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Dev blog: Building your Citadel, one block at a time

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Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#161 - 2015-10-27 05:29:46 UTC
Copy times are way too short to make BPO purchase a realistic investment.

Missed opportunity on data sites. Somewhat concerned about T2 rigs market but I don't know it well enough to justify that.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
#162 - 2015-10-27 05:33:10 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
perhaps adding more salvage too ship wrecks could help with keeping T2 rig prices down, although i suppose the new stations will also drop some salvage.



Upping the need for salvage gives new players a way to make ISK and allows ninja slavagers to make more by doing what they like. I have heard plenty of pilots say that they just leave the salvage because it's worthless, now it won't be and if a null corp has some new blood it is just another way for them to make money.

Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. Hunter S. Thompson
Darkstar01
Doomheim
#163 - 2015-10-27 06:35:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Darkstar01
Soldarius wrote:
The quantities of T2 salvage required for an XL rig are absolutely batshit insane. There is not enough available market supply across the entire eve universe to build more than a couple of any of these. The price of T2 salvage will go so high no one will ever be able to afford T2 rigs for anything ever again.

Burl en Daire wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
perhaps adding more salvage too ship wrecks could help with keeping T2 rig prices down, although i suppose the new stations will also drop some salvage.


Upping the need for salvage gives new players a way to make ISK and allows ninja slavagers to make more by doing what they like. I have heard plenty of pilots say that they just leave the salvage because it's worthless, now it won't be and if a null corp has some new blood it is just another way for them to make money.

In the current game, some salvages are worthless and never used, while other salvages are expensive and used very often.

The new Citadels will mainly be using the salvages that are currently worthless and never used - this has the effect of balancing the salvage system, so that all salvages will have a purpose.

It would also make the game more accessible to newer players because it boosts the overall salvage income.
Ranamar
Nobody in Local
Deepwater Hooligans
#164 - 2015-10-27 06:39:45 UTC
Lelira Cirim wrote:
Sizeof Void wrote:
Sometimes, I think you devs underestimate how much ISK already exists in the game

...
You say that like it would require more than a database query? Straight Not sure if passive aggressive.
If I worked at CCP I would install a LED stock ticker showing exactly what the key universe metrics are, every downtime.


From what I hear, they have one of those, showing various stats, posted over the entrance to the cafeteria. I'm not sure what it has other than concurrent player count, though.
Ben Hocking
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#165 - 2015-10-27 07:59:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Ben Hocking
@CCP Phantom would it be possible for you to post a spreadsheet of the various picture spread sheets displayed thought the blog.

That's assuming there is already a spreadsheet in CCP land,
If not I'm happy to transcribe into google spreadsheets and make it public [I understand you guys will have tight schedule atm, time being the bane of all programmers].

Thanks again,

Ben
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#166 - 2015-10-27 09:05:41 UTC
Querns wrote:
Sizeof Void wrote:
Hmm... I find it interesting that, with one exception, CCP Ytterbium has only been responding to posts by Goons. (The one exception is a TEST post.)

Is everyone else's post simply being ignored? Where are the conspiracy trolls when you need them? lol....

It's because we actually have relevant questions about small details that are easy and possible to answer. Most of the rest of the posting is complaining.

I knew you'd say something like this... ;)
Iski Zuki DaSen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#167 - 2015-10-27 09:14:33 UTC
what will happen to the current station components that already has been build by the time you change the bpos from "station" to "structure"?...
are you gona rename those as well from "station" to "structure"?
are they going to be just junk to trash?
are they going to be things to reprocess to at least get some matterials back?
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#168 - 2015-10-27 09:38:20 UTC
Lelira Cirim wrote:
Sizeof Void wrote:
Sometimes, I think you devs underestimate how much ISK already exists in the game
You say that like it would require more than a database query? Straight Not sure if passive aggressive.

I say this because they frequently don't seem to know how to write a SQL query (or ask one of the db guys to do it for them) to look up these numbers.

30B-70B ISK in materials for an XL Structure hull?

That is chump change in today's EVE universe.

Not even considering the financial resources of the corps and alliances, hundreds of individual players have more than that in their personal wallets.

For example, I've got 100B+ ISK currently in wallet, sitting idle, plus a stockpile of 50+ PLEX, bought in-game - and I'm not even close to being in the same wealth class as Gevlon, Chribba, or any of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal members. And, I didn't get the ISK via any extraordinary prolitable method, such as scamming, ganking, running bot fleets, incursions, FW plex'ing, 24/7 mission running or other newsworthy nonsense - I'm just a low-to-middle of the road market trader, buying/selling cheap items (less than 100K ISK, on average), plus selling a few subcap ship BPCs on the side, on a single account (mostly on a single toon, in fact). Nothing spectacular at all, yet it looks like even I can afford to build one of these XL Citadels.

So, if these XL Citadels are meant to be expensive tools for the corps/alliances, and not meant to be something that players can individually afford, then the cost needs to be significantly higher.
Onslaughtor
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#169 - 2015-10-27 10:09:50 UTC
The large should be able to squeeze into a orca. 80km3 would be a healthy number, or 90km3 if you want things to be tougher.

I personally feel that the prices on the BPO's stray very far from the conventions set by most ships and structures in the game. I understand the desire to make these rare but the numbers given seem rather extreme. Im not sure how you could balance this better because the high price point is designed to enforce the largest groups to have to build these in house. But at the same time these structures provide a necessity to smaller groups that need some of these functions, specifically the ability to dock caps and supers. Realistically a few more variants of the M and L sizes with less slots or something but room for caps and super caps would go a long way.
X Mayce
South Sun Industries
Brave Collective
#170 - 2015-10-27 10:14:42 UTC  |  Edited by: X Mayce
o7

Do I get this correct:

nowadays, if I want to get dreadnoughts into position within jumprange to a system to siege that system/in that system (and I dont have any stations for docking available):

I place a pos within 5lys (max dread jump range) or less, get my dreads there to have some sort of "safe"-starting point.


future use of dreadnoughts for sieging something, and you dont have a station for docking yet means:
place at least a large building (citadel) with minimal costs of around 3b (optimistic value)?

is this, how it's gonna work, or did I get something wrong?

Manson Family

Advent of Fate
Siliya
State War Academy
Caldari State
#171 - 2015-10-27 10:24:05 UTC
the question I have for this is about construction location
what type of Location will be required to build one of these
will it need to be constructed in a station or will an Array work
and if an array works what type of Array - I would guess CSA or XL-SAA based on Size
or will you be including a new array for the purpose of Citidels
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#172 - 2015-10-27 10:27:52 UTC
I feel bad because the diversity of racial isotope consumption is being lost.
If I want to run reactions, I mostly choose gallente or caldari. If I want a deathstar or a resistar - I choose minmatar. If I live in the South, I have to choose amarr, which are a bit subpar to those above. But all of these are meaningful choices and it's fun to make them. Soon, it's gone.

Do you remember one of your disign goals was "to support existing gameplay"?
Any chance you still manage to incorporate isotope diversity in Citadels?
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#173 - 2015-10-27 10:44:56 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:
There seems to be some confusion about overview and warping etc

If you have docking rights, the citadel shows up on overview

If you don't

Open scanner window and it should up green, like an anomoly now and you can warp to it, no dscan or probes needed, but you get ZERO intel until you arrive at the citadel, at which point you can scan it, see who is docked, scan its fitting etc, it can also lock and shoot you.

Obviously for high sec any aggression requires a wardec, citadels will have a permanent green gun safety


It is the same thing. You can still instantly warp to a citadel without any effort as apposed to the current requirement to locate the correct moon to find a pos.

We should be able to fit a mod to a citadel, which prevents a warp to without the use of combat probes.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Firvain
Wildly Inappropriate
Wildly Inappropriate.
#174 - 2015-10-27 11:01:22 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
Lelira Cirim wrote:
Sizeof Void wrote:
Sometimes, I think you devs underestimate how much ISK already exists in the game
You say that like it would require more than a database query? Straight Not sure if passive aggressive.

I say this because they frequently don't seem to know how to write a SQL query (or ask one of the db guys to do it for them) to look up these numbers.

30B-70B ISK in materials for an XL Structure hull?

That is chump change in today's EVE universe.

Not even considering the financial resources of the corps and alliances, hundreds of individual players have more than that in their personal wallets.

For example, I've got 100B+ ISK currently in wallet, sitting idle, plus a stockpile of 50+ PLEX, bought in-game - and I'm not even close to being in the same wealth class as Gevlon, Chribba, or any of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal members. And, I didn't get the ISK via any extraordinary prolitable method, such as scamming, ganking, running bot fleets, incursions, FW plex'ing, 24/7 mission running or other newsworthy nonsense - I'm just a low-to-middle of the road market trader, buying/selling cheap items (less than 100K ISK, on average), plus selling a few subcap ship BPCs on the side, on a single account (mostly on a single toon, in fact). Nothing spectacular at all, yet it looks like even I can afford to build one of these XL Citadels.

So, if these XL Citadels are meant to be expensive tools for the corps/alliances, and not meant to be something that players can individually afford, then the cost needs to be significantly higher.


Nice of you that you can build one, can you actully defend one too?
L iriel
Arach-Tinilith
#175 - 2015-10-27 11:13:05 UTC
It's such a shame these are going to be priced like this...

700bil for a raw print is totally ridiculous.
Very few individuals will be able to afford this, Prints will only be accessible to major alliances, even though they will be "seeded" you won't be able to buy them.

Many of the indy players that I know have decided to no longer sub their accounts, because living in 0.0 is becoming impossible with all the changes
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#176 - 2015-10-27 11:22:51 UTC
Firvain wrote:
[quote=Sizeof Void]Nice of you that you can build one, can you actully defend one too?

Sure, why not?

As is the current case with high-sec POS, if everyone has one, then the chances of yours being singled out and attacked is actually pretty low (unless you are Gevlon and go out of your way to make enemies of the Goons).

POS bashing has never been fun, and I don't think Citadel bashing is going to be significantly more fun, is it? :)
Dracnys
#177 - 2015-10-27 11:35:00 UTC
As others already mentioned, the copy time for the 700b XL Citadel BPO is too short. Make it last at least as long as a titan BPO copy time. The price seems fine. Generally not affordable by individuals (except maybe a few dozen?) but doable for medium to large alliances.

The price of building the XL Citadel itself seems a bit on the low side for me. I was expecting them to cost way more than a titan, something in the 200-500b range. Then they are really something special. Remember, even the empire couldn't afford to build more than one death star at a time.
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#178 - 2015-10-27 11:50:10 UTC
Destiny Dain2 wrote:
Can a Citadel change their fit on the fly with weapons and ammo?


I picture a sub-capital fleet come in on the final round and the persons Citadel is fitted for them and then when the timer starts, in come the Capitals with no way to defend.



Once it is being attacked it is locked
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#179 - 2015-10-27 11:54:12 UTC
Do we know for sure what is happening with BPO's

Nullarbor has been saying all new BPO's on slack, but now it seems it is a name change, not sure if that is in theory or reality on TQ



If there is a name change on TQ, that effectively ends outpost construction


So, will the outpost BPO's change name on TQ, if so, when, or will there be all new BPO's and then at some point in the future you can sell or trade in your old outpost BPO's?
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#180 - 2015-10-27 11:55:55 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:
There seems to be some confusion about overview and warping etc

If you have docking rights, the citadel shows up on overview

If you don't

Open scanner window and it should up green, like an anomoly now and you can warp to it, no dscan or probes needed, but you get ZERO intel until you arrive at the citadel, at which point you can scan it, see who is docked, scan its fitting etc, it can also lock and shoot you.

Obviously for high sec any aggression requires a wardec, citadels will have a permanent green gun safety


It is the same thing. You can still instantly warp to a citadel without any effort as apposed to the current requirement to locate the correct moon to find a pos.

We should be able to fit a mod to a citadel, which prevents a warp to without the use of combat probes.



That kind of stuff will come with the observatory array, the possibilities for that are endless