Assembly Hall

The absence of new talking points was the problem. There has been continuous feedback ever since Phoebe (posts, blogs, reddit, podcasts) so why they thought a specific feedback session now would yield any new fruit is beyond me. The mere act of calling for feedback at this late stage is aggravating because it makes people feel they have been ignored up to now.

They should have made a few announcements which gave an indication of what they are thinking of doing beforehand, preferably at a concept level rather than specific figures which people could get bogged down in. If they truly wanted feedback they should have done homework - there was plenty of it around.

The level of moderation was not the problem.

It really is an issue of the wrong people asking the questions. If CCP wants feedback they should be asking us questions.

You have to realize that holding a session to get feedback for a mechanic change that has literally stopped people from logging into certain accounts, is going to be contentious. The attitude going in from CCP needed to be immensely more humble and they needed to have far less hubris. I think part of the defensive attitude comes directly from Dev's feeling like they are constantly on the defensive.

It's pretty terrible to have an event where supposedly the devs are looking for feedback where they outright reject questions large parts of the community have had to ponder, because they are so out of touch they think the question is unreasonable. If this wasn't presented as a question and instead simply as an experience and CCP actually asked follow up questions that could be better.

But it's hard to say because as we heard with the BL dread self destruction example, CCP can also have a tendency to just right things off as "those crazy kids"

I actually just thought of a better way to illustrate some of the issues with yesterdays discussion.

One of the big major face palm moments I remember for the player base was the assertion by the Dev's that Phoebe had little effect on the possibilities of something like B-R happening again. CCP Fozzie's thesis, was that B-R happened because two large super capital groups were deployed near each other. He then cited the NC./Darkness vs Imperium conflict in Fountain/Delve earlier this year as an example that two large super groups can still come together and that we were basically a spark away from another B-R.

The problem is he is missing the aspect of the player experience surrounding that Fountain/Delve deployment. The move ops to and back from that region have shaped players views far more than any fighting that did or didn't happen. Moving down was painful and took more than a week. Moving back was just as bad and those people who missed the first move op and wound up in the second op on our side, were dropped by BL. Anyone who missed both was now faced with the solo move prospect.

Now argue about the specifics of that all you want. But the very act of many of us going through that move put in serious questions as to whether we would ever want to do that again. The very thing that Fozzie is citing as an example, is actually a better example for the players involved as to why Phoebe hurts the possibilities of a B-R style fight.

Now devs can't see the individual experience of players. But stepping back and listening to player feedback might help them see a different side of a scenario that they have already formed an opinion on.

"There is only one boss. The customer. And he can fire everybody in the company from the chairman on down, simply by spending his money somewhere else."
-Sam Walton

I was extremely impressed by how little CCP seemed to appreciated the concerns of the player base yesterday. On top of the demeaning remarks made towards the CSM I was also surprised by the arrogance presented by a few members of CCP. I get it though, CCP had the tone of feeling ambushed so instead of providing logical defusing comments they had emotional reactions.

Hopefully CCP will walk away from this experience motivated knowing that the EVE player base still cares about the game and wants change to happen for the better. If we can take anything from this experience it should be that the PLAYERS were PREPARED, CCP was NOT.

*An observation: Eve has a very high "average age" and there are quite a few experienced professional amongst the ranks. When CCP tries to talk down to their player base they should expect what we are seeing now. This is a space sim full of IT nerds, the players aren't stupid.

Everyone hears things differently. I don't expect you to think the same way I do either. What I posted was my opinion to CCP therefore validating my opinion to you is useless.

This thread isn't about me so I'm trying to keep you all on topic.

To the Discussion

CCP Larrikin started his thread there and the statistics are linked.

I really think that these two simple changes would make a huge improvement not only for general quality of life in null-sec, but to encourage a bit more content. Imagine this:

• All ships that currently have a 2.5ly base range are bumped up to 3-4ly (6-8ly max). Perhaps boost Blops to 5ly too.
• Being in your alliance's capital system (or better yet, constellation containing the capital) causes some large benefit to jump fatigue (but not jump cooldown). Either it decays much faster, vanishes completely after a fixed time, whatever.

Now any alliance will have the ability to project force quite quickly around their core systems, but still cannot venture too far across the map. Other alliances who currently base in NPC null-sec that want to invade, or simply just mess with nearby groups, will have a major incentive to carve out a little nearby system for themselves to gain these benefits also. This in turn is a nice little recipe for conflict.




I'm reading that as "we won't make further changes to this before Phoebe releases". Greyscale and other devs were quite clear that they wanted to make other adjustments to long distance travel in future, especially reducing the range of jump freighters once other changes had been made to allow for easier logistics.

Holy **** why have you not done something to jump fatigue yet.

It's September already...