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I'd prefer a system which only accumulates fatigue once you make a regional jump (be it with your jump drive or gate after using your jumpdrive). The rate on how the fatigue/reactivation timer should grow is not something that I could define right on the spot. But the idea is that you can get into the neighbouring regions without much delay while homeregion + 1 + x will take longer up to a certain degree where just gate travel would be faster again.


If we take the example first used by CCP Greyscale then we have little bobby tables sitting in UJY-HE in Deklein and he wants to go to Atioth UJY-HE in Deklein and he wants to go to Atioth

In this case within the same region, e.g. first 6 jumps he will not accumulate a jump reactivation timer based on distance traveled but just a standard jump reactivation timer of let's say 2 minutes.

However once he jumps into Tribute (by jumpdrive or gate) he will get a (regional) jumpreactivation timer of a formula which includes the amount of lightyears traveled and the amount of used regions (2 so far).

possible formula Jumpdistance (JD) * #used regions. In this case you would get 27ly * 2 which would result in a 54min regional jump reactivation timer (travel within the new regions are still possible though)


So little bobby tables has to wait for 54 before being able to jump into the next region (vale of the silent) but in the mean time he got through the next 2 system accumulating additional 9.5 ly JD

Once he jumps into vale of the silent he's at ~36 ly JD which now gets multiplied with 3 (number of used regions) resulting in a regional jump reactivation timer of 108 minutes


Same thing is the case now if he wants to get into geminate. After another 10 ly JD he's at 48 ly JD which will generate him 192 min of regional jump reactivation timer.


so after a total of roughly 3 h travel he will reach his destination.


With the numbers I used this time we still get too much mobility but the formula could be changed so that the number of regions will get multiplied by an exponential function (e.g. fibonacci sequence) in order to put a maximum travel distance that can be covered in a certain amount of time


This is just a quick outline of what was in my mind after today's roundtable and I wanted a rough idea of it posted asap. So I know that the current outline is far from perfect. But in case the general idea of it gets good feedback I could describe in more detail on how the jumpfatigue system would need to be changed in my opinion.

Another pro-PL change brought to you by Larrikin and Manny!

Just as being able to get a fleet on top of capitals (due to their high sig radii making combat probing very fast) "needed" to be nerfed, now they "need" to undo all the good Phoebe did in order to promote their capital/supercap play style.

At least it appears that they won't **** the rest of the EVE playerbase when they remove something good this time.

I think the big thing that isn't being looked at, is factoring Jump Fatigue into the balance of individual ship classes.

Certain ships have no problem travelling by gates, obviously interceptors. But bigger subcaps are obviously less agile when it comes to taking gates and warping system by system. Why not give them an advantage in a fatigue reduction?

Of course subcap fleets are rarely all one class of ship, so that would obviously have to be looked at, but certainly something like Attack BC's have been used as single type fleets. I would think a bonus to jump fatigue could also fit into their hit and run role, except in this case mobility would be dependant on something else for bridging.

The key of course is figuring out that 2-3 jump curve that allows you to be tactical without getting into allow long distance travel to go crazy again.

The other thing that has been interesting with the evolution of capitals taking gates is how capitals are becoming integrated into subcap fleets. Triage is a big thing that stands out here. The problem of course that limits balance when talking about triage is the Ship Maintenance Bay. It's a tad clumsy, but would you consider giving triage modules a penalty to the SMB and drone bandwidth and a fatigue reduction while also increasing the module size so it could not be refit from the fleet hangar? The idea being that triage carriers become truly logistics only and in that role could gain the ability to jump more frequently. Part of this would work in concert with the idea about larger subcaps being more jump mobile. Also I think a lot of people would argue that the triage module itself is fairly balanced.

I'd like to see a flat rate for jump fatigue, none of this exponential bullshit.

Ranges could be slightly larger but for the most part i think its okay.

I'd like to learn more about this "hyper-drive". Is it like a minimum distance jump drive than has a long cooldown?

I very much like the idea of jump fatigue drugs. I would prefer to give them a slightly higher side effect chance, but that could be a very interesting industry, especially if the sites that have the materials for production are in 0.0 or 0.1 lowsec systems.

Altering jump ranges

The jump ranges for Combat Caps seems ok. The jump ranges for Jump Freighters seems ok. I think shortening the ranges further for either would be detrimental. I would be inclined to extend the range of combat caps, but that stems from wanting to move it with fewer jumps from point A to point B.

Altering jump fatigue curves

I really do not have an opinion on this apart from it seems to be quite effective at limiting speedy movement.

Moving jump fatigue from character based to ship based

Very bad idea. Why even have jump fatigue if you are going to do this? Retain it as character based.

Alternative FTL systems (Hyperdrive anyone?)

Hmmm.... Hyperspace. I like the idea. But it should take some time for the travel to take place (I suppose ship spinning in hyperspace is a bad idea) but does not require stopping in intermediary systems. Such a system of travel could use the sun in a system as a beacon. A new Citadel Structure could include the ability to detect Hyperspace travel and possibly interdict it. Hyperspace engines could be a Low or Mid slot add on, require a detectable "spool" time, and to add flavor the various modules and metas extend the range of the jumps. Small ships have a more limited range by default than larger ships... Could be used to reach Jove Space?

Sovereignty effects on Jump Fatigue (e.g. jumping out of/back into capitals reducing jump fatigue)

No. While it is attractive, no. But if you did add it... I suppose it would certainly encourage taking Sov in strategic locations to take the benefit of the Fatigue reduction. It might encourage more sov warfare or it might reignite the "blue donut".

Balance of Jump projection v's Gate projection v's Wormhole projection

Jump Projection is ad hoc, controllable by those jumping and limited by range and fatigue (and the life span of the cyno ship). Gate to gate is predictable as you know where the gate leads from and to but without a scout on the other side you won't know what is there until you jump. Wormholes are unpredictable. You can try to force spawn them till you get to or close to the desired target, but in the end, they are not something any party controls apart from collapsing. Each is useful for what it is and each has their benefits and drawbacks.

Jump Fatigue effecting combat effectiveness instead of limiting movement

Will only encourage bigger and bigger blobbing to compensate for the loss in effectiveness. Keeping it as it is is better.

Move-Mode for Capitals for move ops (e.g. Transforming into move mode (24 hour process) reduces combat capacity to near 0)

Give it fatigue like a Jump Freighter but the same range restriction it currently has.

Active methods of reducing jump fatigue (Modules, Skills, Drugs)

No modules, Drugs might work....

What does local-content mean to you?

Anything within 3 jumps.

Do not trouble yourself over this -- the truth transcends the limitations of one's in-game affiliation. I understand completely.

How about this:
The system you start with at 0 fatigue counts as starting point A. Your fatigue cannot increase above the value that you would have gotten with a series of max distance jumps (without breaks), starting at A (maybe plus 20% or something like that). Otherwise everything is calculated normally. Since this is only a maximum value, it is virtually impossible that this change would lead to more fatigue at any point compared to now.

This will affect long distance projection only very slightly or not at all. If you travel long distances in a short time, you are below that maximum anyway. Since the maximum assumes jumps without break (which are not possible since you have reactivation) this will lead to a higher value than you would get after waiting for each timer. The +20% account for the assumed route optimization due to the assumed max range jumps (im just guessing with the +20%, maybe a different value is better).

But it would allow a pilot to operate round his starting point, without accumulating much fatigue. Jumping to a fight, jumping back home, and jumping right back into a fight, would not increase the fatigue much above the level of the first jump - the increase will never be more than 20% compared to the frist jump, you could do this all day long.

This keeps the original purpose of fatigue - force projection over long distances - intact, while mostly removing the side effect of hindering pilots to jump to fights in their home system.

Everything is fine.
The only thing I would change would be to allow caps to move through hi-sec gates to ease the pain of redeployment a little bit. Of course, while in hi-sec, players should be prevented to use any offensive, logistic or support modules and also launching drones, fighters or fighter bombers.

The power projection changes were some of the best changes made in the last couple of years. It has added a lot more strategy to the game as a small entity now has a chance to use its own capitals without being stomped from half way across the universe.

If you are looking into this again then I'd suggest looking at reducing black ops and jump freighters in line with the other capital ships in terms of their jump range. Perhaps jump freighters should be reduced to around 8 LY, and black ops 5 LY

As for the jump fatigue, I've always thought it is a bit excessive that you can build unlimited amounts of fatigue, so that should probably be capped to a month worth of fatigue maximum.

As Malcanis posted above a lot of hard work was put into getting through these changes. I remember the resistance it was met with and I was happy to see Greyscale push them through in the end despite having to roll back the original plans for JFs.

My advice would actually be to not take too much notice of feedback you get here, but instead keep looking at the metrics and implement what you feel is best for the game as a whole.