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Share your experiences with Fozziesov!

First post First post
Author
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#341 - 2015-08-06 13:52:30 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
So what you're arguing is that a more convincing way of fixing the problems with EVE Online's sovereignty system would be to randomly ban 90% of Goonswarm's membership?

Well I can certainly get behind this.


The way to fix the Sov problem is get rid of Sov (which get's rid of the stupid idea that you can 'funnel' people into certain types of gameplay with game mechanics).
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#342 - 2015-08-06 13:53:47 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
For the love of God just drop all nullsec mechanics and let the players sort it out.


This.

Not today spaghetti.

Falin Whalen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#343 - 2015-08-06 13:56:33 UTC
Icycle wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:

I love PvP, I just don't consider chasing a cheap ship designed for evasion to be PvP. It's boring, and if you do catch him there no real loss. For me, combat needs to be about commitment. Fozziesov lacks that.


lol since when ceptors are evasion of pvp? Are you mad? What does the class name says. INTERCEPTOR. Its for interception and tackling which all is pvp. It does not say Rookie ship or Transport ship.
I was in a entosis ship the other day. What you call a "troll ceptor". I had an entosis link and I was tackling. If you dont concider that pvp, I dont know what is. Just cos you got some kind of mis concepted notion of what pvp is, you cant blast this non sence.


Being quick enough to catch other ships and tackle them, also makes them quick enough to run away. I propose we call them FLEE-TORS as it suits what you are doing now with the hull.

All you are doing is the equivalent of going up to someones door and ringing the bell, and running away when you hear them get up to answer the door. To you it's hilarious, and since you are quick you can do that to everybody in the neighborhood, to the people having to constantly get up and reset the door bell it's annoying. If you were ringing the bell for a bit if fisticuffs you would stay, but you aren't and it's annoying.

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#344 - 2015-08-06 13:56:42 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
The elephant in the room is that hisec is too large, too profitable and too comfortably at odds with the big-battle 'This is EvE' and BR-5 videos that actually bring people into EvE in the first place.

Until CCP stops trying to be all things to all people (and playstyles), and greatly reduces the size, ISK and content of hisec -- to an empty 'ready room' for the real game in losec/null, EvE will continue to stagnate and not grow. There wont *be* a gold rush or land-grab in nullsec, if 72% of the population are fat and lazily gorging themselves on hisec incursion sweetmeats.

We can no longer look at images like this and scratch our heads in willful ignorance, on why much of EvE losec & null is empty and content-dry, despite any number of tweaking around SOV mechanics themselves.

Brave Newbies (the concept) proved that fast-tracking large numbers of new players out of hisec into losec/null ASAP creates content for many. It's time for CCP to double-down on that concept, with hisec ISK/content/size nerfs to create & feed more groups like Brave Newbies, Chode', etc.

We've tried the 'come get some SOV' carrot. Its now time for some serious hisec sticks.

F

Your obsession with null-sec PvP is noted, but you couldn't possibly be more wrong if you tried.

Firstly, let's snap back to reality and set one thing straight here - CCP is never going to turn hi-sec into an "empty ready room." That is fundamentally 100% not going to occur. You should just probably stop trying to pimp your blog if it's going to continue either demanding that this happen or believing that it will, because it's so detached from reality as to drift into realms of fantasy usually reserved for Steven Universe fanfiction.

People are brought to the game for many reasons and engage in a hell of a lot of things within it, and not all or even most of these things are to do with nullsec PvP. Narrowly focusing on nullsec space and one playstyle to the exclusion of others absolutely will kill the game - players who want to remain in hi-sec or low-sec (which your blog suggests you hold nearly equal disdain for) won't go to nullsec to be part of your meatgrinder just because you take their content away. They'll leave the game, and if 71% of the subscribers get fed up and quit, that's going to bankrupt CCP and there'll be no hi-sec, no low-sec, no nullsec, no W-space and no EVE Online.

(Given that I just mentioned W-space, the most hilarious thing about your blog is you talk about nerfing the profitability of wormholes as well, which sort of shows your true intentions better than anything else)

On a more fundamental level, any attempt to "strip content" from a region of space in an attempt to force players to move to a different one isn't only financial suicide on the part of CCP, it also runs counter to the ethos of EVE Online. You don't seem to understand that this is a sandbox. It is meant to cater to any playstyle. What you're asking for is that it cater to your playstyle exclusively to the exclusion of all others, which is no better than miners asking for invulnerability from ganking in hi-sec.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Icycle
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#345 - 2015-08-06 13:58:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Icycle
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

Brave Newbies (the concept) proved that fast-tracking large numbers of new players out of hisec into losec/null ASAP creates content for many. It's time for CCP to double-down on that concept, with hisec ISK/content/size nerfs to create & feed more groups like Brave Newbies, Chode', etc.


It is important to look after the new players in high sec. Everyone that starts starts in high sec. EVE is a lot to take.
I dont think Brave newbies created much to tell you the truth. It full of present players alts and not so much newbies as it believed to be. I personally think unless you make high sec totally and i meant totally s***, it wont move people to null. BUt i think it will also cause a lot of people so unsunscribe alts and a lot of actual new players to leave. People will always find a way around it, much like CFC does.

I do still think that Fozzy sov has given a lot more to the smaller entities that any other expansion in eve and I applaud them for it. It really creates a lot of content for us. Even super capital and titan content, the only difference is that we are been dropped in this scenario Lol
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#346 - 2015-08-06 13:59:11 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
"Are you suggesting" is basically an attempt to force words down someones throat that they have never said, and fail.
No, it's taking your beating around the bush and straigtening it out. The system has been put in, and it's terrible, most people agree. We're stating what's wrong with it and you're telling us we should just shut up. So to me that sounds like you think we should just put up with terrible mechanics rather than push for imrpovements.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
I STATED (not suggested) that someone (you) from organisations of thousands of players controlling most of know space whining about a single disposable frigate is rather pathetic.
And I'd agree if what we were complaining about was a single disposable frigate. It's not however. What we're complaining about is the way that an alliance level activity (that's what sov is) can now be reasonably contested by a single player in a disposable ship and that every single one of them must be dealt with as a significant threat otherwise your system is reinforced in 15-45 minutes. I'm all for sov being easier to contest that the old system but fozziesov has taken it too far.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
As to the changes having lead to stagnant boring gameplay, well, thats just like your opinion, man.
Many others in this very thread have a different and contradictory one, equally as valid as yours.
Well it's not just my opinion, it seems to be quite a few players opinions from a variety of null groups. Sure, there are a handful of loud NPC alts going "grr goons" and MOA being given a CTA to post in these threads, but most of those are just happy that sov holders gameplay is boring rather than rationally looking at the system that's been put in place.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
I dont see you raising your concerns with the game developer.
By all means, start a thread addressed to CCP and do so.
Instead I see you whining and arguing with other players that your opinion and preference trumps theirs.
You realise this thread that you are posting in is a thread raised by a CSM member specifically for us to talk about the problems with the new sov system, right? This thread and the other one I've been posting in related to this are the places to address CCP.

Considering you've literally walked into a CSM driven thread going "HTFU" and then bitching at people for having opinions on fozziesov, it's pretty funny that you would go off about how we should be addressing CCP.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#347 - 2015-08-06 14:01:22 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
[q
The 'upset' has nothing to do with losing anything, it has everything to do with the fact that this new system isn't very much fun to play even if it is EASIER to hold on to vast amounts of space with it.

Could you elaborate a bit on this, please?
Especially the italized part.


Isn't it obvious? Can you not see a map? "Small groups" might nibble an edge or 2 here or there (and they are being allowed to but less small groups who just want to let them in long enough to farm them for kills), but how much space has the largets group in the game (imperium) lost?

Not an inch,that's how much. It's because the GOALS of aegis sov (which are the same as the original goals of Dominion, "open up space to small groups") were flawed from the very beginning. CCP needs to stop worrying about 'small groups' and let the chips fall where they may.

It's pure dumb to think that human beings won't group up in ever larger groups in any game like this. Human beings are those things that in real life went from nomadic tribes to densely populated mostly urban Nuclear Armed Super Powers in a blink of an eye relative to how long Earth has been able to sustain life. Dinousaurs couldn't do that in 165 million years , we did it in less than 1 lol. Dinos suck people rule lol.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#348 - 2015-08-06 14:04:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Andreus Ixiris wrote:

...
People are brought to the game for many reasons and engage in a hell of a lot of things within it, and not all or even most of these things are to do with nullsec PvP.
..

I am yet to see large swaths of new players join the game because they saw a dank hisec mining, Level 3-4 or incursion video.

Wilful
Ignorance
Serves
No-one

p.s.
Rekt.

F
Salvos Rhoska
#349 - 2015-08-06 14:05:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Falin Whalen wrote:
All you are doing is the equivalent of going up to someones door and ringing the bell, and running away when you hear them get up to answer the door. To you it's hilarious, and since you are quick you can do that to everybody in the neighborhood, to the people having to constantly get up and reset the door bell it's annoying. If you were ringing the bell for a bit if fisticuffs you would stay, but you aren't and it's annoying.


So sorry your empire of thousands of alts is annoyed by single disposable frigates.

This must be terrible for you.

I know I cant feel your deep pain, but Im there for you if you need me.
Salvos Rhoska
#350 - 2015-08-06 14:16:19 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:

Considering you've literally walked into a CSM driven thread going "HTFU" and then bitching at people for having opinions on fozziesov, it's pretty funny that you would go off about how we should be addressing CCP.

And yet you have not addressed a single post with constructive feedback to CSM or CCP.

Was the same thing with you last time we engaged here.

Whats the problem really?
Does your job description not allow you to represent directly to the source instead of engaging other posters opinions?

Quite seriously, if you have good suggestions and good experiential anecdotes to provide, type them up and post them here as addressed to CCP.

I for one would respect that enormously, read it with great interest, and ofc tear it apart as best I can of which you would expect no less of me.

Take a stand, man.
I heartily encourage this before this thread devolves any further and you lose your opportunity to communicate your suggestions.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#351 - 2015-08-06 14:17:45 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
So what you're arguing is that a more convincing way of fixing the problems with EVE Online's sovereignty system would be to randomly ban 90% of Goonswarm's membership?

Well I can certainly get behind this.
That wouldn't fix a thing. You'd still end up with a group getting up to a size that is considered "too big" by the others. The only thing that banning 90% of goons might do to fix sov is kill off the game once and for all, since I doubt CCP could survive that many sub losses.

Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Hey, if your problem is that you have a system which Goons are always trying to game, and no matter how much you change the system, the Goons still find a way to game it, maybe the system isn't the root cause of the issue.
Game the system, you mean like in every MMO ever? When have you ever played an MMO where people aren't trying to find the most optimal way of doing everything?

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Captain Awkward
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#352 - 2015-08-06 14:21:18 UTC
Icycle wrote:


lol since when ceptors are evasion of pvp? Are you mad? What does the class name says. INTERCEPTOR. Its for interception and tackling which all is pvp. It does not say Rookie ship or Transport ship.
I was in a entosis ship the other day. What you call a "troll ceptor". I had an entosis link and I was tackling. If you dont concider that pvp, I dont know what is. Just cos you got some kind of mis concepted notion of what pvp is, you cant blast this non sence.
.

Its called INTERCEPTOR and not EVADER. It got bubble immunity to get more pvp not less pvp by using its imunity to troll and evade capturing.

Again and again. No one has a actual problem with entosis if you are actually willing to fight for the control auf the grid.
A trollceptor is only a trollceptor when its used for trolling. Is that so hard to understand?

Giving frigs the option the use entosis is a mistake I think. The old system required a lot of dps and a big commitment. The new system requires only a single frig with a link. The bar was lowered to mutch.

Even very small entitys can be expected to bring more than a single frig to threaten sov.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#353 - 2015-08-06 14:24:28 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
And yet you have not addressed a single post with constructive feedback to CSM or CCP.

Was the same thing with you last time we engaged here.
Everything we post here, this entire discussion is aimed at being a source of information for CCP and the CSM. And yes, I remember last time you were trying to demand everyone wrote letter like:

Dear CCP
My problem with X is Y.
Yours sincerely
A player of your game.

Amusingly, you don't even want to do that, you just want to come in and complain at us for having opinions. You're not addressing CCP either. Hell, you're not even involved in sov, so what are you even doing here?

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
I for one would respect that enormously
I couldn't care less whether you'd respect it or not. Your opinion of me is irrelevant.

I'll continue in the same way as has always been the way in this forum. We'll have back and forths between involved parties gradually wearing away at the issues until CCP and the CSM decide they've got enough information to make an informed decision. If you don't like that, use the block feature before you lose your **** this time.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#354 - 2015-08-06 14:29:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Andreus Ixiris
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
I am yet to see large swaths of new players join the game because they saw a dank hisec mining, Level 3-4 or incursion video.

Wilful
Ignorance
Serves
No-one

p.s.
Rekt.

F

Just dropping links to one battle and then saying "rekt" doesn't actually refute any of the points I made - and it's funny that your mind immediately jumped to mining, level 3-4 missions or incursions, when what I was actually thinking about was things like this (lowsec factional warfare), this (lowsec R&K carrier hilarity), this (lowsec R&K carrier hilarity), this (W-space R&K carrier hilarity) or this (masterfully-executed corporate heist against an Amarrian roleplay corporation - by another roleplayer, incidentally - that basically set the template for all future corporate betrayals). I mean, this all seems like real fun stuff happened in all the areas you want to "strip of content." But no, of course, you're right. All good content happens in nullsec, and people only come to EVE for the nullsec meatgrinder.

P.S. It's funny that you mentioned Brave Newbies as, quote:

Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Brave Newbies (the concept) proved that fast-tracking large numbers of new players out of hisec into losec/null ASAP creates content for many.

I'd say it's actually a better example of a highly successfu hi-sec/low-sec newbie-focused alliance that moved into nullsec and got itself destroyed by nullsec politics.

As they say - rekt.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#355 - 2015-08-06 14:31:59 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:

I'd say it's actually a better example of a highly successfu hi-sec/low-sec newbie-focused alliance that moved into nullsec and got itself destroyed by nullsec politics.


I would say that reflected far more on their exceedingly toxic and inept leadership than on the ephemeral concept of "null politics", personally.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Icycle
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#356 - 2015-08-06 14:41:57 UTC
Falin Whalen wrote:
Icycle wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:

I love PvP, I just don't consider chasing a cheap ship designed for evasion to be PvP. It's boring, and if you do catch him there no real loss. For me, combat needs to be about commitment. Fozziesov lacks that.


lol since when ceptors are evasion of pvp? Are you mad? What does the class name says. INTERCEPTOR. Its for interception and tackling which all is pvp. It does not say Rookie ship or Transport ship.
I was in a entosis ship the other day. What you call a "troll ceptor". I had an entosis link and I was tackling. If you dont concider that pvp, I dont know what is. Just cos you got some kind of mis concepted notion of what pvp is, you cant blast this non sence.


Being quick enough to catch other ships and tackle them, also makes them quick enough to run away. I propose we call them FLEE-TORS as it suits what you are doing now with the hull.

All you are doing is the equivalent of going up to someones door and ringing the bell, and running away when you hear them get up to answer the door. To you it's hilarious, and since you are quick you can do that to everybody in the neighborhood, to the people having to constantly get up and reset the door bell it's annoying. If you were ringing the bell for a bit if fisticuffs you would stay, but you aren't and it's annoying.


You can rename then or redifine them all you want. Just remember they are pvp ship. That is all in your head.
They exists to catch all the pvpers and pve that whine in here Twisted.
You keep blobbing and people will run away. Thats your fault you dont know how to bait!
Salvos Rhoska
#357 - 2015-08-06 14:43:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Lucas Kell wrote:
.Amusingly, you don't even want to do that, you just want to come in and complain at us for having opinions. You're not addressing CCP either. Hell, you're not even involved in sov, so what are you even doing here.


I dont have a problem with CCP.
You do.

I dont have a problem with Fozziesov.
You do.

But instead of addressing CCP, you attack posters with opinions different than your own.

As I said, you are ranting at other customers, rather than delivering concrete feedback to the source.
Its like you are in a shop, shouting at the other customers that they are wrong... Makes no sense.

TLDR: Apparently ypur organisational function here and ingame does not allow you to present policy and a direct statement to CCP. You are here specifically and only for the function to ambiguate and engage posters and shout them down, not the source, which you resolutely refuse to address then and now for your concerns.

Protip: Its not us you need to convince, its CCP.
Shouting at people that your view is right and theirs is not, is a crapout.

Let CCP and us here your suggestions, rather than you just shouting at people you dont agree with.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#358 - 2015-08-06 14:52:04 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
I dont have a problem with Fozziesov.
You do.
Right, so go take your complaining about us having opinions elsewhere. Maybe head on over to F&I and make a thread entitled "Everyone should write CCP letters instead of having discussions in general discussion". Further derailing of this thread to discuss whether or not you feel my method of communicating with the CSM is correct will be reported.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#359 - 2015-08-06 14:53:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Captain Awkward wrote:
Its called INTERCEPTOR and not EVADER. It got bubble immunity to get more pvp not less pvp by using its imunity to troll and evade capturing.

The trollceptor is emergent, you can say that for sure

edit: well maybe they intended for people to poke sov with these interdiction nullified ships that can also just mwd away at mad speed to nearly trivialize the no-warp entosis effect but you know that's a bit much

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Salvos Rhoska
#360 - 2015-08-06 14:58:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Lucas Kell wrote:
Further derailing of this thread to discuss whether or not you feel my method of communicating with the CSM is correct will be reported.


Report threats in return for an amicable and encouraging suggestion to type up your expert and informed views and address them here to CCP and for public scrutiny, as opposed to attacking, threatening and shouting down people with different opinions.

Ok.

I dont have suggestions. I am not intimately involved or informed on the problem as you are.
If I was, I would post them here to CCP and for public review.

But I do know shouting people down and attacking their opinions without offering something better is a losing path.
Put your cards on the table. Its easy to be a critic when you have no chips in the game.

Specific wording of OP is:
"What I'm looking for is your experienced with fozziesov so far - not your opinions or feelings - but actual stories about what you've done with fozziesov to date. Good experiences, bad experiences, funny anecdotes.... please share them all. "

How about you do that rather than shouting at other players that theirs are wrong.
Just a suggestion, you know.