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Would it be possible for CCP to make Eve Online free to play?

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Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#241 - 2015-09-09 21:56:04 UTC
Verstal wrote:

How about thinking instead free to play - free for noobs or new players. Slight change in your thinking and opening your mind might give you a better game with more people to do things with or to.

So there's this principle in EvE called Malcanis' Law...




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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
#242 - 2015-09-09 22:00:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Verstal
Lan Wang wrote:
Verstal wrote:
Deck Cadelanne wrote:
Kind of hoping ISD just closes this thread.

OP is obviously one of these "legend in his own mind" types who thinks he's a genius but of course has never actually put his own chips down and bet on it.

F2P is a terrible idea, vast majority of the EVE community appears to agree, go find another dead horse to whip on.


How about thinking instead free to play - free for noobs or new players. Slight change in your thinking and opening your mind might give you a better game with more people to do things with or to.


yeah that sounds great lets just all recycle characters to make isk and whatever else we need free alts to do topkek


Free to play alts have good limitations on them and by basing it on skillpoints the account would inactive once you reached that point reason I said X instead of fixed number is that it could be tuned based on CCP player data.

The original trial period was 14 days when i started and gave them money on my 2nd day instantly hooked. Also started a second account the 2nd day and was using it as a hauling alt when you could drive a trial account and main account at the same time which they prevent now.

Another idea would be that if you created a training alt hit the limit with the intent to sell it but you cant sell a character on a trial account so older players that wanted a spy alt, or super cap sitting alt could use this to train it for free before paying for it to be useful themselves or someone else.

One benefit for free training is If you left the game for a period you would have more motivation to log on again to change your skills.

Logging on again is a good thing.

More money for CCP is a good thing.

Large community good.
Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
#243 - 2015-09-09 22:05:35 UTC
Verstal wrote:
.

Large community good.


Why? Is quantity better than quality?

At it's peak PCU has EvE ever been seen as a truly large game by most standards?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#244 - 2015-09-09 22:06:58 UTC
…except that F2P alts would require far more stringent and harsh restrictions than a trial, or it will be abused to the point of breaking the game. There is also nothing to suggest that it would mean more money for CCP — quite the opposite, again due to those alts.

And no, “large" is not the same as “good."
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
#245 - 2015-09-09 22:16:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Verstal
Vortexo VonBrenner wrote:
Verstal wrote:

How about thinking instead free to play - free for noobs or new players. Slight change in your thinking and opening your mind might give you a better game with more people to do things with or to.

So there's this principle in EvE called Malcanis' Law...






Malcanis law is an interesting read.

Does he make games for a living still? If so which ones?

I don't agree with this law, better to design based on human nature. Some people in the world actually try to help other people.

The most popular orgs in Eve help new players and put a lot of time and effort into developing new players.

If that investment can be helped more people will love playing Eve.
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
#246 - 2015-09-09 22:24:38 UTC
Lex Gabinia wrote:
Verstal wrote:
.

Large community good.


Why? Is quantity better than quality?

At it's peak PCU has EvE ever been seen as a truly large game by most standards?


Lex do you have any ideas that could help a new player out?

Have you watched Rookie chat the last few hours?

Humans in trouble => help please.

Gamers are gamers man, we all love games. Help 20 noobs!
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#247 - 2015-09-09 22:34:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Verstal wrote:
Malcanis law is an interesting read.

I don't agree with this law, better to design based on human nature.
Malcanis's Law is based on observable human nature within the Eve universe, it applies especially to the Eve universe given the freedom of choice and action present within it that would get you permabanned elsewhere.

If it makes life easier for newbies then it makes life even easier for experienced players using new characters due to their pre-existing knowledge.

Quote:
Some people in the world actually try to help other people.

The most popular orgs in Eve help new players and put a lot of time and effort into developing new players.
You're correct that some people actually try to help others, for many reasons, some do it for advantage, some do it to share their knowledge etc.

Out of interest I'd love to see which groups you consider as putting a lot of time and effort into helping new players.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
#248 - 2015-09-09 22:56:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Verstal
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Verstal wrote:
Malcanis law is an interesting read.

I don't agree with this law, better to design based on human nature.
Malcanis's Law is based on observable human nature within the Eve universe, it applies especially to the Eve universe given the freedom of choice and action present within it that would get you permabanned elsewhere.

If it makes life easier for newbies then it makes life even easier for experienced players using new characters due to their pre-existing knowledge.

Quote:
Some people in the world actually try to help other people.

The most popular orgs in Eve help new players and put a lot of time and effort into developing new players.
You're correct that some people actually try to help others, for many reasons, some do it for advantage, some do it to share their knowledge etc.

Out of interest I'd love to see which groups you consider as putting a lot of time and effort into helping new players.


I consider any group that has puts in any "real world" effort to help the population in general or what is labeled a team which has gone beyond an average customers (playing the game) effort to enhance players enjoyment of the Eve Online product. Not just new players but all players in some cases.

This is list not complete but a start. If you have names you want added because they helped you out I will update the list. ty. This is my personal list.

General:
Eve University
Dotlan
Evemaps
Early and current groups that created the Killboard system
EveWho
Everyone that wrote a tutorial on PVE content
EveMon past and present
EFT team
EvElopedia
Verite
Chriba

Teams: These groups all created external services to help their own player community with RL resources.
Goons
Brave
Red/Blue
BoB
IAC
AAA
RZR
CoT
Shadow of XDeath
CVA
RED
Solar
PL

Again list not complete but a start, the efforts of all these groups created content for Eve Online they help people get more enjoyment out of the product.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#249 - 2015-09-09 23:06:06 UTC
Your list is more complete than I thought it would be, you included some that many leave out due to personal bias.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#250 - 2015-09-09 23:14:25 UTC
Verstal wrote:
Free to play alts have good limitations on them and by basing it on skillpoints the account would inactive once you reached that point reason I said X instead of fixed number is that it could be tuned based on CCP player data.

The original trial period was 14 days when i started and gave them money on my 2nd day instantly hooked. Also started a second account the 2nd day and was using it as a hauling alt when you could drive a trial account and main account at the same time which they prevent now.

Another idea would be that if you created a training alt hit the limit with the intent to sell it but you cant sell a character on a trial account so older players that wanted a spy alt, or super cap sitting alt could use this to train it for free before paying for it to be useful themselves or someone else.

One benefit for free training is If you left the game for a period you would have more motivation to log on again to change your skills.

Logging on again is a good thing.

More money for CCP is a good thing.

Large community good.


So you're telling me I could start 20 FTP alts, post them on all WHs nearby and have mindlessly easy intel and warpins?

I could start 20 FTP alts, train them into a prototype cloak and AFK camp the systems of anyone I don't like?

I could start 100 FTP PI alts and just rake in ISK?

No, that wouldn't be abused at all.
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
#251 - 2015-09-09 23:25:20 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Your list is more complete than I thought it would be, you included some that many leave out due to personal bias.


I have a lot of respect for people that put effort into a game even if they get a benefit in that product. I come from the FPS world where the MOD community shaped and even created games that are the most popular in the world right now.

CS:GO, League, DOTA2 all came from mod authors. All the companies that created the original products released Mod Tools which were used to make the first versions of these games.

The amazing thing about the CCP community is that CCP never gave the community tools.

All the effort came from a passion for the product and in some cases working around CCP to get the results they desired.

It's amazing effort and I have used a lot of these tools for years to increase my enjoyment of Eve. If EFT had a timer counting time in use on a server I am sure I have had that one program open for days of my life, trying to squeeze every bit out the ship I am working on.

When you can kill over 1000 people in a month sometimes the only thing that keeps you going is that kill board tick and the race you are in against the rest of the game is represented on a 2D score board hey its better then nothing, I love those guys.

My effort in writing these ideas and feedback down for CCP is my small way of doing something for community, its very small to what others have done but its what I can do by myself.
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
#252 - 2015-09-09 23:32:50 UTC
Cidanel Afuran wrote:
Verstal wrote:
Free to play alts have good limitations on them and by basing it on skillpoints the account would inactive once you reached that point reason I said X instead of fixed number is that it could be tuned based on CCP player data.

The original trial period was 14 days when i started and gave them money on my 2nd day instantly hooked. Also started a second account the 2nd day and was using it as a hauling alt when you could drive a trial account and main account at the same time which they prevent now.

Another idea would be that if you created a training alt hit the limit with the intent to sell it but you cant sell a character on a trial account so older players that wanted a spy alt, or super cap sitting alt could use this to train it for free before paying for it to be useful themselves or someone else.

One benefit for free training is If you left the game for a period you would have more motivation to log on again to change your skills.

Logging on again is a good thing.

More money for CCP is a good thing.

Large community good.


So you're telling me I could start 20 FTP alts, post them on all WHs nearby and have mindlessly easy intel and warpins?

I could start 20 FTP alts, train them into a prototype cloak and AFK camp the systems of anyone I don't like?

I could start 100 FTP PI alts and just rake in ISK?

No, that wouldn't be abused at all.


Can you run that many trial accounts at the same time? Have you tried it lately? I have a trial alt right now that I need to log off to login paid characters accounts. Your examples are for exploit not a new user.
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#253 - 2015-09-09 23:36:27 UTC
Verstal wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Your list is more complete than I thought it would be, you included some that many leave out due to personal bias.


I have a lot of respect for people that put effort into a game even if they get a benefit in that product. I come from the FPS world where the MOD community shaped and even created games that are the most popular in the world right now.




Problem i see here.....EvE is not an FPS, so your ideas are half ass backwards.

just 1 more comment here....if EvE became FtP, especially in the sense your making about new characters without thinking of the abuse that would occur....i think i also would leave the game, and take all my cousins and immediate family that play this game with me....and believe me together we might be considered a drop in the bucket, but our accounts tallied together and the yearly subs we do pay is a substantial amount in revenue that would be missed if I was not the only one that suddenly dropped and went some where else.

As one person said already...if your a troll, quit already you won....
If you honestly believe what your saying....well I think you need to quit EvE itself before you do any harm to it.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#254 - 2015-09-09 23:40:52 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Your list is more complete than I thought it would be, you included some that many leave out due to personal bias.
Influence map archive such as this. Who would leave out EVE Uni? unless they are not on some influence map.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
#255 - 2015-09-09 23:52:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Verstal
Max Deveron wrote:
Verstal wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Your list is more complete than I thought it would be, you included some that many leave out due to personal bias.


I have a lot of respect for people that put effort into a game even if they get a benefit in that product. I come from the FPS world where the MOD community shaped and even created games that are the most popular in the world right now.




Problem i see here.....EvE is not an FPS, so your ideas are half ass backwards.

just 1 more comment here....if EvE became FtP, especially in the sense your making about new characters without thinking of the abuse that would occur....i think i also would leave the game, and take all my cousins and immediate family that play this game with me....and believe me together we might be considered a drop in the bucket, but our accounts tallied together and the yearly subs we do pay is a substantial amount in revenue that would be missed if I was not the only one that suddenly dropped and went some where else.

As one person said already...if your a troll, quit already you won....
If you honestly believe what your saying....well I think you need to quit EvE itself before you do any harm to it.


Abuse? Lets run through this, how many accounts do you think are created with rule set being used now for character creation? For this example let's use 1000 per day, out of 1000 new players only 10 survive the first month, 5 the second month, 1 the third month and .1 for 6 months. Scale this up by a factor of 10 or 100 none of these numbers are good these days.

If are you happy with this outcome and think this is a good overall for CCP and Eve we have a very different way of looking at this subject.
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
#256 - 2015-09-09 23:55:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Verstal
Webvan wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Your list is more complete than I thought it would be, you included some that many leave out due to personal bias.
Influence map archive such as this. Who would leave out EVE Uni? unless they are not on some influence map.


Like I stated a few times the list isn't complete, and you are right they should be on the list I will add them now.

ADD++ There ya go!
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#257 - 2015-09-10 00:09:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Deveron
Verstal wrote:
Max Deveron wrote:
Verstal wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Your list is more complete than I thought it would be, you included some that many leave out due to personal bias.


I have a lot of respect for people that put effort into a game even if they get a benefit in that product. I come from the FPS world where the MOD community shaped and even created games that are the most popular in the world right now.




Problem i see here.....EvE is not an FPS, so your ideas are half ass backwards.

just 1 more comment here....if EvE became FtP, especially in the sense your making about new characters without thinking of the abuse that would occur....i think i also would leave the game, and take all my cousins and immediate family that play this game with me....and believe me together we might be considered a drop in the bucket, but our accounts tallied together and the yearly subs we do pay is a substantial amount in revenue that would be missed if I was not the only one that suddenly dropped and went some where else.

As one person said already...if your a troll, quit already you won....
If you honestly believe what your saying....well I think you need to quit EvE itself before you do any harm to it.


Abuse? Lets run through this, how many accounts do you think are created with rule set being used now for character creation? For this example let's use 1000 per day, out of 1000 new players only 10 survive the first month, 5 the second month, 1 the third month and .1 for 6 months. Scale this up by a factor of 10 or 100 none of these numbers are good these days.

Edit: oh yeah it takes minutes to create email accounts enough to do this also....did I mention my family plays this game as well?

If are you happy with this outcome and think this is a good overall for CCP and Eve we have a very different way of looking at this subject.


OK, lets do this then...and i would show how a 100 man multibox fleet could quickly wreck new players in a single day...becasue those characters would be considered new players....and before you mention IP bans and what all...i have literally 78 places to go for different IP's all within 3 hrs of me....not too mention public places. 1 day, and i would not be the only doing it in ibis, velator, reapers or what not to prove a point before walking out the door.....this is the chaos you are proposing...a week of that plus the occasional FOM or FOW group continuing to do it and EvE wold die really quickly.....that is what your are proposing....because that is the nature of EvE players.
Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
#258 - 2015-09-10 00:11:26 UTC
Verstal wrote:
Lex Gabinia wrote:
Verstal wrote:
.

Large community good.


Why? Is quantity better than quality?

At it's peak PCU has EvE ever been seen as a truly large game by most standards?


Lex do you have any ideas that could help a new player out?

Have you watched Rookie chat the last few hours?

Humans in trouble => help please.

Gamers are gamers man, we all love games. Help 20 noobs!


Once again, when asked a direct question you pivot to another matter altogether.

There are multiple resources available to new players of which they can choose to avail themselves. A simple internet search leads to a plethora of options.

EVE was not designed to be a simple tower defense game. It is a game which requires thought, choices, strategy and a bit of learning. This games offers so many varied paths that it is unreasonable to expect to master them all in thirty to sixty days. To a certain type of gamer this is appealing because there is always more to learn and try. That is the gamer for which and by which EvE was created. Yes, EvE takes a modicum of effort to learn initially, but offers great rewards through the varied gameplay available long term.
Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
#259 - 2015-09-10 00:12:57 UTC
Verstal wrote:


Abuse? Lets run through this, how many accounts do you think are created with rule set being used now for character creation? For this example let's use 1000 per day, out of 1000 new players only 10 survive the first month, 5 the second month, 1 the third month and .1 for 6 months. Scale this up by a factor of 10 or 100 none of these numbers are good these days.

If are you happy with this outcome and think this is a good overall for CCP and Eve we have a very different way of looking at this subject.


Source? Or are you just making numbers up.... again?
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
#260 - 2015-09-10 01:52:41 UTC
Lex Gabinia wrote:
Verstal wrote:
Lex Gabinia wrote:
Verstal wrote:
.

Large community good.


Why? Is quantity better than quality?

At it's peak PCU has EvE ever been seen as a truly large game by most standards?


Lex do you have any ideas that could help a new player out?

Have you watched Rookie chat the last few hours?

Humans in trouble => help please.

Gamers are gamers man, we all love games. Help 20 noobs!


Once again, when asked a direct question you pivot to another matter altogether.

There are multiple resources available to new players of which they can choose to avail themselves. A simple internet search leads to a plethora of options.

EVE was not designed to be a simple tower defense game. It is a game which requires thought, choices, strategy and a bit of learning. This games offers so many varied paths that it is unreasonable to expect to master them all in thirty to sixty days. To a certain type of gamer this is appealing because there is always more to learn and try. That is the gamer for which and by which EvE was created. Yes, EvE takes a modicum of effort to learn initially, but offers great rewards through the varied gameplay available long term.



Have you helped 20 players in Eve yet? Players that are trying to learn the game you play right now. People "players" trying to learn the game as it is right now?

Let me know when you have I will continue responding to your posts, for now your are muted.