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Would it be possible for CCP to make Eve Online free to play?

First post
Author
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#201 - 2015-09-09 03:10:16 UTC
Verstal wrote:


A lot of people get very excited by the videos of eve and then get hit with reality and give up because they know they cant catch up.



What? Catch up to what, you can get into PVP or missions or whatever you want to do and be successful from your very first day.
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#202 - 2015-09-09 07:51:45 UTC
I guess CCP could make a new game based on EVE, using existing assets, that is centered around fair fights. Something like a MOBA or something that uses rules similar to the Alliance Tournament. That would probably be more sensible than trying to force EVE over to F2P. It still wouldn't pull in DOTA/LOL money though. Because it would still be spaceships. The masses want stupid looking characters in a cartoony style.
Captain Awkward
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#203 - 2015-09-09 08:14:26 UTC
Verstal wrote:
CCP also has always had this issue of players effecting their customers as we are all in sandbox, Expert players can ruin the excitement for Eve very quickly losing that customer forever. This could be customer that would have been willing to spend up to 500-1000 dollars on the product for subscription fees.


This is actually not true. Many EvE players, including myself, tryed out the game multiple times before they finally stayed to play it for a longer period of time. I came back for the exact reason that, after i saw how complex EvE was, no other game out there could live up to that standard.

People stayed in the game even when there was no new player experiance.

Can the new player experiance be improved ? Sure.
Do we want to change the game drastically just to keep some new players that would otherwise leave ? Hell no.

Verstal wrote:
My role is a hybrid very rare - Programmer - Artist - Designer - Producer = They call us Technical Directors these days since we can touch so much of the product to improve the quality or build a small part of the game by ourselves with our own hands with out breaking the entire game while doing so.


The thread title still talks about F2P which is a pretey drastical change that would effect ALL parts of the game. As many people (including CCP) have stated multiple times over the years, this would break the entire game. Now take a look at your own definition of a good "Technical Director".

Throughout this thread, starting with your opening post, you just put random ideas in this thread without thinking them through first. You keep talking in vague visions instead of finished solid concepts. Im a software designer myself and I can tell you : You realy do still have a lot to learn.
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#204 - 2015-09-09 08:25:37 UTC
Verstal wrote:
CCP also has always had this issue of players effecting their customers as we are all in sandbox, Expert players can ruin the excitement for Eve very quickly losing that customer forever. This could be customer that would have been willing to spend up to 500-1000 dollars on the product for subscription fees.


do you think f2p games are any different? all f2p games are is competition on who has the biggest credit card balance, these "coiners" or "expert players" still go around roflstomping everything its not just in eve its every game.

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#205 - 2015-09-09 08:35:21 UTC
Verstal wrote:
I posted some of the ideas to help CCP

None of your ideas help them because they are so completely out of touch with the reality of this game and of gaming in general.

Quote:
My role is a hybrid very rare - Programmer - Artist - Designer - Producer
Actually, that role is very common. You see it all the time in Kickstarer spiels, where a guy has some grandiose idea and some experience in tinkering, but no idea how to actually make something that works, much less a compelling product.
Captain Awkward
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#206 - 2015-09-09 08:57:19 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Actually, that role is very common. You see it all the time in Kickstarer spiels, where a guy has some grandiose idea and some experience in tinkering, but no idea how to actually make something that works, much less a compelling product.


I think we got a little Chris Roberts here.

...

Sorry couldnt stop myself.Twisted
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#207 - 2015-09-09 09:08:01 UTC
Verstal wrote:
They actually get angry at CCP saying things like, "what a scam or rip off.".


Then this isn't a game for them. Make them try the trial, and if they find it interesting they'll stay, otherwise they'll leave.

I'd rather have fellow patient gamers in EVE than impatient ones who want everything served at their feet.
Aoife Fraoch
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#208 - 2015-09-09 09:21:32 UTC
Captain Awkward wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Actually, that role is very common. You see it all the time in Kickstarer spiels, where a guy has some grandiose idea and some experience in tinkering, but no idea how to actually make something that works, much less a compelling product.


I think we got a little Chris Roberts here.

...

Sorry couldnt stop myself.Twisted


Don't apologise, the comparison is apt. Well, except Chris Roberts has charisma.

And probably can at least keep his market size numbers straight.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#209 - 2015-09-09 10:37:13 UTC
Verstal wrote:
CCP gets some free work because I love Eve
You work for CCP? Shocked

As for "love", are you sure it's not like my last GF that luvd me because of what she thought she could change me into? You know, that stuff always works out really well Straight ... Maybe you should think about joining your friends in that f2p game if you don't feel CCP is doing the right thing with EVE. Though I suppose that may mean you'd need to quit working for CCP Lol
Our loss I suppose Sad

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Hiren Vekaria
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#210 - 2015-09-09 10:40:31 UTC
the balance will be disturbed.
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#211 - 2015-09-09 11:22:41 UTC
i ask my money back for all those years. Because the are making the bad dissensions and there are losing money its not my fault that the f*ck it up so i want my money back.

I dont ask for ftp game i ask to play my game when en how i want and thats it. The give me the tools i play it. If thats a problem some people need to reconsider there options in this game. Or play a other game.
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#212 - 2015-09-09 11:30:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Johan Civire wrote:
i ask my money back for all those years. Because the are making the bad dissensions and there are losing money its not my fault that the f*ck it up so i want my money back.

I dont ask for ftp game i ask to play my game when en how i want and thats it. The give me the tools i play it. If thats a problem some people need to reconsider there options in this game. Or play a other game.


hmmm i dont think anyone gets subscription money back from previous months because the new vision of company does no longer appeal to your vision. the joy of subscriptions are you are not tied to a contract so if your unhappy go away and get over it because you wont get any money back for using the service for so many years.

i really hate entitled idiots like yourself

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#213 - 2015-09-09 15:09:39 UTC
Asking for money back because current does not represent past is a strange point...

I mean if you were investing for futures instead of current returns, I can see the dilemma.

Lets take an example. Movies. How about the Matrix.


You pay for first one, cause is good.

Pay for second one and often can leave satisfied, but disappointed at cliffhanger ending.

Pay for third and many are disappointed.


Because the sequel is bad, you demand refund for being satisfied initially??? You got what you paid for...

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.

Pryce Caesar
Cloak and Daggers
Initiative Mercenaries
#214 - 2015-09-09 15:23:54 UTC
Tweaker083 wrote:
The reason it is not F2P keeps me playing.
Cant imagine all the F2P Trolls in this game there would be and even more Jita spammers.... o.O

If you dont wanna pay money for it, play something else or get PLEX with ISK.



Pretty much, but the thing about PLEX is that the price has been increasing over the years (I only hear whispers of the time where it was around 350 million or something like that) precisely because more and more players have the capacity to accumulate funds at a fast enough pace to buy PLEX in bulk. For example, it's a cake-walk for anyone who regular runs Incursions to buy PLEX easy if they're good enough at it.
Arla Sarain
#215 - 2015-09-09 15:25:04 UTC
You are not going to attract any new players to the game that's 12 years old and where access to piloting ships is time locked.

Why invest time skilling up to fly a Golem and other blingy top of the line or even the meta stuff, if the game might die any moment. Sure, we know it won't die spontaneously, but the newbro has no guarantee of that.

There is little trust that can be given to EVE.

There is little reason to start playing EvE now, outside of feeding your own curiosity. I've been here for almost 600days and I still can't fly T3Cs, only just trained up HAC and LOGI IV. Sure I could have gotten them sooner if I focused the training. But it's like "have sov or have fun". You either have fun exploring the innards of this game OR you chase everyone else, being part of a race you will never win.

You can't argue that "being PvP capable in a week old rifter" is an incentive to stay. It's merely an incentive to try out the game. With the span of 1 week how many newbros will find themselves in a situation where they are tackling something a rifter...? And apart from that, what else do they get to do apart from missions.

There is also the decade old argument about "instant gratification" or some BS, which seems as a biased concern coming solely from people who are worried that the time they invested will suddenly be largely devalued if other newer people didn't have to go through the same ****** "waiting game" ritual.
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
#216 - 2015-09-09 15:49:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Verstal
Arla Sarain wrote:
You are not going to attract any new players to the game that's 12 years old and where access to piloting ships is time locked.

Why invest time skilling up to fly a Golem and other blingy top of the line or even the meta stuff, if the game might die any moment. Sure, we know it won't die spontaneously, but the newbro has no guarantee of that.

There is little trust that can be given to EVE.

There is little reason to start playing EvE now, outside of feeding your own curiosity. I've been here for almost 600days and I still can't fly T3Cs, only just trained up HAC and LOGI IV. Sure I could have gotten them sooner if I focused the training. But it's like "have sov or have fun". You either have fun exploring the innards of this game OR you chase everyone else, being part of a race you will never win.

You can't argue that "being PvP capable in a week old rifter" is an incentive to stay. It's merely an incentive to try out the game. With the span of 1 week how many newbros will find themselves in a situation where they are tackling something a rifter...? And apart from that, what else do they get to do apart from missions.

There is also the decade old argument about "instant gratification" or some BS, which seems as a biased concern coming solely from people who are worried that the time they invested will suddenly be largely devalued if other newer people didn't have to go through the same ****** "waiting game" ritual.


Yes most of the people that try the game leave about 95% a very specific player with a very specific type personality stays for more then 3 months.

The goal of the ideas on page 1 are to give the players an experience that will keep them excited and a little eye candy and emotional pay off running missions and continuing the story that is given in the intro movie and or hype video that my have inspired the download.

None of the ideas should "break" Eve Online, but I could be wrong. Some of the ideas are dedicated to older players to help newer players, and a new payoff for concurring null sec.

Other ideas are for people that are in the first stages of addiction to the product and want to accelerate the race but also dont want to be stuck with legacy history that comes from purchasing a character.

All the ideas have a financial upside for CCP, I feel the longer a new player continues to login the more chance they will find a gameplay style they will enjoy and be willing to pay for.

How do you feel about those ideas would they have helped enjoy the product more during the 1-3 months?

For the contributors to this thread, I would ask a few things open up the rookie chat help window and leave it open for a few days, contribute to helping new players or just watch the questions that come through, it should give you a better perspective on what new players experience.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#217 - 2015-09-09 16:04:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Verstal wrote:
The goal of the ideas on page 1 are to give the players an experience that will keep them excited and a little eye candy and emotional pay off running missions and continuing the story that is given in the intro movie and or hype video that my have inspired the download.
The only way of doing that is to not run missions since they have nothing to do with the story — they're just a way to regulate how fast currency is injected into the in-game market. EVE is not a game about consuming a narrative; it's about creating one. Missions — indeed anything involving NPCs — are in every way utterly and completely irrelevant to this end.

Quote:
None of the ideas should "break" Eve Online, but I could be wrong.
The whole idea of F2P — you know, the topic of the thread — would, as would many of the ideas you've suggested, in particular everything you label as “clean slate”. The rest simply don't have anything to do with the topic you've now swung towards since they don't address any kind of new-player concern.
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
#218 - 2015-09-09 16:19:38 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Verstal wrote:
The goal of the ideas on page 1 are to give the players an experience that will keep them excited and a little eye candy and emotional pay off running missions and continuing the story that is given in the intro movie and or hype video that my have inspired the download.
The only way of doing that is to not run missions since they have nothing to do with the story — they're just a way to regulate how fast currency is injected into the in-game market. EVE is not a game about consuming a narrative; it's about creating one. Missions — indeed anything involving NPCs — are in every way utterly and completely irrelevant to this end.

Quote:
None of the ideas should "break" Eve Online, but I could be wrong.
The whole idea of F2P — you know, the topic of the thread — would, as would many of the ideas you've suggested, in particular everything you label as “clean slate”. The rest simply don't have anything to do with the topic you've now swung towards since they don't address any kind of new-player concern.


How many years have you been playing the game?

Take a deep breath, take a large step back, and clear your mind of everything you know of Eve and look at the game with those eyes. You have taken your first step to being a game designer or game developer not just a consumer / player. Go watch Rookie chat for a few days like I have been.

When you start this game you have no idea about what NPC's contribute to the overall game. How could know by the information given?

I know you are smart person and have contributed a lot but your letting your own understanding of the game get in the way of seeing the game as new players do.

Trust me on this I have trained game designers for 15+ years, you have the components of that level of thinking, but a core to being a professional game designer / developer is taking what you know and throwing it away. Then looking at your product and or ideas with fresh eyes.

This is very hard to do for most people even me when I am in the heat of the battle.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#219 - 2015-09-09 16:25:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Verstal wrote:
How many years have you been playing the game?

Take a deep breath, take a large step back, and clear your mind of everything you know of Eve and look at the game with those eyes. You have taken your first step to being a game designer or game developer not just a consumer / player. Go watch Rookie chat for a few days like I have been.

It's about the same as it has always been, except that new players have far more information and guidance — in and out of game — than ever before.

Quote:
How could know by the information given?
By reading up on the game for, oh, 5 minutes before starting to play. It's fairly obvious by how player activity is given all the focus every time the game is mentioned, especially in the huge splashy stories that make an international media impact.

Quote:
Trust me on this I have trained game designers for 15+ years
If these are the kinds of harmful ideas you come up with, and which you have taught them to come up with, they should probably ask for their money back. You keep throwing out all these ideas without any consideration of whether or not they work for the purpose of… well, anything, really, but definitely for the purpose of making EVE a better game.

The fundamental issue you seem to have missed is that EVE is a niche game. You also seem to have missed the fact that this isn't a bad thing.
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
#220 - 2015-09-09 16:28:43 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Verstal wrote:
How many years have you been playing the game?

Take a deep breath, take a large step back, and clear your mind of everything you know of Eve and look at the game with those eyes. You have taken your first step to being a game designer or game developer not just a consumer / player. Go watch Rookie chat for a few days like I have been.

It's about the same as it has always been, except that new players have far more information and guidance — in and out of game — than ever before.

Quote:
How could know by the information given?
By reading up on the game for, oh, 5 minutes before starting to play. It's fairly obvious by how player activity is given all the focus every time the game is mentioned, especially in the huge splashy stories that make an international media impact.

Quote:
Trust me on this I have trained game designers for 15+ years
If these are the kinds of harmful ideas you come up with, and which you have taught them to come up with, they should probably ask for their money back. You keep throwing out all these ideas without any consideration of whether or not they work for the purpose of… well, anything, really, but definitely for the purpose of making EVE a better game.

The fundamental issue you seem to have missed is that EVE is a niche game. You also seem to have missed the fact that this isn't a bad thing.


Maybe you missed the question, how long have you been playing Eve?