 8 hours Twisted
Large @ 13hrs
X-Large @ 17hrs

I second the comments of those that think this is too low, I would think that a week minimum for mediums is a good starting point
L - 2 weeks
XL - A month

Manufacturing time should ALWAYS be greater then copy time IMHO, why? copying market and it encourages those that want it now, to pay for it. the price point does go some lengths in achieving this however. additionally only taking 20hrs to produce a medium is crazy. This needs to be increased as well. Working on the above:

Medium - 1 and 1/2 months
Large- 3 1/2 months
XL - 6 months

Hmm those manufacturing times seem a little high using the "1/6th rule" maybe a change is needed there though half the above times seems closer to "reasonable"

Abaddon Nergal

p.s. my views are my own and not that of Wingspan Delivery Services.
Siliya
State War Academy
Caldari State
#279 - 2015-10-28 08:35:40 UTC
Abaddon Nergal wrote:
So my 2 isk,

Wormholers
IIRC the large citadel will be able to be set up/deployed by an Orca, (yes you need cargo rigs and expanders).
Now for most C2 and higher wh's you have a static that will allow said Orca to fit through the hole.
So whilst in a C1 you would need to build an Orca anything else is relatively easy to set the large up.
I personally don't see an issue here.


aside from the fact that somewhere they said this was an oversight (was a few pages back).. I expect it to be bumped up past Max Orca range of 105k

the one thing we aren't getting info on is what type of installation is required to construct it ...
will we be able to construct it inside a wormhole (put the BPC into the cooker and pop a citidel out) in an array - and if so what array will we be able to use
or will we have to haul it in via freighter or Jump freighter after constructing it in a NPC station(or outpost) in K-space
Abaddon Nergal
Xenomine Industries
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#280 - 2015-10-28 08:43:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Abaddon Nergal
Siliya wrote:


aside from the fact that somewhere they said this was an oversight (was a few pages back).. I expect it to be bumped up past Max Orca range of 105k

the one thing we aren't getting info on is what type of installation is required to construct it ...
will we be able to construct it inside a wormhole (put the BPC into the cooker and pop a citidel out) in an array - and if so what array will we be able to use
or will we have to haul it in via freighter or Jump freighter after constructing it in a NPC station(or outpost) in K-space


So I have this straight you are worried about something that hasn't happened,
I think it is more constructive to say "CCP we agree with the volumes of the citadels, thank you"
I for one agree with the currently selected volumes if in the case of this being an oversight well you still have tethering right?
It should be stated I have no issue with Capitals in C1-4 being.... punished. You want them? you'll find a way to build them.

In respect of creating the citadel, agreed no information yet however I would suggest that only stations (the one you dock at) will be the only thing capable of building them.