EVE General Discussion

But all the time you don't get ganked, it's not PvP.

Also, see my other example. Rookie systems repeating rookie missions. People aren't actually allowed to do stuff to ya.

man you are bored out of your head or stoned out of it,, can't decide which it is yet, perhaps both.

I'd agree with the newbie systems thing if not for the fact that the ships and ammo and drones, etc. needed to run missions or mine or do most of anything are still sold by.... players! Also you can't get a lot of the skills needed to manufacture a lot of what you'll need without leaving the newbie systems.

Manufacturing itself as well is affected by other people in many ways (indexes, available slots, mineral costs, BPCs).

Oh right research to get BPCs form BPOs, again, means competing with other players for slots, or pos locations, etc.

etc.

etc.

I think various definitions, viewpoints and arguments have been explored sufficiently in this ramble, to attempt and draw some preliminary conclusions and attempt to tie this all back to the original topic of player retention.

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What have we learned?

1) It is evident that there is a schism between how people perceive PvP/PvE ont only in EVE, but overall.
Though the dissenting voices are a minority, it is reasonable that they nonetheless may represent a larger player segment both in and outside of EVE itself.

2) Validity of arguments to and fro aside, it is clear, to my mind atleast, that the concrete expression of this difference ingame between PvE and PvP in EVE, is a source of dissatisfaction for those who view it differently than the majority in this thread.

3) I am concerned, and I think other participants have aired this too, that new and old players are having difficulty accepting the essential core PvP nature of EVE. They expect something different, and frame their definitions differently. So they are understandably upset and dissatisfied when EVE doesnt turn out to meet their expectations and views.

4) I think player attrition due to this dissatisfaction, is more an issue of them having expected something conpletely different, and a natural shock when the reality is far more brutal. Its not the game that pisses them off in and of itself, its that the game was not what they expected and are used to understanding.

They are used to being able to build castles in the sandbox, but in EVE, some ******* comes along and not only kicks it over, but then squats and takes a huge steaming dump on its ruins to add insult to injury. This understandably needs some getting used to considering what many players are used to in other games.

5) Getting used to loss, and naked unadulterated player aggression, used to be a big thing in MMOs. But the current overarching game culture left that a decade ago. Even then though, it still took some getting used to. The immediate and natural reaction is getting fking pissed off and rant/rage so hard your neighbors consider calling the cops.

6) But you get used to it, and start to realize that it is exactly that risk, and the opportunity it provides to you too to do the same to others, that is whatbyou eventually realize is exactly what brings excitement, commitment and a visceral intimate experience that Minecraft never can.

7) Perhaps CCP could do more to stress this essential core PvP nature to players, new and old. Its conventionally market suicide, since the understanding and trend is that such risk will mean many people used to other conventional games in the sand, will not try EVE out of fear. But on the otherhand, this is exactly what has always been EVEs core of success, and a defining feature that has niched it so hard into the market that people still play it a decade later.

8) Inline with this, player competition in non-violent means is also a core feature of EVE. Perhaps more should be do be to increase competition across all boards of activity, from mining, to exploring, to missions, to incursions, to sov etc etc.

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So in conclusion:

A) Make it clear, on absolutely no uncertain terms, that EVE will vigorously rub your face and brain against a cheese-grater the second you step into it.Really overstate it, so that there is no question about this, whatsoever.
Make it the "Here be dragons!" mark on the universal MMO map, where only the bold will go and the meak fear to tread.
This will attract many players looking for exactly that, and ensure that they are not dissatisfied due to their own false expectations.

B) Increase player competetiviness and interaction across the entire spectrum of EVE activities.
More risk, more competition in anything and everything conceivable!
These are both the core and unique selling points of EVE in an otherwise rather "safe"-style MMO market.
Use them, and exploit these strengths to their breaking point!
Then leave the rest to us, denizens of the sandbox. We'll take it from there, and pay youbfor the privilige.

C) Inversely, this will also help retain core players who are tired of EVE becoming easier and less risky.
They want MORE risk, and MORE competition. Give it to them, and they too will more readily stay.

So either way, CCP wins.
-More new players who understand (atleast superficially) what they are getting into, and dare to try it.

-EVEs concretion in the market as the undisputed end-boss of all MMOs.

-More Vet retention, as they exult in the glory of more risk and competition, which they love so much.

I'm unsubbed, thanks. This is part of the problem though isn't it. Any criticism over and above some pointless and ultimately moot discussion about some trivial game rule or mechanic isn't tolerated. And people like you, presumably the kind of personality recruited and retained easily, fill the game world.

I lasted on and off since beta 6 but mostly by avoiding interacting with players like you. No offence of course. You make Eve what it is, don't you? And what is that? Quite a mediocre video game.

hahahaha funny. still pvp

oh please stop, player vs player! regardless of the outcome, you smoking the same shite lucas is?

The only difference is consent (and possibly outcome). Beyond that, you can't have PK without PvP.


It's been around in MUDs since the birth of… well, multiplay. It gained more widespread use through The Realm and Ultima Online. It has since been largely obsoleted by the PvP term since there's usually little point in PvP if it can't lead to PK, and since it became more important to distinguish between PvP and non-PvP servers and games.

Decline in numbers... starting to turn into,,,,,,,,, blah blah blah,, where's the OP,, the little fecking troll.

Exactly.

Expanding on what i've been saying, personality/preference plays a role. People like me (PVErs who use a pvp mentality to stay safe) have fewer problems than the people who see a distinction between pve and pvp (and thus don't understand when they are out in high sec mining "minding their own business" they are in a pvp environment, and the way for them to 'pvp' would have been to fit properly, watch local, use d-scan and mine in a protective group etc etc.

Gankers hone in on that unawareness like rats on limburger, the problem isn't the ganker, it's the mindset of people in that activity.