EVE General Discussion

But the way it's going down at this point, I can roll a new alt with the instant SP handout and then train up cybernetics to use a good implant that a real newbie could not afford. As a vet, it does not remove any advantage I have over a newbie. If the SP were instead out of a cerebral accelerator, one I cant use other implants with, my new alt is training at the same speed as the newbie character. I may make better choices on what to train as being a vet, but still the newbie with guidance could make those same decisions and/or learn the mechanics of how to manage training from the start, not skipping very basic lessons as we all had to learn.

The SP being granted is not allocatable. It's in set skills. As such that SP brings the veteran no closer to cyber V than the new player. And the vet still has the knowledge of what cyber V and learning implants does, allowing them to prioritize it during the cerebral accelerator timeframe, which, unless the new player does the same, exasperates the learning gap. This is on top of the known skillplan from the vet as you mentioned.

What I don't get though is where the idea that skill selection and planning is something one bypasses at 400k SP. I still think about that at 110mill SP, know how to optimize SP/hour and what it entails in terms of planning, researching it myself when I started the game, and IIRC started with a lot more than 50k SP and no cerebral accelerator.

The exact level is pretty immaterial though regarding this change. Whether +3's at lvl 1 or +4's at lvl 4, knowing the mechanic exists and prioritizing it and having the resources to take advantage of it effortlessly are advantages of veterans.

That advantage doesn't disappear regardless of the number of starting SP.

The starting SP is a pretty complex one for sure. What would be the magic number? People saying high numbers, 5-10m but that isn't true. They are saying the numbers to be small hull DPS competitive. It isn't about effectiveness, it is about being combat DPS, nothing more. A far lower value is still effective, but not in the current eve climate and mechanics.

Simply put, it isn't starting SP that needs to be fixed, but other components of gameplay that render low sp skills ineffective. Tiericide was probably the first good move to help remedy this. By making T1 hulls and equipment more useful, it is now more possible to be involved with low sp characters.

A good way to run this would be to increase the power of non damage equipment, but at an increase in stacking penalty. Something more controversial would be to fully go over the fittings and equipment dynamics to make having tackle on a combat damage ship less viable. All sorts of ideas for that.

Essentially, the best way I can think of going over SP is to have those general core skills as part of the initial NPE for now, then when they are done, the remaining SP can be earned and allocated through the career agents which will give basic advice on more specialized SP allocation.

I did say for now, If the mechanics were re-balanced, I would eventually say be done with core mechanics and instead relate them to more basic combat skills. Core skills such as capacitor and fitting shouldn't be basic ones. They should have more of an effect, but be a decision of if it is more important than other parts. Find that point in which is this to level five really needing to be "mandatory" anymore outside of heavy top fit T2 setups.

50k, 400k, when does it stop? When are we at that happy number and when does it have validity? When I started, the skills were determined almost Bethesda style. Taking core attributes and getting skills for them related to my personal choices. Maybe we need to get back to that?

We don't want to make the SP be too different from how it actually works, but much like the elimination of learning skills, the absolute must have no matter what core skills, that is just redundant time sink...

The problems I see with "awarding" it or having it given in an accelerated manner is that those are more suited to alt creation then helpful to new players.

An example: Lets say that for a variety of starting experiences we want a day one new player to be able to use a T1 miner, repair and resist mod for the racially favored tank, tackle and ewar.

With more accelerated training: The vet simply skips the recommended skills and devotes the full training time to their purpose build. The new player meanwhile, has a strong risk of missing the message if they strike out on their own vs whatever path is supposed to grant the skills and/or guide them about the training queue. Really, the only thing gained with accelerated training is the ability to squander it.

With gifted SP: Vets know the shortest paths to get the SP gifts and apply them in the most efficient manner to start off the new character. New players on the other hand get an introduction to the skill system that doesn't actually reflect the way training works at any point outside of that tutorial. Further their lack of understanding of the skills creates the potential for costly mistakes, negating any help the gift was intended to give.

Now yes, there are corps and other help channels, but if initial player capabilities is still a concern that means Q&A isn't the only answer. Something about the actual user experience of early skilling and possible mod use was found lacking I'd imagine. Otherwise, yes, this doesn't make sense.

I'm not sure I understand what's meant by "Newbies can automatically fly any t1 ship." Also, what mods became more accessible to new players outside of this change and how? It feels like I seem to be missing a change or 2 that adds something to the reasoning.

Are you referring to tiericide? That hasn't changed module prereqs doesn't exactly make T1 ship access "automatic" but it's the only thing even remotely related I could think of.

Propulsion jamming I is included in the new starting skills.

Miniluv must love these changes, makes creating the "10 Hour Hero" that much easier.

Definitely go all the way. Don't forget to give all new players a titan too.

It gives a bad taste, when someone recently started to play this game and do not have all this SP and skill books...