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Decline in numbers... starting to turn into RAPID!!!

First post
Author
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#601 - 2015-08-31 16:08:32 UTC
Aaron wrote:
@ Jenn

You misunderstood me Jenn, please go back and read my posts.

Aaron wrote:
Ok Here is my 2 cents worth.

Too many Eve players are bullies and you pick on weaker pilots till they get frustrated with the game and leave. I wish more of you would consider that your own actions contribute to people leaving.

This is a dark and brutal experience where there is no sympathy for anything, not everyone can handle this vibe so be mindful of this when you want to blame CCP for numbers dropping.

I am not complaining about dark and brutal, I like it and enjoy avoiding it or finding tactics to counter it. I've prepared a small role play to push my point further;

Noob: You killed my exhumer, it took ages for me to grind for that.

Ganker: Who gives a ****, go and play WOW, or hello kitty online.

Noob: Ok I will, Bye.

This is the norm in Eve, accept that your actions have consequence and accept that it is partly you who shapes the game and affects numbers.


I have no problem with brutal and dark and Eve being rife with bullies, as I said in previous posts I enjoy avoiding it and finding tactics to survive.

My point is that the same people who are here crying about numbers dropping are the same ones who bully noobs, pve'ers etc. What I am saying is that bullying and trolling whine forums has a consequence, It has made people leave. I'm only saying for the bullies and trolls to accept this and not come on here crying because numbers are dropping.

You seem to be using the word bully out of context, using superior strength and influence to intimidate others is within the rules of the game and is a recognised activity that is encouraged by game mechanics.

While it certainly fits the real life definition of bully; in the context of Eve, its rules and mechanics and the general ambience of the game that definition is largely irrelevant and has no meaning. When people take that activity out of the context of the game is when it becomes bullying.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Whitehound
#602 - 2015-08-31 16:09:18 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Have you ever run 100m? Or a Marathon?
Fun fact: the track is not competing against you in either. In fact, it doesn't do anything — it's a track.

If it is not doing anything then why does it require energy to run 100m?

Or is your mother driving you along the 100m track by any chance?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Odie McCracken
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#603 - 2015-08-31 16:09:22 UTC
"Competitive PVE" sounds like people seeing who can get the highest score in space invaders. The Eve market you might compete to see who can get the highest score (Isk) from selling items. This is two real people trying to sell imaginary items to other real people and win by selling more. Sounds like PvP to me.

Hahaha, "Competitive PVE", that just sounds silly :)
Avvy
Doomheim
#604 - 2015-08-31 16:10:00 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Yes, there is. The track you are running on, the finishing line you are crossing, the clock and the rules defining the victor are all part of the environment.
…but they're not the competition.

Have you ever run 100m? Or a Marathon? Do the later and tell me you did not compete against the environment when you ran 42km and the road made your feet hurt and bleed.

You actually have to get up from your computer and move your feet if you wanted to run. Say Hello to gravity for me when you try to get out of your chair.



I used to run, hardest was probably a half marathon.

You compete against the environment, your own limitations, time and other competitors.
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#605 - 2015-08-31 16:10:37 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Aaron wrote:
---

Nobody is whining about new players leaving the game due to being faced with the harsh environment of EVE.

This has always been the case, and will always be the case.


Not just new players, older players too. PVe'ers, and miners.

And forgive me for reading the title of this thread properly. the OP is talking about decline in numbers so that is what I will talk about.

Now you're going to tell me the harsh environment does not affect people right? Face it, too many of you have alienated lots of our older players and at the same time made it impossible for new players to get a foothold on anything.

My eyes are open man. I remember a thread where someone posted about another player calling him a child molester he was upset by being called this and nobody had any sympathy whatsoever. He was told to stop playing by lots of people, so he took their advice and did that. 1000s of people have had similar problems and guess what? Most of them have left.

I like a dark and harsh environment.

Most of you should stop contradicting yourselves and just accept that the community is partly responsible for numbers dropping, It is silly to treat 1000s of people like **** and then cry on the forum when they've left. Stop blaming CCP for everything and look in the mirror.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#606 - 2015-08-31 16:14:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Whitehound wrote:
If it is not doing anything then why does it require energy to run 100m?

Because that's something you're doing: running. The track isn't — it's just a track. It is not competing against you; other people are (or, at best, you're competing against yourself… but that's still PvP since you are both “players”).

If your 100m or marathon turns into PvE, you should probably talk to the organisers and ask them to post shooters to keep the bears and tigers off the track…
Whitehound
#607 - 2015-08-31 16:18:44 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
If it is not doing anything then why does it require energy to run 100m?

Because that's something you're doing: running. The track isn't — it's just a track. It is not competing against you; other people are (or, at best, you're competing against yourself… but that's still PvP since you are both “players”).

While in real life your body always fights against gravity does the environment in competitive PvE not necessarily have to compete against you. You and another player might just be engaged in a race of flower picking and the one with the most flowers wins.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#608 - 2015-08-31 16:22:34 UTC
Tippia wrote:
[quote=Whitehound]
If your 100m or marathon turns into PvE, you should probably talk to the organisers and ask them to post shooters to keep the bears and tigers off the track…


OMG that would be awesome, it would make marathons actually interesting to watch. The Kenyans would still win, but what can you do? Twisted
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#609 - 2015-08-31 16:22:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Whitehound wrote:
While in real life your body always fights against gravity
…gravity isn't competing in the race either. Gravity is just part of the UI.

Quote:
You and another player might just be engaged in a race of flower picking and the one with the most flowers wins.
Yes, that would be your bog-standard PvP over resources.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#610 - 2015-08-31 16:25:34 UTC
Whitehound wrote:

While in real life your body always fights against gravity


This thread is now about fat people.
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#611 - 2015-08-31 16:25:58 UTC
Some of you have a very nasty attitude man. People have placed cans in systems I've been in calling me racist names, My family has been insulted. I've been told to go have sex with my sister. I've been camped for 3 years of my game and I'm still here because I have a strong mind.

I remember 1 dude telling me someone had even insulted his dead brother. This thread will get closed or my posts could be deleted because I am not afraid to tell you about the game as I have experienced it.

Talking to people in the way I mentioned above will have a serious effect on some people and the game in general, people will leave and never come back. MAN UP!! and deal with it and accept that some of our players actions have contributed to players leaving.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie

Malt Zedong
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#612 - 2015-08-31 16:26:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Malt Zedong
There is no PVP ... EVE is dying™.

Now I see from where CODE people take that bull about "When you win you lose, when you lose you lose, CODE always wins.".

There are a whole lot of people who goes by that reasoning.

And that is true:

I saw a lot of people leaving EVE and a lot of people not even trying EVE for that precise reason.

I dont care about that and I think CCP should either, but lie about that is below the belt.

Recently I've watched some live transmissions from Markee Dragon, and in the chat box a lot of people comment on the fact that if people in EVE werent so creepy and scary, they would try the game.

I am happy they dont, and I like the way EVE shape its community. But again, there is no use to lie about that.

WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#613 - 2015-08-31 16:26:30 UTC
After a housing market analogy derail, this thread will be foreclosed before I get home to reply using a keyboard.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#614 - 2015-08-31 16:26:32 UTC
Hahaha, this is ridiculous.

The hound is soo far gone I don't think "wrong" even applys anymore.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#615 - 2015-08-31 16:26:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Aaron wrote:
I remember a thread where someone posted about another player calling him a child molester he was upset by being called this and nobody had any sympathy whatsoever.
Do you know why people had no sympathy? The player in question has repeatedly tried to intimidate people in various fashions over the years, he's a well known troll, terrible shitposter and a massive manchild. He also failed to provide any proof whatsoever of the accusations he was making.

Quote:
He was told to stop playing by lots of people, so he took their advice and did that. 1000s of people have had similar problems and guess what? Most of them have left.
Guess what, despite his promise to never come back and his tear filled rants on external gaming sites, he still plays. He's quit at least twice in a massive self induced drama fest that I know of, and he's still a shitposting troll of a manchild.

Quote:
Most of you should stop contradicting yourselves and just accept that the community is partly responsible for numbers dropping, It is silly to treat 1000s of people like **** and then cry on the forum when they've left. Stop blaming CCP for everything and look in the mirror.
I can think of at least 1 significant factor in dropping PCU numbers, which is the work of CCP.

At least 50% of the people you claim that we treat like crap came into Eve believing it would be WoW, or the equivalent, in space; they expected separate PvE worlds where they are not subject to PvP. They left when they found this to be a false impression.


Quote:
Some of you have a very nasty attitude man. People have placed cans in systems I've been in calling me racist names, My family has been insulted. I've been told to go have sex with my sister. I've been camped for 3 years of my game and I'm still here because I have a strong mind.

I remember 1 dude telling me someone had even insulted his dead brother. This thread will get closed or my posts could be deleted because I am not afraid to tell you about the game as I have experienced it.

Talking to people in the way I mentioned above will have a serious effect on some people and the game in general, people will leave and never come back. MAN UP!! and deal with it and accept that some of our players actions have contributed to players leaving.
Have you ever considered that you may be at least partially responsible for the experiences you've had?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Salvos Rhoska
#616 - 2015-08-31 16:26:58 UTC
Aaron wrote:
Most of you should stop contradicting yourselves and just accept that the community is partly responsible for numbers dropping, It is silly to treat 1000s of people like **** and then cry on the forum when they've left. Stop blaming CCP for everything and look in the mirror.


As I said.

Nobody is whining about new (or old) players leaving the game due to being faced with the harsh environment of EVE.

This has always been the case, and will always be the case.
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#617 - 2015-08-31 16:29:50 UTC
After slogging through several pages of this thread, one theme has emerged: the definition of PVP vs PVE. This is in no way helpful to the topic. And as usual in EvE, there are wildly polarized opinions with intractable positions that are perfectly justifiable in the minds of their owners, with no room for open mindedness or compromise. I'm sure I will be flamed merely for not accepting a highly polarized opinion.

Me and two other corp mates came back to EvE after a long hiatus only to find radically reduced population numbers. So much so that our cyno alts are almost never threatened, as a gauge. We met CODE after a few days and once we knew of their existence, studied up and found their manifesto and their "take it up the ass and state you like it or make it onto our **** list" practice. Everything they do is within the rules, and I dare say, is likely supported by CCP. We operate in CODE territory with impunity basically because I don't think they understand the concept of showing up with enough alpha to beat the Concord timer. Yes, we are on their **** list and they follow us all over the map, oh, except into low/null sec. They are not a threat.

Now, I am in a gaming group and we play a broad array of games, from D&D to board games, to Diablo III to EvE. Without exception, the non-EvE players think CODE's manifesto is Internet bullying and should be prosecuted as such. The EvE players among us will not disagree. So I need to ask, if my extended group of highly experienced gamers and hardcore PvPers thinks CODE qualifies for Internet bullying, then I would think many other gamers do too, especially those new to EvE who have met up with CODE the hard way. Who can possibly think that this kind of perception among non-EvE-centric gamers would lead to expanding populations?

I am not blaming CODE totally, but this kind of thing certainly contributes to low population. Many will not even consider EvE just hearing about this "fair" bullying and the EvE created term "Bully Corps". Great! Bullying by design. Others rage quit upon experiencing it. And I read many in this thread saying "good riddance" and "we are better off without them". Okay, cool. Then enjoy the low population, and stop wondering why.

Now add in the typical down time faux pas that CCP is famous for and the negative perception is sealed.

One way or the other, arguing over the definition of PVP vs PVE will not solve anything and is a waste of time and intellectual energy.

Malt Zedong
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#618 - 2015-08-31 16:32:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Malt Zedong
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Most of you should stop contradicting yourselves and just accept that the community is partly responsible for numbers dropping, It is silly to treat 1000s of people like **** and then cry on the forum when they've left. Stop blaming CCP for everything and look in the mirror.


As I said.

Nobody is whining about new (or old) players leaving the game due to being faced with the harsh environment of EVE.

This has always been the case, and will always be the case.


We players dont really care how many or how long players stay in EVE.
We players dont really care in having a big family community in EVE.
We players dont really profit from the number of people in EVE.

IF CCP that is the one who does is not giving a flying crap, why should we ?

Quote:
CODE bla bla bla


I just came to know CODE existed when I head of them in an related list of videos in YouTube some weeks ago.

Before that, I used to mine, freight, trade, contract and had not one single time heard of them. And I was a constant crosser of Uedama.

WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#619 - 2015-08-31 16:34:22 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Do you know why people had no sympathy? The player in question has repeatedly tried to intimidate people in various fashions over the years, he's also a well known troll, terrible shitposter and a massive manchild. He also failed to provide any proof whatsoever of the accusations he was making.

To be fair, he did provide proof that he was breaking the same rules he accused the other guy of breaking and was initially angry about how he had been slapped on the wrist for doing so.

So you forgot to add “ridiculously self-important hypocrite” to the list. Blink
Yockerbow
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#620 - 2015-08-31 16:34:26 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
I would agree with this sentiment except for the fact that for years eve increased its subs and online user numbers while still being a harsh place. In fact, that was eve's niche and how it was marketed. As soon as the current crop of devs decided to say "f-it! we are going after the causal player," things started to fall apart. The casual player is fickle and they have lots of choices for games with solid pve. In fact most games out there have better pve then eve. CCP has started driving away its core players, but is still unable to bring in and keep causal players in sufficient numbers to offset the decline. While it may be counter intuitive - CCPs best chance to increase subs again is to embrace its past, to go back to being a hardcore niche game.


Couldn't have said it better myself. Most of the people I've known who came to EVE and stayed came for exactly that niche; those just checking out another kid-gloves MMO usually don't stick around long, and likely won't stick around very long regardless of how the game is changed.