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Has Off-grid links been removed yet?

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Zsha
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#21 - 2015-07-29 13:25:37 UTC
Remove the need for paying for a second account to remain competitive, this is the most annoying thing!!!!!!!!!!!
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
OnlyFleets.
#22 - 2015-07-29 13:28:43 UTC
i dont understand why that is even relevant, are you saying remove alts so people can have fairish fights by only running expensive implants to have an edge? good luck getting ccp to lose money on subscriptions

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Zsha
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#23 - 2015-07-29 13:33:19 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
i dont understand why that is even relevant, are you saying remove alts so people can have fairish fights by only running expensive implants to have an edge? good luck getting ccp to lose money on subscriptions


Yeah I am.
Switch Savage
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2015-07-29 13:37:50 UTC
Just to clarify i have no problem with OGB. When you choose engagements they are just another thing to factor in to the "can i kill him" assessment.
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
OnlyFleets.
#25 - 2015-07-29 13:46:43 UTC
Zsha wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
i dont understand why that is even relevant, are you saying remove alts so people can have fairish fights by only running expensive implants to have an edge? good luck getting ccp to lose money on subscriptions


Yeah I am.


well doubt it will happen so get use to it and buy a booster or some nice shiny implants

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Zsha
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#26 - 2015-07-29 13:47:26 UTC
Switch Savage wrote:
Just to clarify i have no problem with OGB. When you choose engagements they are just another thing to factor in to the "can i kill him" assessment.

Which is wrong
Zsha
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#27 - 2015-07-29 13:48:14 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Zsha wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
i dont understand why that is even relevant, are you saying remove alts so people can have fairish fights by only running expensive implants to have an edge? good luck getting ccp to lose money on subscriptions


Yeah I am.


well doubt it will happen so get use to it and buy a booster or some nice shiny implants


What implants?
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
OnlyFleets.
#28 - 2015-07-29 13:49:48 UTC
high grade snakes, slaves, crystals, full rack of +5's or above etc etc

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#29 - 2015-07-29 13:58:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
... They're looking for a way which won't melt TQ. Ranged is easy. Just test the range to the boosting ship ever X. That's an expensive operation though. ...
"Are they on the over view?"
"Are they boosting?"
Yes + yes = receive boosts.

This.
The server already figures out which ships share the same grid. You would think applying boosts to just those ships would not be that expensive in sever cycles.

Edit: This still might not solve the issue. Example:
You see someone you want to fight. He is alone, like you, and you figure its a good fight. You engage, and just as you do, his alt crosses the grid boundary. The boost becomes active. You lose.

The alt can appear in several ways: Fly across a grid boundary, de-cloak, warp in, jump, undock.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#30 - 2015-07-29 15:54:31 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
... They're looking for a way which won't melt TQ. Ranged is easy. Just test the range to the boosting ship ever X. That's an expensive operation though. ...
"Are they on the over view?"
"Are they boosting?"
Yes + yes = receive boosts.

This.
The server already figures out which ships share the same grid. You would think applying boosts to just those ships would not be that expensive in sever cycles.

Edit: This still might not solve the issue. Example:
You see someone you want to fight. He is alone, like you, and you figure its a good fight. You engage, and just as you do, his alt crosses the grid boundary. The boost becomes active. You lose.

The alt can appear in several ways: Fly across a grid boundary, de-cloak, warp in, jump, undock.



Not quite...

OGB will remain until the dogma rewtire is finished. for a rought idea why and why its so damn complicated... watch this

FF15 'Rewriting Dogma'

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#31 - 2015-07-29 15:58:08 UTC
I really do not understand why people whine about ogb' something that has been in game for a very long time. Unless i have missed whine threads over the years due to not paying attention.

You do know that just because you lose doens;t mean they were boosted, they could of had implants, drugs, or used heat to kick your ass.

And a booster alt can;t boot if he's cloaked, and most of the time they have less offenses if boosted. So you drop probes to make him run. Then go after your target. not that difficult. or go into the the fight thinking they might be boosted and plan accordingly. you know, use your damn brain.

Or get a friend to boost for you to even the playing field.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#32 - 2015-07-29 16:04:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
On-grid boosts won't make it easier for the solo pvper, because:

1. Vincent's post above
2. Will favour large groups
3. Affects only lowsec and nullsec without changing anything in highsec
4. grid foo

If/when there are changes, I'd prefer a broader set of options that solo pvpers and fleets can use to counter the effects of links. Things like:

- Deployable boost blocking unit that can be dropped on grid and have an area of effect against links
- Modules that can be fitted to ships that when used, counter the effects of links (eg. similar to ECM Burst that is a small area, or targetted modules that can be used against a primary)

These would be things that can the used in any security space, so affect links everywhere; and which can also be destroyed during a fight, creating new choices of targets (eg. ships fitted with counter-links modules, on-grid deployables), or fleets could try to maneuver the fight into or out of the areas of effect, etc.

Links are here to stay for the foreseeable future and if they are changed, more interesting play options would be better than just the same thing in a different place and that won't actually solve the issue.

Just my 0.02c
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2015-07-29 16:43:49 UTC
Niriel Greez wrote:
Zsha wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Ccp has said several times they AGREE OGLs are broken and need fixed
They said they cant figure out how to fix the code though



Not quite true.

They're looking for a way which won't melt TQ.

Ranged is easy. Just test the range to the boosting ship ever X. That's an expensive operation though.

(see what happens with 15 people all spam dscan at the same time)


What does melting TQ have to do with anything? TQ Isn't even a word.

Normal people who hold one account get the shaft.

On grid boosting SHOULD be a thing, there would be an increase in Command ship usage since the reason behind their design, to give boosts to fleet members in combat.
Fielding a Command ship in an engagement would be a good bring to any fleet AKA LINKS.

**** off grid boosting, seriously, it's such a sly way for someone to get the upper hand in an engagement, through solo play/small gang.

Really don't get how people enjoy alt-tabbing from combat char/link char, basically using 2 accounts to kill a 1 account holding person.

COME ON CCP ALREADY...................................................yaaaaaaaawwwwwwwnnnnn.


Stop posting please.

On-grid links means that the bigger entity will be able to defend them, and thus use them, while everyone else will not. This would only benefit the blob further and is a terrible idea.

Either completely remove links from the game and refund SP, or leave it as it is.


This is not correct, and is a common red herring thrown out by people in love with their booster alt. A larger entity can easily devote a combat probing/gank team to pinpoint links at safes, gates, or stations and then remove them or force them to dock or jump. Your argument only applies to fleets led by incompetents, and you could just as easily argue that on-grid boosters could be maintained and made tactically useful against incompetent FC's.

It's only the solo players and very small groups which cannot easily counter OGB, aside from bringing their own. Needless to say if the only counter for a booster alt is to buy your own, that's a broken mechanic and clearly pay to win.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2015-07-29 16:50:25 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
I really do not understand why people whine about ogb' something that has been in game for a very long time. Unless i have missed whine threads over the years due to not paying attention.

You do know that just because you lose doens;t mean they were boosted, they could of had implants, drugs, or used heat to kick your ass.

And a booster alt can;t boot if he's cloaked, and most of the time they have less offenses if boosted. So you drop probes to make him run. Then go after your target. not that difficult. or go into the the fight thinking they might be boosted and plan accordingly. you know, use your damn brain.

Or get a friend to boost for you to even the playing field.


Have you ever tried to rapidly probe down a strategic cruiser while running a frigate/destroyer 1v1 on your other screen? Let me know how that goes. Boosting is an afk activity; your suggested counter is not. Your second suggested counter is to have a friend who is willing to follow you around all day without actually participating in the game?

And links in lowsec don't sit at safes they sit on gates or stations and dock/jump when aggressed. Use your damn brain and don't comment on things you don't understand.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2015-07-29 16:53:21 UTC
Switch Savage wrote:
Just to clarify i have no problem with OGB. When you choose engagements they are just another thing to factor in to the "can i kill him" assessment.


The risk level for that advantage is too low compared to drugs, implants, and faction hulls/mods.
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#36 - 2015-07-29 17:00:27 UTC
This game would be so much better if there was some way to limit humans to one character. No throwaway scouts, everyone jumps blind, no solo OGB, no using your alt to remove kill rights etc.... Want a bomber wing? Have friends, Want a scout? Have friends. Want boosts? Have friends...etc...

No company is going to kill their income stream like that though.
SurrenderMonkey
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2015-07-29 17:03:03 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
... They're looking for a way which won't melt TQ. Ranged is easy. Just test the range to the boosting ship ever X. That's an expensive operation though. ...
"Are they on the over view?"
"Are they boosting?"
Yes + yes = receive boosts.

This.
The server already figures out which ships share the same grid. You would think applying boosts to just those ships would not be that expensive in sever cycles.


Only if you didn't think particularly hard, and didn't bother watching the Dogma presentation from FF.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#38 - 2015-07-29 17:05:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2015-07-29 17:05:49 UTC
Many people wonder why CCP hasn't already implemented simple tweaks that would go a long way in re-shuffling the link meta, with zero impact on the server load:

1. Reduce the bonuses: they're extremely OP compared to any other option (implants, shiny mods, etc.)

2. Give at least a weapons timer: boosters sitting on station or gates are easy mode; might as well allow people to boost while docked!

3. Give a sig radius increase while active: same as above, considering links in safespots

4. Show on killmails: a simple asterisk (*) next to a ship on the killmail that received boosts in, say, the last 30 minutes would be good enough (no need to be more accurate, imo)


These combined would solve the only real issue with links: using them or not is currently NOT a meaningful choice, because it's ALWAYS better to have them. Uninteresting gameplay, imho.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Arla Sarain
#40 - 2015-07-29 17:07:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
... They're looking for a way which won't melt TQ. Ranged is easy. Just test the range to the boosting ship ever X. That's an expensive operation though. ...
"Are they on the over view?"
"Are they boosting?"
Yes + yes = receive boosts.

Never understood why this wouldn't work when all the naysayers keep trolling like they know something.
Nobody cares what distance they are at. If it's on grid, it's manageable, or at least less obscure.
And what about the watchlist. You don't get health bars if people are off-grid. Doubt it's an expensive operation.
Like somebody said, CCP is just milking subs. As with all alts.

Lan Wang wrote:


well doubt it will happen so get use to it and buy a booster or some nice shiny implants


Literally half the bullsh*t.

Implants give 1 effect. And implants stack with links.

You don't counter links by having implants. You counter a linking alt by going through probing gymnastics whilst the other guy comfortably manages his main char. In lowsec its even safer, because you just sit your neutral alts on gates or stations and docks/jumps at any sign of danger. The main avoids fights or disengages.

This toxic leniency towards OGB is pretty sickening. Undock more often and start to matter please.

Like Demerius said, current OGB links only help small gangs against large groups if the said large group decided to not commit one of their grunts to do some probing. The removal of OGB ruining it for small gangs is bollocks. Small gangs win fights by kiting the crap out of all those brawly ship fans, not through OGB.
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