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Data Site Improvements

First post First post
Author
Dino Zavr
Shadow Owls
#41 - 2015-10-03 06:09:09 UTC
Dear CCP RedDawn,

Sorry to say this, but I am rather skeptical about COSMOS modules. Their materials are too rare, they require a hell lot of skills to build and they are totally inferior to dedspace modules which are rather common nowadays. So cosmos thingies require a very serious tiersiding to become really demanded. It might be a good idea to create more really shiny COSMOS modules where blue dedspace ones do not exist like shield extenders, inertial stabilizers and such

Can you, please, make expeditions from exploration sites triggered by all cans hacked? The faster this is done then more expedition chance is. This may be nice factor to make decision between cherry-picking and full site cleanup.

Also, please, make partially hacked sites to despawn faster. In my opinion it would be great to implement site lifetime timer starting at first warp in (cloaked or not). At least it will force explorer-hunters to move at least occasionally and scan new signatures instead of sitting semi-AFK in one single site for a whole day waiting for their prey.

Thanks
voetius
Grundrisse
#42 - 2015-10-03 08:08:28 UTC

Good to see you are starting to look at the drop rates of COSMOS materials.

I've done a fair amount of COSMOS building and if the drop rate of some of the super rare drops increases that can only be good for me. I've got a few BPC sitting around and just can't get one or two of the materials despite setting up very high buy orders.

Thanks.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#43 - 2015-10-03 09:00:07 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:

* Removed all skill books from Relic sites and placed them into Data sites. (Includes Encryption books)

Good
CCP RedDawn wrote:
* Removed the more commonly dropped 'non rig-related' blueprints from all the Relic sites. (They will still drop in Data sites)

Ok, but 90% of BPC are worthless anyway. I would like to see BPC for new structures in data sites. Generally wider spectrum of blueprints.
CCP RedDawn wrote:
* Introduced all Cosmos site building materials to all 4 tiers of Data sites.

What are 4 tier data site?
CCP RedDawn wrote:
* Increased the drop frequency of the Cosmos sites items that are currently on the Data site loot tables.

Do you mean faction materials? Because they don't drop now, I've seen a single one since they were introduced and I don't skip data sites.

As for cosmos. They need a balance pass. For now they are super expensive to build and not worth to buy. They perform as T2 items with lower fittings costs. Market is stuffed with deadspace mods that are better. I don't think above changes will help with them. Cosmos BPC are plenty, now we will have more mats for them, prices may drop to level that nobody will touch them.
Good example how system works here are implants BPCs from Ghost sites. Most of cases it's not worth to produce them but to sell materials needed to build them. It's rather there are too many BPCs or too low volume of villard wheels in ghost sites.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Jiro Kobaiashi
Stille Gewalt
#44 - 2015-10-03 14:59:26 UTC
Awsome, all we need now is a good reason to use the storyline modules (lookign at you, guns and reps)
CCP RedDawn
C C P
C C P Alliance
#45 - 2015-10-03 15:06:23 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP RedDawn
I've listened and I'll cancel the change to require a Data Analyzer for Besieged sites. So no changes will be made to that site.

Team Genesis

Stjornuvindur
Binary Aesthetics
#46 - 2015-10-03 16:02:38 UTC
Impressive feedback response :D and some good changes accepting the pointlessness of some of these sites.

Can we confirm we are switching from Relic OR Data module to ONLY USE data analyser in Ghosts?
CCP RedDawn
C C P
C C P Alliance
#47 - 2015-10-03 16:23:34 UTC
Stjornuvindur wrote:
Impressive feedback response :D and some good changes accepting the pointlessness of some of these sites.

Can we confirm we are switching from Relic OR Data module to ONLY USE data analyser in Ghosts?


Yes I'm still going to update all the Ghost site containers to require the Data Analyzer module only.

Team Genesis

Kayden Katelo
Mythic Heights
#48 - 2015-10-03 17:42:32 UTC
CCP RedDawn, as a very long time explorer I am very grateful you are actively looking into Data/Relic sites and making improvements. Most changes proposed are great. Your reversal on the Besieged sites is very appreciated. The use of data analyzer on Ghost sites is a good move.

I would echo one request, please make Ghost sites sigs and not anoms. It ought to have been this way from the beginning and may help increase their value.

I hope exploration will play a meaningful role in Citadel construction. Currently it is very disappointing that hacking will play no role is citadel destruction loot recovery nor dead stick removal. There is a huge loss of gaming potential here.
DaOpa
Static Corp
#49 - 2015-10-03 17:50:25 UTC


The Data & Archaeology containers in the COSMOS Static complexes all need to be updated if your going to go ahead with this sort of a change to regular data sites.


Don't forget about them...
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
Just let it happen
#50 - 2015-10-03 20:15:08 UTC
I think this is good, but not enough. At one time I saw a comment from CCP saying they wanted exploration to be the best ISK making PVE activity. In high sec, this certainly is not the case. L4 missions do better. Incursions are better.
What could be done? Make the loot table wider. That is, include more items. I suggest the inclusion of all skillbooks and all T1 BPOs. The drop rate would have to be carefully limited, so as to not exceed the current market demand. (Otherwise we have a price crash, and the loot becomes worthless.)

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Jon Illat
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#51 - 2015-10-03 20:39:24 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:
I've listened and I'll cancel the change to require a Data Analyzer for Besieged sites. So no changes will be made to that site.


Thank you so much :)
Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#52 - 2015-10-03 21:09:20 UTC
Kayden Katelo wrote:
CCP RedDawn, as a very long time explorer I am very grateful you are actively looking into Data/Relic sites and making improvements. Most changes proposed are great. Your reversal on the Besieged sites is very appreciated. The use of data analyzer on Ghost sites is a good move.

I would echo one request, please make Ghost sites sigs and not anoms. It ought to have been this way from the beginning and may help increase their value.

I hope exploration will play a meaningful role in Citadel construction. Currently it is very disappointing that hacking will play no role is citadel destruction loot recovery nor dead stick removal. There is a huge loss of gaming potential here.


Actually, this would be very welcome. I usually pass up Ghost sites because I have anoms turned off while exploring, since they are so numerous and clutter the list (:cough: get rid of the ****** anoms :cough:).
I realize you want Ghost sites to draw more poeple into exploration by making them appear as anoms, but what I usually see is that anom runners ask each other what they are, scratch their heads and ignore them, while explorers passing through often miss altogether.
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
Parasitic Legion.
#53 - 2015-10-03 21:31:27 UTC
I truly do wish this would work, but I don't believe it will.
I have been providing feedback on data and relic sites since Odyssey was released and I have watched the slow downward spiral of there value since then.
The changes in industry helped accelerate this as did the changes in scanning making it much easier to scan down sites. The Discovery Scanner is also one of the things has devalued in a more indirect way.

The bottom line is everything form data and relic sites are consumer based and if there is no consumer demand for the items the sites will always be of low value.

You would need to either introduce a means of NPC buy order items into the data sites to guarantee there value or cut the number of items you get from the sites dramatically to force the items to become more valuable.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Kel hound
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2015-10-03 23:13:11 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Stjornuvindur wrote:
Impressive feedback response :D and some good changes accepting the pointlessness of some of these sites.

Can we confirm we are switching from Relic OR Data module to ONLY USE data analyser in Ghosts?


Yes I'm still going to update all the Ghost site containers to require the Data Analyzer module only.



I've wondered for a long time now - Why do we actually need separate hacking skills and modules for these sites? Other than some minor differences in expected loot drops there is no real discernible difference between a Relic and Data site. Both use the same hacking window, both reward similar loot, both share a similar look and feel.

Really, as far as I can tell, the only difference is that one has me hacking a weird tower with a bunch of spinny rings, the other has me hacking a derelict ship.
Is it just to make sure we fill at least 2 mid-slots on our probe ships? I don't get it, there's not enough variation to justify splitting up Data and Relic into separate things.
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#55 - 2015-10-04 00:12:42 UTC
Kel hound wrote:
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Stjornuvindur wrote:
Impressive feedback response :D and some good changes accepting the pointlessness of some of these sites.

Can we confirm we are switching from Relic OR Data module to ONLY USE data analyser in Ghosts?


Yes I'm still going to update all the Ghost site containers to require the Data Analyzer module only.



I've wondered for a long time now - Why do we actually need separate hacking skills and modules for these sites? Other than some minor differences in expected loot drops there is no real discernible difference between a Relic and Data site. Both use the same hacking window, both reward similar loot, both share a similar look and feel.

Really, as far as I can tell, the only difference is that one has me hacking a weird tower with a bunch of spinny rings, the other has me hacking a derelict ship.
Is it just to make sure we fill at least 2 mid-slots on our probe ships? I don't get it, there's not enough variation to justify splitting up Data and Relic into separate things.


I submitted a proposal to merge these skills/modules but right now it doesn't seem feasible... plus perhaps CCP has some cool ideas for further differentiating them in the future.

I'm also curious what the explorers here think about cargo scanners in exploration sites?

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Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#56 - 2015-10-04 00:27:36 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:
Kel hound wrote:
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Stjornuvindur wrote:
Impressive feedback response :D and some good changes accepting the pointlessness of some of these sites.

Can we confirm we are switching from Relic OR Data module to ONLY USE data analyser in Ghosts?


Yes I'm still going to update all the Ghost site containers to require the Data Analyzer module only.



I've wondered for a long time now - Why do we actually need separate hacking skills and modules for these sites? Other than some minor differences in expected loot drops there is no real discernible difference between a Relic and Data site. Both use the same hacking window, both reward similar loot, both share a similar look and feel.

Really, as far as I can tell, the only difference is that one has me hacking a weird tower with a bunch of spinny rings, the other has me hacking a derelict ship.
Is it just to make sure we fill at least 2 mid-slots on our probe ships? I don't get it, there's not enough variation to justify splitting up Data and Relic into separate things.


I submitted a proposal to merge these skills/modules but right now it doesn't seem feasible... plus perhaps CCP has some cool ideas for further differentiating them in the future.

I'm also curious what the explorers here think about cargo scanners in exploration sites?


I personally wish there wasn't a need for them, people use them to avoid wasting time flying around for empty cans. Relic sites right now have pretty well spread loot so you can eschew it, but Data often has one good can and a lot of very crappy ones, so the cargo scanner is a must.

Same with ghost sites, there is not enough time to hack all the cans so the scanner is a must to avoid picking the wrong cans to hack. It can be argued, however, that this makes you choose what loot you want before the site blows up, so ti's not as bad as with Data sites where you just waste your time, no choice involved.

tl;dr: either make it unnecessary to cargo scan or leave it as it is. Restricting its use would turn Ghost sites into a roulette.
Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#57 - 2015-10-04 00:47:55 UTC
The modules are being rebalanced as they go through the sets they belong to.

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.

Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
Parasitic Legion.
#58 - 2015-10-04 03:00:32 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:
I'm also curious what the explorers here think about cargo scanners in exploration sites?

To remove cargo scanning you would have to reduce the number of cans per site, especially in the Ghost sites. If they were to remove cargo scanning for hacking containers then I would push for the total removal of cargo scanning form all PVE activities.

Sugar Kyle wrote:
The modules are being rebalanced as they go through the sets they belong to.

Yes the Metacide project is a very much welcomed project, but it doesn't make the modules in any more of a demand, deadspace and faction are often items much easier to get and produce (if applicable) and it does not reduce the skill requirements of manufacturing some of the items.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#59 - 2015-10-04 07:12:51 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:
I submitted a proposal to merge these skills/modules but right now it doesn't seem feasible... plus perhaps CCP has some cool ideas for further differentiating them in the future.

I'm also curious what the explorers here think about cargo scanners in exploration sites?

I'm not much of an explorer, I just dabble from time to time. merging the two hacker thingys sounds like a good idea to me, especially since as far as I can tell the do the same thing.

personally I think it is weird that you can cargo scan explo sites in the first place. In ghost sites it sounds like it makes more sense as you are rather time limited and adds to the task at hand. I'll leave more in depth arguments to people that run the content more often.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#60 - 2015-10-04 08:22:15 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
You would need to either introduce a means of NPC buy order items into the data sites to guarantee there value or cut the number of items you get from the sites dramatically to force the items to become more valuable.

I was thinking about it, but it would like loot from sleepers site, ISK printing. We need to find items that are linked with market. Relics are in good state. Ghost sites are in good state. Data contain items that can be obtained from other sources and are not consumed enough. If we want to stick with "data lore" then maybe skillbooks, or tags?

What is the key here:
-relics drops BPCs and materials to use them;
-ghost drop BPCs and materials to use them;
-data drops....

I'm browsing eve-markets but can't find suitable items. Cosmos modules are not enough, they won't have enough interest to fill the ISK gap between data and relic sites.

Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
I'm not much of an explorer, I just dabble from time to time. merging the two hacker thingys sounds like a good idea to me, especially since as far as I can tell the do the same thing.

CCP distinguished them in sleepers sites. Data module is for hacking devices on grid (unlocking warp gates, hack defense units), relic is for hacking loot cans. It's skill treshold for these sites.

As for cargo scanning. I was against it at start. When CCP introduced sleepers sites I started to change my mind. There are just too many cans on grids. It's +30 hack I presume. It also help to take meanigful choices when explorer is on grid (which can hack first etc.).

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville