These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

MASS-PROTEST AGAINST EXPLORING THE CHARACTER BAZAAR & SKILL TRADING

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#61 - 2015-10-18 14:59:10 UTC
Freelancer117 wrote:

Power to the Costumers, Vote with your Wallet Cool

Quote:
There is only one boss. The customer. And he can fire everybody in the company from the chairman on down, simply by spending his money somewhere else.

Sam Walton


source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Walton


They say: The customer is king.

If you ever had to deal with customers you know that it's partly true: customers can be royal a-holes.

The thing is you properly escalate before you go nuclear. Usually you start with discussing and bringing well thought out arguments to the table.

Rioting or quitting should be a last resort.

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
Erin Crawford
#62 - 2015-10-18 15:03:28 UTC
Zappity wrote:
I think the proposed change is a good idea. I would think otherwise if the character bazaar were not already a thing. But it is, so bring it on.


Exactly!

"Those who talk don’t know. Those who know don’t talk. "
Erin Crawford
#63 - 2015-10-18 15:04:48 UTC
Leonardo Adami wrote:
This is dumb, the proposal is amazing and I hope they go through with it cause it's long overdue. People who stifle progress or attempt to like yourself are a large portion of what's wrong with this game.

Yup.

"Those who talk don’t know. Those who know don’t talk. "
armymp327
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#64 - 2015-10-18 15:46:42 UTC
I think this new skillpoint idea is a great idea and good start to bringing new players or old players back to the game
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#65 - 2015-10-18 15:57:16 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
The Power Broker wrote:
It should bring more players into Eve and or retain them...... Check
It may keep players away when it gets around that in EvE, not only do you need to pay a subscription up front, but you need to buy X quantity of skillpoints for X amount of RL cash before you can do anything worthwhile. This will be the new perception of many new players if this goes live. So much for the NPE.
How about this message for new players:

SP are quite useful, but not that important. Don't get all excited about SP and take your time. Because if you're willing to progress slower than usual, after the first 2 months you can play for free for just a couple 100 million ISK a month. Go shoot people in Faction Warfare!

Because one of the possibilities of the new system will be trading SP for ISK for PLEX... Yes, after 5M SP newbros can sell SP too.


What Portmanteau is getting to is that some outsiders / new players already have this false notion that they are competing solely on the SP and ISK level with older players. They think that they can buy the ISK, but will alway stay 12 years worth of skilltraining behind the highest SP characters.

They don't know or don't accept that the competition as far as SP go is always only within a certain number of skills which all are hard-capped at level 5.

So far PLEX and the character bazaar exist, to allow players who want to spend real money to increase SP and ISK to do so. The character bazaar is not very easy to use and thereby limits the number of players using it.

The proposed changes are good as far as making it easieer to obtain SP without the downsides of the character bazaar.

The question is, how will it affect the perception about EvE in the general public ?
We already deal with perceptions such as "I would play EvE if you didn't have to be online every day" or "EvE is just spreadsheets in space".

We also know that many corps have minimum SP requirements.

I think it is not completely impossible that new players will get the feeling of having to procure ISK and SP in the fastest way possible (spending real money) right off the bat. If that happens we might have to deal with EvE getting a pay2win stigma on top.

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#66 - 2015-10-18 15:58:15 UTC
armymp327 wrote:
I think this new skillpoint idea is a great idea and good start to bringing new players or old players back to the game


You are overrating this.
We will see only threads where new players will be complaining on the prices of skillpoints.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#67 - 2015-10-18 17:00:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
When it will be on TQ, you will forget about that change in one week.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Epic Name
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2015-10-18 17:06:25 UTC
Can't wait for this new feature it will be good for the game
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#69 - 2015-10-18 17:07:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Steve Ronuken
I've made my position clear on this elsewhere.

However, That said, fairness demands that I do clear something up:

CCP did talk with the CSM about this, before all of you saw this. The posting of the devblog didn't blind side us about it.

I won't say 'The CSM is against this'. Because if you go looking, a negative reaction isn't unanimous. But some of us did react negatively, and told CCP that we thought it was a bad idea. And then, because we went with the adult reaction, we didn't throw our toys out the pram and refuse to talk further. 'This is a bad idea. This is how you make it a less bad idea. But it's still a bad idea'.

Discuss doesn't equal 'give a veto to'.



To clarify on my own reaction: I'm not a fan, because it leads to the feeling that people 'must' buy skill points to keep their character competitive. Yes, people could always go and buy a character off the Bazaar. But their connection to a character like that is less. Also, it's a significantly higher outlay, so it's not a 'normal' option for people to take. With a lower initial cost, the pressure is higher. And I think that's a bad idea.

(Will it kill Eve? Nope. I just don't think it'll be good for it)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2015-10-18 17:43:08 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
To clarify on my own reaction: I'm not a fan, because it leads to the feeling that people 'must' buy skill points to keep their character competitive.
This I don't really understand, Steve.

Experienced players will buy SP only if they need it (for a specific purpose) and sell the SP they don't need.

Newer players will know that the option exists, and that it's relatively expensive. The normal reaction I'd expect is 'hmmm ok, that's a lot of ISK... do I really need this?' answer: 'not necessarily, it depends, it's your choice to make. for 12 years players got by without it!' 'ok, I'll learn a little bit more about the game first. nice that we at least have the option now'.

Or something along those lines.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Bobb Bobbington
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#71 - 2015-10-18 17:44:10 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
I've made my position clear on this elsewhere.

However, That said, fairness demands that I do clear something up:

CCP did talk with the CSM about this, before all of you saw this. The posting of the devblog didn't blind side us about it.

I won't say 'The CSM is against this'. Because if you go looking, a negative reaction isn't unanimous. But some of us did react negatively, and told CCP that we thought it was a bad idea. And then, because we went with the adult reaction, we didn't throw our toys out the pram and refuse to talk further. 'This is a bad idea. This is how you make it a less bad idea. But it's still a bad idea'.

Discuss doesn't equal 'give a veto to'.



To clarify on my own reaction: I'm not a fan, because it leads to the feeling that people 'must' buy skill points to keep their character competitive. Yes, people could always go and buy a character off the Bazaar. But their connection to a character like that is less. Also, it's a significantly higher outlay, so it's not a 'normal' option for people to take. With a lower initial cost, the pressure is higher. And I think that's a bad idea.

(Will it kill Eve? Nope. I just don't think it'll be good for it)


I suppose the million dollar question is if CCP can afford to miss the opportunity cost of so much money if they go without these skill packets.

This is a signature.

It has a 25m signature.

No it's not a cosmic signature.

Probably.

Btw my corp's recruiting.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#72 - 2015-10-18 18:38:40 UTC
I think we should campaign a movement that states:

Any CSM who did not openly support this change is not worthy of being re-elected ever again.

Can't have CSMs who are so out of touch with reality that they'll let eve die so they can preserve their own self serving advantages such as skill points.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#73 - 2015-10-18 18:57:59 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
To clarify on my own reaction: I'm not a fan, because it leads to the feeling that people 'must' buy skill points to keep their character competitive.
This I don't really understand, Steve.

Experienced players will buy SP only if they need it (for a specific purpose) and sell the SP they don't need.

Newer players will know that the option exists, and that it's relatively expensive. The normal reaction I'd expect is 'hmmm ok, that's a lot of ISK... do I really need this?' answer: 'not necessarily, it depends, it's your choice to make. for 12 years players got by without it!' 'ok, I'll learn a little bit more about the game first. nice that we at least have the option now'.

Or something along those lines.



'They expect me to pay how much to catch up?' is the reaction I have concerns about

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2015-10-18 19:02:48 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
To clarify on my own reaction: I'm not a fan, because it leads to the feeling that people 'must' buy skill points to keep their character competitive.
This I don't really understand, Steve.

Experienced players will buy SP only if they need it (for a specific purpose) and sell the SP they don't need.

Newer players will know that the option exists, and that it's relatively expensive. The normal reaction I'd expect is 'hmmm ok, that's a lot of ISK... do I really need this?' answer: 'not necessarily, it depends, it's your choice to make. for 12 years players got by without it!' 'ok, I'll learn a little bit more about the game first. nice that we at least have the option now'.

Or something along those lines.



'They expect me to pay how much to catch up?' is the reaction I have concerns about
I see your point, but the answer 'roughly as much as the others paid to accumulate those SP in the first place' would feel reasonable, no? And some of us are playing with numbers/predictions, it could even cost a bit less...

And aren't we all always trying to make newbros understand that 'catching up' isn't very important after all?

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#75 - 2015-10-18 19:17:27 UTC
Freelancer117 wrote:
Time for another MASS-PROTEST, after Incarna greed is good debalce, CCP Games still has not learned the lesson X

source: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=536826276


Cya you in Amarr, on the Amarr VIII (Oris) - Emperor Family Academy station undock, shooting the monument !

Regards, a Freelancer


PS: Time to make stand against this Bullshit all over again, like we did in 2011 and made the Company change policy.
https://ardentdefense.wordpress.com/2011/06/24/eve-jita-mass-protest/

CCP Seagull wrote:

Quote:
#51 - 2014-05-12 17:11:55 UTC
Freelancer117 wrote:


May I remind CCPgames about this dev blog:

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/accord-reached-at-ccps-special-summit/

"We have expressed our deep concern about potential grey areas that the introduction of virtual goods permits, and CCP has made a commitment to discuss any proposals that might fall into these grey areas in detail with CSM at the earliest possible stage."

Hope that awareness has not dissipated over the years.

Regards, a Freelancer



Nothing has changed in our approach since that blog - the same principles still apply, and we will still discuss all new plans with the CSM.


source: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4583354#post4583354


aww the drama, ccp does not do what I want... you pussy

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#76 - 2015-10-18 19:29:02 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:



'They expect me to pay how much to catch up?' is the reaction I have concerns about


That's my main issue with it too, couldn't give a toss about other players should go through what I did blah blah, it's the new guys feeling fleeced by CCP that concerns me.
Amber Starview
Doomheim
#77 - 2015-10-18 20:10:48 UTC
Nobody will feel fleeced and this is a good thing for ccp to be raising income in tough times ,even though I'm not sold on the way sp is being sold I shall wait and see and shall be not "rioting" but gl 😁
Otso Bakarti
Doomheim
#78 - 2015-10-18 20:53:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Otso Bakarti
BrundleMeth wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
If you are looking for support in this endeavor, I'm afraid it won't be coming from me.

Mr Epeen Cool

Well said...
He always saids well.
Ibid.

After further consideration I've just realized. Usually there's one tenth the people in Amarr as in Jita. Of those, only about six talk in Local, and they all hate each other. This is an obvious ploy to drag people into Amarr so the guys there aren't so lonesome and stuff.

There just isn't anything that can be said!
Wendrika Hydreiga
#79 - 2015-10-18 21:27:37 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
'They expect me to pay how much to catch up?' is the reaction I have concerns about


A parallel could be made with what we have currently:

'They expect me to wait for how long to catch up?'

The common consensus for people that have this reaction often boils down to HTFU. And that's terrible.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#80 - 2015-10-18 22:33:52 UTC
Wendrika Hydreiga wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
'They expect me to pay how much to catch up?' is the reaction I have concerns about


A parallel could be made with what we have currently:

'They expect me to wait for how long to catch up?'

The common consensus for people that have this reaction often boils down to HTFU. And that's terrible.

So you should start imedialty with 100M skill points cus someone has that many. What about isk. I mean some people have billions of isk. should new accounts start with billions.

If you keep following this logic all the way, you get a very boring game indeed. One where nothing is special and nothing matters because everyone has everything.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.