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Phoenix in C4 Black hole effect. Single shots everything. 1 x scripted MGC and 1 x MGE, + TP's from a Vigil. As Chainsaw Plankton says, you have to do the maths, which is hard. But once you've done it, you push it into broken territory. I'm happy with the way my OTT Golem works.

Typhoons, we have found 2 x TP's and 1 x TP + MGC is equivalent for application work. The biggest hit to us was actually the rig stacking penalty introduction, it used to be that you could get your cruise Phoon's missiles behaving better than light missiles. I have been able to single-shot ceptors and garmurs with a Phoon. Again, you do the maths, then fit.

Aside from those 2 examples there is literally no point. You cannot push the envelope far enough to actually make a difference. it's better to not fly the ship at all than take a missile boat out and fail, because...yet again...if the maths do not favour you, there is no skill in missile boats beyond knowing what not to fights.

Missile Disruptors will totally trash cruiser and battleship missiles, and hence, extinguish them from the PVP meta entirely.

Well I didn't say that they don't need range at all, my point was that I am okay-ish with the range cruiser missiles and heavy missiles have (now). I am painfully aware that the biggest complaint are light missiles on a pirate boat.
And guess what, pirate ships are supposed to be the end of the food-chain in case of power - exceeding battlecruisers.

Anyhow, I am not entirely against the missile computer thingies but the lowslot thingies are as useless as herpies. The computers are okay and can bring missiles (no not the light ones) to a level I can almost agree upon.

Now the second idea in this case was to give the defender missiles we already have 100% application as a missile counter to not break EVE instead of the tracking disruptors. Maybe you can talk to the team (5-O I think) about it?

Again this would only affect defender missiles, the light and heavy ones - there are only two in the game. Put it on SiSi and let us try them out.

Oh and don't forget to unbreak torpedos (no I don't fly bombers). Torpedos should have 40km range on my Raven, 300m explosion radius (rage) and 100m/s exlposion velocity (also the rage ones).

I have a couple more concerns with regards the strength of these on unbonused hulls.

1) Unbonused range disruption to turrets can be soft countered by an ammo swap - less DPS, but not zero. Missiles Cannot do this, no range, no DPS.
2) Unbonused tracking speed disruption is eminently manageable by manually piloting, for example a maller with scorch would start to track like a 200mm rail thorax - in other words perfectly manageable by piloting. Missiles cannot do a thing to manually mitigate these mods.

Test case I used: Bellicose with a single HML shooting 100% unfit thorax moving at 300m/s. Single unbonused disruptor: Removes 46.1% of the missile damage. Options available to the missile pilot.....Zero.

A second unbonused effect only knocks it back to 57.7% damage removed.

Keep in mind that is removing applied damage, which in my test case is already 25% of paper speak DPS.

i.e. paper damage is 224 per hit, applied damage to the unfit 300m/s thorax is 52.2 (23.3% of paper), with the MD it is down to 28.1 (12.5% of paper).

I realise these are effectively unfit, but the aim of the test was to see the disruption of a single/dual unbonused mod. It's....too good imo, considering the pilot can't do anything about it.

I really think you're going to want to reign in the unbonused values and boost the specialist hulls to level it off.


Caveat: I think my math is accurate but it is very early - if someone disagrees let me know please.

Faster cycling smartbombs, less cap use. Would probably do it. Makes firewalling easier.

Speaking of, is firewalling going to be removed now, since we now have legit anti-missile ewar?

In fact, I seem to recall (from players admittedly) that a lot of the reasons missiles are sub-par were because "they have no ewar"....any sign of that changing? Nerf RxML as required to make it work.

Post with your main if you want to be rude, otherwise lol.

To be perfectly honest, the introduction of missile disruptors seems completely pointless to me right now. Are Drake fleets blotting out the sky? Are Cruise Ravens an actual thing and I hadn't noticed?

The consensus seems to be that RLM platforms are overperforming while almost every other missile class is pointless, particularly large missiles. Torp range is a joke outside heavily bonused hulls, heavy missiles can't apply even half of their paper dps to targets in their own size class, cruise missiles ae unable to use their range because of a myriad reasons (firewall/warping out targets).

If these are imlemented there will be four ways to completely nullify the damage of a missile fleet: firewall, outrunning the missiles, warping out once the volley is on its way, and disrupting their range. And since mitigating missile damage is already much easier than avoiding gun damage (fly fast vs. maximize transversal) this just adds to the pile of reasons missiles are in such a bad spot overall.

A couple of proposals:

- If you're removing the old advantage of missiles of not being susceptible to ewar, let them have critical hits now.
- Buff HML and Torp application; also cruise missile speed.
- Remove firewall; I personaly think it's great, but its just not fair for so many counters to exist to a weapon system with subpar damage and application to start with.
- Change misile skill descriptions to state that these aren't CCP-approved weapons and you should consider the SP invested a waste :P

Every time they do something positive to make missiles even slightly Viable, along comes another Nerf to push them back to mission Boats, we don't all fly Alliance tourney doctrines,

Fozzie, do you not think a better idea would be to hold back with these missile modules and then release then as part of a wider missile rebalance?

At the moment there are some circumstances in which missiles are borderline OP, and some which a practically worthless. We need a missile tiericide much like we had ship tiericide. Missiles are in such a state at the moment that it would be foolish for us to throw numbers forward without a wide and comprehensive look at the whole picture.

As for this module I would suggest a tracking disruption module which effects missiles and turrets. Mid slots are the most valuable slots in PvP for most ships and so fitting one of each for missiles and turrets is impractical; even fitting one is a big compromise for most ships.

Also it would be better to have a module that soft counters both weapon systems than one which hard counters one of the other. Soft counters make for more interesting PvP as with hard counters the fight is decided before you even engage.

This!

The more I think of it, the more I think the current idea, will be a waist of time.

create a new module and to have it compete with other module it has to be so powerful that it renders missiles useless.
or it will get nice place with my defender missiles in this container of curiosities.


make it a script and every body and his mother will carry it, in that case the least you must do is limit the effects of speed tanking missiles and in that case we're back at reballancing missiles.

Hey folks thanks for the feedback so far. To answer a few of the common questions:

Q: Why make separate modules instead of using a script on existing TDs?
A: We believe that the script method would make TDs too powerful. Using separate modules means that weapon disruption ships can hedge their bets by fitting a spread of TDs and MDs, but that they'll have smaller numbers of each.

Q: Isn't 45% reduction to both flight time and velocity too much, since the effect stacks?
A: It's true that the effect of the two range attributes stack, so at the maximum (range scripted, on a bonused ship with links and heat) level the Missile Disruptor would reduce the total effective missile range by ~70%. However this is actually still less powerful than current Tracking Disruptors, which provide a -86% reduction in both optimal and falloff when using the same ship and bonuses.

Q: Will these disruptors apply to missiles already in flight, or just missiles fired while the disruptor is active?
A: Only missiles fired while the disruptor is active will be affected.

Q: Is the 10% buff to Guidance Computers and Guidance Enhancers absolute or relative?
A: Relative. So for instance a T1 unscripted Guidance Computer would provide 5.5% bonuses to explosion radius and explosion velocity, rather than the current 5%.