Assembly Hall

Fatigue is a necessary mechanic in my opinion, however its nowhere perfect right now.

Obviously giving all ships the same fatigue amount is somewhat off, and punishes a lot of specially younger people who do not understand the mechanic. However, i would not remove Fatigue completely from Subcaps, as otherwise it would be abused again. For an organized entity it would be pretty easy to build up a "Titan Highway" through Lowsec / NPC Nullsec to project Subcaps fleets virtually everywhere.

So i would suggest to somehow tie the Fatigue generated to the Mass of the ship, much like Wormholes.


In addition to that, Jump Bridges should generate a LOT LESS Fatigue. The routes of JBs are fixed and they are basicly Stargates with an Access Control List. Unless CCP wants the player-constructed stargates that soon[tm] will be released to generate Jump Fatigue aswell, JBs should have no Fatigue either.

The stakes to install JBs in the first place are already quite high.

Are there any major technical hurdles to implementing the "tether" system? Distance from starting point so that you can move around the same region much better but harder to go far?

As a point, the changes in geography have very little to do with power projection, and far more to do with the Aegis Sov system: you have to live in your space in order to hold it. Rental empires full of renters who won't fleet up to defend the space can't be defended by landlord alliances - the Entosis Links have to be in the rental alliance. This doesn't change even with the ability to project forces across the map in minutes. If you don't have the population density to hold a region, you won't hold it.

Nor are the power projection changes the cause of the 'break up' of the giant coalitions. The CFC/Imperium didn't break up, and N3 is currently in the process of re-forming as PL gets NCdot settled back into Delve, next door to Darkness' Guardians of the Galaxy Coalition. I expect once NCdot is firmly in place, they'll be joining the Guardians, who they've helped in multiple battles already.

Now, to the question:

One of the explicitly stated intentions of the Phoebe jump fatigue changes was the limitation of power projection across the map, while retaining the use of capital ships in a localized, defensive role. The 5LY distance certainly helps with that, however, the fatigue often winds up having an excessively chilling effect - especially given the need for relatively rapid response for Entosis defense. Capitals are already an extremely poor choice for carrying the link itself (a T2 link will lock a capital in place for 20m, minimum - 1 10m warp-up cycle, and then the 'active' cycle, which will have to run to completion regardless of whether or not the structure requires only 30 seconds of entosis work to fully restore). This has an overall effect of making these ships largely useless for defense against the harassing tactics using small, light, fast interceptors that were warned about - and which have emerged en masse, despite widespread claims by the community that these tactics would be impossible, and efforts by the devs to ensure so-called 'trollceptors' would not dominate the entosis meta. Put simply, the capital ships cannot provide the ability that would seem their primary advantage - the ability to leapfrog across multiple systems in order to defend nodes while subcapital fleets pursue intruders more directly. They can jump once. And then wait an hour before attempting to get ahead of the interceptor(s) a second time. Let's face it, an hour later, that interceptor (or group) is probably long gone.

With this in mind, is there a possibility for tying Jump Fatigue to the ADMs for the system you are jumping out of, possibly via IHUB upgrade? Considering that capital systems are also frequently market hub systems, this would also have the effect of improving the ability of nullsec entities to support and maintain local markets and local manufacturing - another stated goal of the Phoebe changes, as the intent behind the inclusion of Jump Freighters in the fatigue was to make deliveries to and from Highsec less desirable than local production, and so stimulate local manufacturing.

well at the time fozzie&cosov was announced i remember ccp saying that jump fatigue didn't go with the sov changes,is this ccp attempt to justify removing fatigue or are they just collecting tears?

i hope this dosent get lost in the mess that this thread is bound to become

ok ill start this by saying in all i like the jump changes if it was a choice of having them in the game and having not in the game i would keep them they addressed a major issue of the game and solved it my question is regarding the collateral damage caused in the process

by this i mean black ops and JB networks they have lost there effectivness and usefullness and ause barrier to Participation ie i cant go with the fleet through this jb because i have a timer they dont so i get left behind and go back to the station and spin



i can not think of a solution that would solve the issues entirly without bringing back the old issues but here is my 2 cents and my question

is it possible to change the system so that the amount of fatige reciveed is in relation to the mass of the ship jumped and the distance jumped rather than just a base multiplier times distance

this would help negate the pain of traveling around in own space to join up with people by useing small fragile ships but more importently further incuraging black ops use but keeping the fix for capitals

Q: Will we see the other industrial ships get the 90% reduction bonus e.g mining barges exhumers

Q: Will we see the other, other industrial ships get the 90% reduction bonus e.g navatis, mining frigates

Q: Will we see shuttles and or newb ships get a 90-99% reduction in jump fatigue

Q: could we see a -50% fatigue for logi ships

Q: What are the chances of having jump fatigue removed from alliance jb networks all together. or having it tied into sov levels

Q: Are we likely to see a reduction in capital jump fuel (isatopes) required per jump now that we have jump fatigue

Q: Will the monthly ihub upgrade bill and cost in materials to build said upgrades for jb, beacons and cyno jammers be reduced due to the agis changes e.g jump fatigue

Q: Will we see drones being reinstated for supers and dreads now that their movement is more risky. and there are less structures to grind. or will they be given more high slots or turret hard points

Q: Will we see high slots and hard points added to freighters and jump freighters due to the new risks they must face being encouraged to go gate to gate

Q: With jump fatigue reducing the amount of surprise hot drop ganks are we likely to see a deployable mobile local scrambler structure. not scoop-able half a days life span, scan probable, that hides local count. like how local works in a worm hole

I don't see that as being too bad. The regions that are huge tend to have one really exploitable link inside anyway.

Has CCP considered the dual role of carriers in logistics vs combat roles? There is no other way to transport assembled ships.

Would they consider a module (rig? implant perhaps?) That allows for a longer single jump? Perhaps some modification to jf that allows assembled ships?

Perhaps logistics and combat should be further separated. Not sure of any of the above solutions, just food for thought.

That's ok. We can blame ISBoxer sub losses on Phoebe anyways to help convince them to reverse this awful change. I want my power back.

Forgive me if this has been stated elsewhere the threadnaught is too long!

I would like to say that as a low sec resident in the Amarr/Minmatar warzone for the past 18 months that that area of space has become much healthier for content since jump fatigue came into effect. We used to have a major capital supremacy group stage within the warzone who could and would project those capitals across the length and breadth of New Eden with ease. When they were bored they would drop capitals on anything in the warzone larger than a destroyer fleet if they could.

Jump fatigue made them have to choose where to base much more carefully and the health of the region has blossomed since they had to relocate. Where once there was one 1 invincible superpower there are now several groups ranging from small to large that have started to fill the void creating a more dynamic and varied environment. Capital ships are still used however mostly by local powers who have an investment in the politics of the region rather than 'oh look a Hel is undocked' and 20 Nyxs are teleported from the other side of the map in a matter of minutes.

If the effects of jump fatigue are watered down I worry that these regional players will be more likely to get squashed by returning super powers looking to regain peripheral holdings if their main fleets can afford to reach the area again from wherever they are currently deployed.

My opinion only, not looking to start an argument. Here at least.