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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

First post First post First post
Author
Menkary Hardluck
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1101 - 2015-10-15 23:56:18 UTC
Oh God, no. Please no. Training up a character is supposed to be hard. The choices you make in training are not supposed to be easy. It is supposed to be something you have to very carefully plan. I don't want to see EVE as pay-to-win.
Fool Nalelmir
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1102 - 2015-10-15 23:59:08 UTC
Ok there you go I just canceled my subscriptions. After the 231 actual days I have spent in game and the HOLY CRAP (I looked it up) thousands of dollars i have spent on this game to be told that my time and the i went threw to get to this point in eve matters less than getting some new kids that will unsub in a month cuts to dang deep. At least the folks at Star Citizen are honest about taking my money.

Now I wish i wouldn't have gotten those Eve Vegas tickets.

CCP you have till Jan to make me change my mind
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1103 - 2015-10-16 00:00:08 UTC
Menkary Hardluck wrote:
Oh God, no. Please no. Training up a character is supposed to be hard. The choices you make in training are not supposed to be easy. It is supposed to be something you have to very carefully plan. I don't want to see EVE as pay-to-win.


Another player ignorant of the character bazaar.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

darkchild's corpse
Rens Nursing Home
#1104 - 2015-10-16 00:00:11 UTC
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:

Dude I'm not going to read 55 pages. I read the first 5 pages or so and it's mainly people saying how terrible and pay to win this is despite the fact that you can already just buy a supercap pilot using real life money to buy PLEX and using PLEX to buy characters totally legitimately.



dude... your point is invalid for two reasons:

1. you: "why is it a bad idea?" "it's already answered, just read it" "no, i'm lazy"

2. saing "there are already pay to win possiblites" is no reason to implement another one wich is even worse
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#1105 - 2015-10-16 00:00:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Epeen
Menkary Hardluck wrote:
Oh God, no. Please no. Training up a character is supposed to be hard.


I'm not sure what game you play, but obviously not this one.

Training up a character is as easy as buying a bunch of PLEX an hitting the Character Bazaar. Not exactly the killer grind you seem to think it is.

~ed~ I bow to Teckos' superior speed typing skills.

Mr Epeen Cool
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1106 - 2015-10-16 00:00:48 UTC
Draugo Rana wrote:
The consequence that when you buy a character from the bazaar you need to live with that character's skill allocation, reputation, history, name, appearance. That was a trade off you had to deal with. I never liked that possibility to do this but at least it has these consequences.

And people in this thread already started to point out various ways this system can be abused and I am sure this is just the tip of the iceberg. Because yes, what can possible go wrong when modifying such a core system and letting everyone just move skills back and forth at whim?
The majority of the objections are unsupported kneejerk posts, of those that do present reasoning and exploits, I haven't seen one that would actually work as stated with the restrictions actually presented in the blog.

Also moving SP back and forth for any remotely trained character is about the worst thing you can do with the system s described,
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1107 - 2015-10-16 00:00:58 UTC
Fool Nalelmir wrote:
Ok there you go I just canceled my subscriptions. After the 231 actual days I have spent in game and the HOLY CRAP (I looked it up) thousands of dollars i have spent on this game to be told that my time and the i went threw to get to this point in eve matters less than getting some new kids that will unsub in a month cuts to dang deep. At least the folks at Star Citizen are honest about taking my money.

Now I wish i wouldn't have gotten those Eve Vegas tickets.

CCP you have till Jan to make me change my mind


You didn't read the dev blog did you?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1108 - 2015-10-16 00:01:55 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Menkary Hardluck wrote:
Oh God, no. Please no. Training up a character is supposed to be hard.


I'm not sure what game you play, but obviously not this one.

Training up a character is as easy as buying a bunch of PLEX an hitting the Character Bazaar. Not exactly the killer grind you seem to think it is.

Mr Epeen Cool



Exactly, and even if you did the old fashioned way, you plug in the skills, set up your queue and then go watch Walking Dead. Damned hard.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#1109 - 2015-10-16 00:03:27 UTC
u3pog wrote:
Don't forget people on the forums are actually a small percentage of the whole player base, so whether we approve or disapprove this idea, we do not speak for all of them. We are expressing our little, humble opinion. I don't think CSM can speak for us too. Sure they are our voice in CCP, but they are not our mind. The fact that I voted for someone doesn't mean that he/she always expresses my opinion.

If CCP has doubts about this after reading the thread, I suggest a poll to all players, maybe shown in the launcher or something. If not, they could "polish" this idea based on feedback and then release it.


it takes a lot more than the usual forum crowd to hit 55+ pages in a day. although how many are alt posts from forum regulars I couldn't say. but I do imagine this kinda news spreads fast and gets a lot of people that don't usually post to say something.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Draugo Rana
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
#1110 - 2015-10-16 00:04:18 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Menkary Hardluck wrote:
Oh God, no. Please no. Training up a character is supposed to be hard. The choices you make in training are not supposed to be easy. It is supposed to be something you have to very carefully plan. I don't want to see EVE as pay-to-win.


Another player ignorant of the character bazaar.


Another player who can't be bothered to actually read some of the previous responses addressing the point why the existence of a character bazaar is not really an excuse to making things worse.
Daniel Westelius
Shadow State
Goonswarm Federation
#1111 - 2015-10-16 00:05:00 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
I don't like this. Could be worse, but I don't like it.


A lowish hard cap would make it not as bad. But it still leads to "I just subscribed, but unless I spend more real money, I'll always be behind"


What is your point exactly? Currently new subscribers will ALWAYS be behind, this just gives those new subscribers a chance to partially catch up if they are willing to spend the money.

I have to give you some props though for at least stating some of your reasoning, unlike the rest of the CSM members that have chimed in so far. For future CSM members that are thinking about posting, give some reasoning behind your position and not just "I don't like it because I don't like it."
Zovex
Death Clone Delivery Service
Diablo's Minions
#1112 - 2015-10-16 00:05:14 UTC
I support this idea/change.

I've bought and sold over 50 toons on the bazaar.

This is just another way to advance the game.

+1
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1113 - 2015-10-16 00:05:53 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
u3pog wrote:
Don't forget people on the forums are actually a small percentage of the whole player base, so whether we approve or disapprove this idea, we do not speak for all of them. We are expressing our little, humble opinion. I don't think CSM can speak for us too. Sure they are our voice in CCP, but they are not our mind. The fact that I voted for someone doesn't mean that he/she always expresses my opinion.

If CCP has doubts about this after reading the thread, I suggest a poll to all players, maybe shown in the launcher or something. If not, they could "polish" this idea based on feedback and then release it.


it takes a lot more than the usual forum crowd to hit 55+ pages in a day. although how many are alt posts from forum regulars I couldn't say. but I do imagine this kinda news spreads fast and gets a lot of people that don't usually post to say something.


And in sheer blinding ignorance too.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

darkchild's corpse
Rens Nursing Home
#1114 - 2015-10-16 00:06:27 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
darkchild's corpse wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
This isn't taking ANYTHING away from anyone, it's only giving more to those who don't have.



this is (more or less) true but not the point.

i think many ppl in here forget that something like this will also be possible with the new thing:

imagine you are camped inside a station with a few ppl and noone of you can use jammers for example. or a logistic or whatever you would need to win. usually you would have to buy the skill and train it until you are good enough. the other option would be to buy a character who can already use/fly it. none of these solutions works instantly. but if you are rich, you can simply buy skillpoints instantly and turn the whole situation. and this is one example where this system would give more to those who don't have wich is just not right.
That makes some assumptions about how this works:

a) it's available where you are docked in sufficient quantities to meet your immediate need or
b) it's on contact and redeemable anywhere or
c) you already had the free SP from the purchase already applied

If it requires the first case, which one would hope it will, it's no different then having a mod you need in station for purchase when you have an immediate need.


true but you were always able to buy it elsewhere and haul it with an alt. but to my understanding the point of skillpoints in general is that not every player is meant to do anything anytime. you have to spend time to learn something. this would no longer be the case.
Soltys
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1115 - 2015-10-16 00:06:33 UTC
Menkary Hardluck wrote:
Oh God, no. Please no. Training up a character is supposed to be hard. The choices you make in training are not supposed to be easy. It is supposed to be something you have to very carefully plan. I don't want to see EVE as pay-to-win.



Which part of training character is in any way or form related to being hard ? And which choices are difficult to make ?

Come on ...

Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl & Kuvl

PANZER1233000
Monkey Attack Squad
Goonswarm Federation
#1116 - 2015-10-16 00:07:51 UTC  |  Edited by: PANZER1233000
5-10k online in next summer? CCP again make blog about micro transaction? Players need destroy jita monument for stop idiot developers? **** storm can destroy Iceland CCP STOP IT!!!
And there my gold svipul, premium +50% loot and bounty, and gold ammo +50% tracking and damage?
Shinjou Hanabi
28th Imperial Crusade
#1117 - 2015-10-16 00:08:05 UTC
am i undertood wring or it's really about trading SP?
maybe i understood wrong because my English is bad
Doc Hyland
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1118 - 2015-10-16 00:08:08 UTC
This is a terrible idea.

Look, if you want to change the Character Bazaar... then change the Character Bazaar. What you're doing is something else entirely.

Do this:

Have an in-game UI (like the one used for Industry/Blueprints). If the seller followed the rules exactly, he can click on "Sell this Character on the Bazaar." It can be an auction, or a "buy it now" style. Seller gets to choose how much isk, etc etc. One of the requirements should be an alternate character where the ISK would go when the character is sold. People can browse through all the characters for sale.

Once the seller clicks, "Sell Me!" it logs the seller out and the character is unavailable to you. Once somebody buys it in-game, the character is automatically transferred to the buyer's account (like when somebody buys plex - they redeem it) and the ISK is transferred to the character the seller selected as the receiver. Done. Simple.

As far as changing the name and looks... too bad. In EVE, you're the character, not yourself. The great benefit of this game is that the characters are static. I never have to worry about an old friend changing their name and disappearing.
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#1119 - 2015-10-16 00:08:53 UTC
This is worse than thousand dollar jeans. CCP Shocked
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1120 - 2015-10-16 00:09:18 UTC
Draugo Rana wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Menkary Hardluck wrote:
Oh God, no. Please no. Training up a character is supposed to be hard. The choices you make in training are not supposed to be easy. It is supposed to be something you have to very carefully plan. I don't want to see EVE as pay-to-win.


Another player ignorant of the character bazaar.


Another player who can't be bothered to actually read some of the previous responses addressing the point why the existence of a character bazaar is not really an excuse to making things worse.


What, a player can side step training by going to the character bazaar with a load of ISK. They can get that ISK by selling PLEX in game.


Further, if a character does buy an SP packet, how is it any less "hard" to figure out where to allocate those SP?

That is the only hard thing about training, the actual acquisition of SP is dead easy.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online