EVE General Discussion

Perfect example of the wrong headed thinking that actually created the problem (because CCP thought this same way). You fundamentally don't understand where Tippia is coming from, because where he's coming from is a place of honest analysis of the past.

The highlighted part describes the prejudice (in this case, against pvp) that clouds judgement. It's the same prejudice that gets people saying "you just want me to pvp" when in fact no one gives a crap about how you play. You aren't only fighting against the truth (in this case, the truth being Tip's analysis of the past), your fighting against an imaginary enemy (the evil "everyone must PVP" strawman only people like you created).

Tell me this Lucas Kell. What if you are wrong? What if all your enabling and coddling of the "downtrodden second class citizens" you defend turned out to be the thing that was the problem? What if it was actually you (maybe not you personally, but they way you think, good intentions yes, but bad results)?

What if it was you killing EVE?

Your "opinion" as false, is completely irrelevant to me.

I stand by my original position:

A good start would be to make existing PvE activities involve more player competition and conflict.

This makes it less of a grind and far more interesting and exciting for everyone involved, as well as conducive to player-sourced content creation.

After that, new forms of PvE with new forms of player competition and conflict could be built upon existing systems.

EVE is a PvP environment.
Anything and everything (including PvE) must include substantial degrees of this.
The more the better.

This is what makes EVE the game it is, and defines it on the market.
It is its strongest and longest lasting selling point, and its niche.
Competition and conflict between all players in a shared sandbox.
Everyone vs Everyone.

If people want to grind PvE in a safe environment, there are any number of games they can do so in.
Those are not the market segment which EVE targets, and those other games are systemically better suited towards catering to that kind of player.

i don't think PvE for ISK is really the issue. standings requirements and damage from PvE is really a fetter of eve tho.

i don't think there's a good chance of me ever doing L4s for serpentis corporation, and the character i had running FW missions is now scannign holes down in thera and can't pop his head into amarr k-space for too long.

gj getting rid of JC requirements though.

I agree and disagree with your post, but that is spot on.

I almost posted something like it on pve a little while ago, but meh and went back to index. The point was though, though I like pve, there is already enough of it, and adding more wont improve a thing, just like many other pve games having kept adding more and more and it was never good enough to save their game. Plenty of pve and pvp content/opportunity already, imo EVE just needs more player tools to create content. Better management of what we already have... e.g. like if the new beta map actually does become an improvement, a lot could be done with that.

But yeah, it's obvious, every time one of these threads starts, it's EVE is Dying™ and a list of their demands. One demand if I recall of the OP was making the game safer for industrialists (miners and/or cargo). EVE is Dying™, trust me, now make this game like the other game I got bored of and quit. Better off w/o them.

Then we have nothing to discuss as your opinion is also irrelevant to me (since I think fundamentally changing existing mechanics is only good for removing players from the game). That's all any of us have here, our opinions. If you can't have a reasonable discussion then there's no point reading your posts and nothing to be said to you. Good day sir.

Whatever you say Gevlon.

Like I said before, I'm not being dragged into circular arguments with you.

There's nothing circular about it. It's just a cul-de-sac, where every step you take down it is in the wrong direction and yet you keep going because you believe “cul-de-sac” means there will be some free cheese at the other end.

Lucas forgets that some of us that primarily partake of, what are seen to be, PvE activities don't subscribe to the common refrains of our fellow PvE players.

I've read almsot every post Tip has posted in this forum for years, and he's never said anyhting like that.

Even if he did, how do yo account for me (and others, like Jonah)? You mistake a person saying "understand the reality you are in" for someone saying "you must play in a way i find acceptable". That's the power of prejudice, it creates those kinds of misinterpertations, and I've beeen a victim of it too. I've had to explain to people "I don't car ehow you play, I'm advising you that being aware of the realites is a smarter move than being oblivious and getting mad after the fact of you ship exploding".



Damn, I actually hadn't read this part before right now when I'm quioting it. You PROVE what I'm saying about prejudice.

I'm mainly a PVEr (I consider pvp a mildly entertaining 'cost' of doing business), and I tell people to HTFU, and i risk plenty btw.



Are we about to go another 17 pages before your anger subsides long enough for you to admit that Tip is right and you're wrong again?

Do you see why i always try to point out the error of your ways to you, you keep doing it, over and over. That's your fault, not Tips (and surely not mine).




The bolded part is evidence of a deeply selfish way of looking at things. You don't care if CCP makes a good product, you just want them to keep making money so you can keep playing a video game that (according to you) isn't even as fun as Elite:D lol.

And that you doubt that it's your way of thinking killing EVE is no surprise. People rarely understand the flaw in their own motivations. Unfortunately, you've always telegraphed your own motivations. You motivation for more people in EVE (beyond the selfish one I identify above) is that you don't like the EVE community, and you think more people coming to eve will drown out or force out the people you don't like.

I saw that and knew that about you the 1st time I read one of your posts, every post you make (dripping with hatred of your 'enemy') simply confirms what I already know. You have to be able to let go of petty hatred in order to see clearly, and you can't, which is why Tip keeps thumping you....publicly.

I guarantee you will leave this game before, or at the same time that I do.

Hush now. You're too verbose to troll as effectively as you aim to.

I don't forget that, I just see the posts get filled with trolls whenever anyone suggests changes to PvE that even hint at the idea of lowered risk.

The point I was making is the main culprits for sitting around going "PvE players should have more risk" are generally the most risk averse PvPers in the game. They want PvE players about as content for them, as targets. People don't want to play a game to be someone else's content though, it's supposed to be entertaining for all players involved. Stomp all over the content provided to those targets and they will move on, leaving you noone to shoot.