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CCP/CSM Round Table: Jump Fatigue

First post
Author
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate
#81 - 2015-08-06 19:05:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirk MacGirk
Thirdsin wrote:
Generally these outreach efforts are a follow up. They are follow up to conversations and conclusions already reached by the internal audience (CCP/CSMs) and now validation of findings and discovery of areas of community push-back is done with the 'round table'.

So, if we could cut to the chase - What changes have already been tentatively announced by CCP or suggested by the CSMs?

Obviously wing and a prayer for an actual answer here since it seems every time a CSM talks about changes they start with "I'm under NDA, but my personal feeling is...".


Grabbing popcorn.


Agreed. Discussion and ideas have already taken place. Give the player base the ability to react to these while adding any additional questions or concerns they may have.

edit - I'd also toss in that discussing the phoebe changes in isolation, without regard for what may or may not be coming with changes to capital and supercapitals, makes it difficult to really evaluate whether or not range and fatigue is where it should be. There is a lot more to the issue than just revisiting fatigue or range.
Rob Kaichin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2015-08-06 19:06:09 UTC
lord xavier wrote:
Scott Ormands wrote:
Haidere wrote:
Has CCP given any consideration to removing jump fatigue and merely having ~5 min reactivation timer?


Most capitals are already going to be on grid for 5 minutes anyways (siege or triage cycle) but something like 10 minutes would be a more balanced idea

The issue has never been jumping into fight with a fatigue timer. [...}




Maybe there is more than one issue here, with more than one solution?

Now, another question from me for the thread, and perhaps for the soundboard also.


I think my biggest issue here is not knowing what CCP intends for and from Jump Fatigue Mechanics .

I'd like a response to "What does CCP believe is the 'point' of Jump fatigue mechanics?".

"What are they meant to achieve, beyond 'moving from A to B' taking more time?"

A firmly stated concept by CCP of their aims is good for all of us, because CSM and CCP (and perhaps the players!) can come up with ideas. Existing in this no-man's land of confusion does none of us any favours.



Nour Samy
Disorderly Vagrants
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#83 - 2015-08-06 19:07:02 UTC
Hello, so here's a thought, Why not keep fatigue in place, but return the range back to 10 light years instead of 5 ?
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
Villore Accords
#84 - 2015-08-06 19:12:21 UTC
I personally am a huge fan of the impacts Jump Range decrease and Jump Fatigue are having in Lowsec. I would like to see it stay as it is until caps and supers have been rebalanced (if they are going to be).
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate
#85 - 2015-08-06 19:18:28 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
Folks, I am one of the people helping to collect the questions. So you know? I IGNORE people who cannot follow basic instructions. I am collecting questions. If you write some commands of what you want done I will pass over you and go on to the next person. This is NOT your oppostunity to give orders it is an q and a session.

Now I know you lot are intelligent enough to write specific ideas in the form of questions and I welcome that. Flat out CCP do Dis. Just won't make the cut.

. . .

any questions?

m


Yeah, why are the players asking the questions? Don't you all want to know what the players think hence you're the ones with questions?

Here's a question: What are the changes coming to capitals and supercapitals so I can better frame my questions regarding how far and what fatigue should be incurred when they are jumped.?
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#86 - 2015-08-06 19:21:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Saisin
Could you consider adding a branch of new (ship specific) skills that could somewhat curtails the effect of Jump Fatigue when trained?

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project

Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#87 - 2015-08-06 19:29:37 UTC
Black Ops could use some love. The jump fatigue reduction is amazing until you realize that your range is also quite big - so you wind up with roughly the same end result.

Are there any plans to address this particular issue?

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph

Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2015-08-06 19:39:17 UTC
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
Folks, I am one of the people helping to collect the questions. So you know? I IGNORE people who cannot follow basic instructions. I am collecting questions. If you write some commands of what you want done I will pass over you and go on to the next person. This is NOT your oppostunity to give orders it is an q and a session.

Now I know you lot are intelligent enough to write specific ideas in the form of questions and I welcome that. Flat out CCP do Dis. Just won't make the cut.

. . .

any questions?

m


Yeah, why are the players asking the questions? Don't you all want to know what the players think hence you're the ones with questions?

Here's a question: What are the changes coming to capitals and supercapitals so I can better frame my questions regarding how far and what fatigue should be incurred when they are jumped.?


This is a townhall type thing, Dirk. Like a podcast it is better to have a dialogue consisting of a chance to ask questions rather than giving folks a rant stage. That is why the questions are being collected and sorted and pre-sifted. Getting a Dev to take time to answer some of the questions coming up is a big thing (imho) and I do not want to a) waste it or (b) turn it into a sidetracked discussion. Thus the moderation.

I actually DO like to know what the players think and they are welcome to send me opinions/requests anytime. But this is different.

And tell me that you cannot think of questions whose very content do not let the person being asked know exactly what you think.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#89 - 2015-08-06 19:47:59 UTC
What are CCP's plans to offset the emptiness of null that has been exacerbated by shorter jump ranges making null 'bigger' and more empty?

Follow up....are CCP now ready to take meaningful actions to drive more people into the area of the game proven to inspire new-player acquisition, or are they content to just tweak at the edges of jump (and SOV) mechanics, use only null carrots (and no hisec sticks), and ultimately leave it to player groups like Brave Newbies to be their overall player growth strategy?

F
Skymea
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2015-08-06 19:49:26 UTC
Can we have some way to alleviate the fatigue we rack on?

Delusions of Adequacy - Get Off My Lawn

Fairbanks Morse
Stimulated Emission
#91 - 2015-08-06 19:59:24 UTC
Why have you not iterated at all or taken any kind of feedback on Phoebe in the year that has passed?

Allow me to quote the devblog:

Quote:
We are expecting to make follow-up adjustments in Rhea, in December.


hahahahaahahahah

Quote:
The medium-term shake-out of these changes will be very impactful on sovereignty-system changes we are anticipating making next year, so we are expecting to revisit all this again as the work on those changes progresses.


Yeah, right.

You said you were going to iterate and consider feedback, yet you have clearly not done any such thing. Why?
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#92 - 2015-08-06 20:04:38 UTC
Fairbanks Morse wrote:
Why have you not iterated at all or taken any kind of feedback on Phoebe in the year that has passed?

Allow me to quote the devblog:

Quote:
We are expecting to make follow-up adjustments in Rhea, in December.


hahahahaahahahah

Quote:
The medium-term shake-out of these changes will be very impactful on sovereignty-system changes we are anticipating making next year, so we are expecting to revisit all this again as the work on those changes progresses.


Yeah, right.

You said you were going to iterate and consider feedback, yet you have clearly not done any such thing. Why?



side track - MOST AWESOME name ever
Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#93 - 2015-08-06 20:04:42 UTC
Just one question - what are your thoughts on re-introducing suitcase carriers in some shape and/or form?
Maybe by introducing a t2 variant of jump capable bowhead in order to make moving smaller ships easier/more viable for people or maybe giving rorqual such a role by allowing its sma to take any kind of ships?
Rob Kaichin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2015-08-06 20:05:21 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
What are CCP's plans to offset the emptiness of null that has been exacerbated by shorter jump ranges making null 'bigger' and more empty?

Follow up....are CCP now ready to take meaningful actions to drive more people into the area of the game proven to inspire new-player acquisition, or are they content to just tweak at the edges of jump (and SOV) mechanics, use only null carrots (and no hisec sticks), and ultimately leave it to player groups like Brave Newbies to be their overall player growth strategy?

F


Ah, you can almost smell the agenda... Oh wait, you can.

Still, the emptiness of null is a big problem, and my (since we're now onto the unrelated questions!) questions is this:

"With the jump fatigue mechanic changes, when does CCP plan to remove any region without a gate to high-sec or low-sec ?"

This would provide the competition and pressure for resources that is sure to create good fights.

(Feel free to edit the above out if you want, oh wise and powerful ISDs)

My real question: Can CCP create different types of fatigue to inhibit/encourage certain behaviours?

If so, can CCP create relations between these types, so 'gaming' mechanics is impossible?


We don't want to create a 'blops' fatigue reduction only, because people will just abuse it as a semi-settled jump bridge network from station to station.
Lt Shard
Team Pizza
Good at this Game
#95 - 2015-08-06 20:10:25 UTC
Although the csm may not share the same thoughts, could you take a look at JFs and consider making logistics more of an investment instead of a risk free teleporting box that you can jump almost without penalty?

Maybe apply more fatigue to it and increase the number of null to low or null to high wormholes to offset it and apply more risk and therefor content generation.
Genvieve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#96 - 2015-08-06 20:25:09 UTC
1 - Please consider re-vamping the ranges associated with Phoebe
2 - Fatigue is suppose to reduce power projection, which it has, but moving caps at all is now overly tedious.

My suggestions would be

1 - tie the fatigue to the ship instead of the pilot.
2 - boost jump ranges for super capitals to 10ly, regular caps to 7-8ly
3 - re-think what fatigue causes, Jump re-activation fine max it at 8 hours not 30days plus.
twit brent
Never Not AFK
#97 - 2015-08-06 20:26:59 UTC
Obil Que wrote:
twit brent wrote:
The game Is more balanced now, but the price of that balance is just ridiculous. The pace of this game was slow enough before the changes but now i find myself playing other games while waiting for timers to count down.


My question:

CCP...can you come up with a way to increase the imagination of players so they can discover ways to play the game other than sitting in capital ships waiting for a timer?

As a suggestion for an answer I would propose you introduce the following into the game:

every other kind of ship

Thanks.


Maybe you can use your imagination and figure out that different people like different aspects of the game. Maybe if you used your imagination you could try and contribute instead of shitposting.
Darirol
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#98 - 2015-08-06 20:37:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Darirol
Jumpfeighter: it seems to me that the current jumpfreighter fatique mechanic is not going to stay as it is. is there already something planed to reduce either the jump range and or increase the fatique per jump or a timeline when ccp looks at jumpfreighter the next time?
Obil Que
Star Explorers
Solis Tenebris
#99 - 2015-08-06 20:56:25 UTC
twit brent wrote:
Obil Que wrote:
twit brent wrote:
The game Is more balanced now, but the price of that balance is just ridiculous. The pace of this game was slow enough before the changes but now i find myself playing other games while waiting for timers to count down.


My question:

CCP...can you come up with a way to increase the imagination of players so they can discover ways to play the game other than sitting in capital ships waiting for a timer?

As a suggestion for an answer I would propose you introduce the following into the game:

every other kind of ship

Thanks.


Maybe you can use your imagination and figure out that different people like different aspects of the game. Maybe if you used your imagination you could try and contribute instead of shitposting.


If you actually enjoyed different aspects of the game you wouldn't spend your time sitting in a ship, waiting out a timer, complaining about your single-minded gameplay being hampered, and then not even playing the game as a result. That attitude is the exact cancer to EVE that these changes were designed to destroy. Working as intended.
Belinda HwaFang
Iris Kinetics - Aquisitions
#100 - 2015-08-06 20:57:15 UTC
Q: When Phoebe changes were originally unveiled, all ships were being reduced to 5LY (except Black Ops) range. After the epic threadnaught from JF pilots I believe CCP Fozzie said that he would temporarily be giving JF's 10LY while they sort other aspects of the new EVE, e.g. things like material availability in different regions.


  1. Where are we on this Roadmap?

  2. If the plan is to now keep JF's at 10LY, will you reconsider the Rorqual's position since it is an industrial ship with only 5LY range?


--
Fang