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Dear CCP: Check yourself, because you're wrecking yourself

First post
Author
Torrent Talon
Hierarch Apotheosis Consortium
Ruinous Powers
#1 - 2015-07-24 07:41:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Torrent Talon
Hey there,

I've been playing EvE since 2009, been through all walks of eve life in one form of another and i still enjoy the game, but what i see you doing to this game with it's development model and your approach to marketing is transitioning this game into a game that i left with no grievances at all back in '09 on the very first day i played this game (World of Warcraft), after one day i was hooked because of the emergent gameplay i experienced on day 1; i took a frigate into low-sec and someone scanned down my mission and killed me in a thrasher, then had a conversation about the dangers of doing so.

Your current development model has 2 very major flaws and i don't mean medium level exaggerations i mean MAJOR flaws;
1. You seem to go ahead with changes even when the response by the player base is a majority 'wtf is this for, it adds nothing to the game and makes people more risk averse' (thanks Fozzie with your 'revolutionary' sov idea.
2. You have forsaken emergent gameplay and you have tried to patch these up with things like mobile depots and siphon units to name a couple

All i ask is that you stop pushing **** through in an expansion if the response is not overall positive, this new development model gives the players less time to see the true nature of what you want to introduce into the game, instead of pushing through even more garbage than you used to, this 5 week dev cycle was meant to hinder that, but it seems to have accelerated the process.

Your ideas these days really don't have any substance and it's sad that i say you have moved into the realm of WoW-like ideas which i find hugely alarming since it was such a stark opposite back in 09.

In essence; Stop Alienating Your Playerbase.
flakeys
Doomheim
#2 - 2015-07-24 07:45:02 UTC
Torrent Talon wrote:


All i ask is that you stop pushing **** through in an expansion if the response is not overall positive.


Uhm , wich will mean they can not change or add ANYTHING. Shocked

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

Yang Aurilen
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#3 - 2015-07-24 08:09:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Yang Aurilen
Torrent Talon wrote:
Hey there,

I've been playing EvE since 2009, been through all walks of eve life in one form of another and i still enjoy the game, but what i see you doing to this game with it's development model and your approach to marketing is transitioning this game into a game that i left with no grievances at all back in '09 on the very first day i played this game (World of Warcraft), after one day i was hooked because of the emergent gameplay i experienced on day 1; i took a frigate into low-sec and someone scanned down my mission and killed me in a thrasher, then had a conversation about the dangers of doing so.

Your current development model has 2 very major flaws and i don't mean medium level exaggerations i mean MAJOR flaws;
1. You seem to go ahead with changes even when the response by the player base is a majority 'wtf is this for, it adds nothing to the game and makes people more risk averse' (thanks Fozzie with your 'revolutionary' sov idea.
2. You have forsaken emergent gameplay and you have tried to patch these up with things like mobile depots and siphon units to name a couple

All i ask is that you stop pushing **** through in an expansion if the response is not overall positive, this new development model gives the players less time to see the true nature of what you want to introduce into the game, instead of pushing through even more garbage than you used to, this 5 week dev cycle was meant to hinder that, but it seems to have accelerated the process.

Your ideas these days really don't have any substance and it's sad that i say you have moved into the realm of WoW-like ideas which i find hugely alarming since it was such a stark opposite back in 09.

In essence; Stop Alienating Your Playerbase.


When you change something not everyone will be happy. For example IF I cured every disease, made world peace and mankind immortal there will be that ONE guy/group that will whine about something like "I liked having aids" or "my gunshop closed because of you FU" and lastly "My funeral business closed down because no one is dying wahhh".

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!

Lan Wang
African Atomic.
OnlyFleets.
#4 - 2015-07-24 08:13:40 UTC
ah the daily ccp rant, i enjoy half reading these then thinking, hmmm i read something similar yesterday

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#5 - 2015-07-24 08:23:30 UTC
Fozzie sov is new and novel, I'm going to give it a little bit of time before judging.

and beyond "wah wah fozziesov" I'm not sure what your post is trying to say

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2015-07-24 08:25:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
flakeys wrote:
Uhm , wich will mean they can not change or add ANYTHING. Shocked

Unfortunately, this.
Remember marauders rebalance thread, for example? Overflow of whine was of epic proportions back then, and positive feedback was at most equal in volume to negative, and it was basically same people posting anyway. However, we ended up with ships that people use for various purposes in PvE and PvP instead of being so-so mission running boats that required disproportional SP investment in comparison to what they did.

Holy s***, it was like 400 pages long. I don't even think feedback on sov (effing sov!), structures and missiles combined right now is that massive.

Reminds me of good old game development truism: don't ask what game people want, they actually have no idea.
Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2015-07-24 08:29:43 UTC
People toss the term "emergent gameplay" and "sandbox" around a lot without seemingly to understand what it means. Fozziesov doesn't interfere with either of these ideas and I would argue mobile depos add to both of them.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2015-07-24 08:56:29 UTC
I'm gonna say I understand the OP's point and I agree with the sentiment.

Ugh



DMC

Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#9 - 2015-07-24 09:04:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
Yang Aurilen wrote:
Torrent Talon wrote:
Hey there,

I've been playing EvE since 2009, been through all walks of eve life in one form of another and i still enjoy the game, but what i see you doing to this game with it's development model and your approach to marketing is transitioning this game into a game that i left with no grievances at all back in '09 on the very first day i played this game (World of Warcraft), after one day i was hooked because of the emergent gameplay i experienced on day 1; i took a frigate into low-sec and someone scanned down my mission and killed me in a thrasher, then had a conversation about the dangers of doing so.

Your current development model has 2 very major flaws and i don't mean medium level exaggerations i mean MAJOR flaws;
1. You seem to go ahead with changes even when the response by the player base is a majority 'wtf is this for, it adds nothing to the game and makes people more risk averse' (thanks Fozzie with your 'revolutionary' sov idea.
2. You have forsaken emergent gameplay and you have tried to patch these up with things like mobile depots and siphon units to name a couple

All i ask is that you stop pushing **** through in an expansion if the response is not overall positive, this new development model gives the players less time to see the true nature of what you want to introduce into the game, instead of pushing through even more garbage than you used to, this 5 week dev cycle was meant to hinder that, but it seems to have accelerated the process.

Your ideas these days really don't have any substance and it's sad that i say you have moved into the realm of WoW-like ideas which i find hugely alarming since it was such a stark opposite back in 09.

In essence; Stop Alienating Your Playerbase.


When you change something not everyone will be happy. For example IF I cured every disease, made world peace and mankind immortal there will be that ONE guy/group that will whine about something like "I liked having aids" or "my gunshop closed because of you FU" and lastly "My funeral business closed down because no one is dying wahhh".


The comical levels of some of the players in eve always exceed my expectations, LOL.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#10 - 2015-07-24 09:20:36 UTC
flakeys wrote:
Torrent Talon wrote:


All i ask is that you stop pushing **** through in an expansion if the response is not overall positive.


Uhm , wich will mean they can not change or add ANYTHING. Shocked



It's not the change (*cough* nerfing *cough*) that are the problem, It's the RAPID pace that these changes occur that's cause problems with people trying to adjust to the previous changes. All these rapid sudden changes is having a double edged sword effect. Sure CCP are making improvements, but the speed of these rapid changes are forcing players to make sudden adjustments too often and too quickly which in turn is killing the fun factor for eve.
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
OnlyFleets.
#11 - 2015-07-24 09:24:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
people are never happy regardless what people do, there is always someone ready to p!ss on someone else's bonfire

i dont mind the updates, i really dont care tbh i just fly around dying and that makes me happy

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#12 - 2015-07-24 10:47:10 UTC
Comments on Fozzie Sov, its early days, the new structures will be important in terms of how this really works, this is still a band aid approach in many ways. Yet once again one has to congratulate the Goons for such excellent play in getting their indicies up to reduce their exposure in Deklin, smart play as always.

The kiting the timer approach was expected and I was amused to see that mentioned by the Mittan, Laz and Elise as letting a secret out of the bag, guys that was understood by quite a few people as being the likely approach, I was amused to see that as a deliberate by CCP.

The amusing thing was seeing the Goons go on about troll interceptors at the troll level and then at the leadership level say its not going to work, again many of us realised that using interceptors was actually a waste of time and it would just be grab a kill or waste their time if you had coverage of course.

One thing that was news to me and does break the system is that the defender loses their indexes when the IHUB goes down, those indicies should not go down to 0 but should erode over time, CCP you are being idiots here. And when I hear that the indicies of the previous sov holder go to the new owner with the IHUB I thought doh, CCP again being silly...

I was listening to the comments by Elise about people holding 60 systems with 1,500 people and suggesting that these people go to a single constellation near NPC space and try to hold that and I thought nope, that plays directly into PL's hands. Those entities with a dedicated core player base can grab a load of systems and just be nomadic in those systems, that is the way to approach it if you are a 1,500 man alliance with a hard core of 300 dedicated active players. If you focus on one constellation then PL and the Goons can throw all their stuff at you and hell camp you, do not do it. Be nomadic in your space and you can weather this, do not get pushed into a final constellation all your stuff is there, it will kill your alliance, if your region starts to fall to too many attackers get out and then come back in when they have gone elsewhere. You need to be smart and hang in there, let them play wack a mile over a large number of systems, enjoy!

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Dradis Aulmais
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-07-24 10:57:56 UTC
I heard rant rant rant grr goons.

Running a game by popular opinion? Wtf.
Most people are idiots and the idiot is usually the most vocal.

Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896

Free The Scope Three

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#14 - 2015-07-24 11:21:45 UTC
Dradis Aulmais wrote:
I heard rant rant rant grr goons.

Running a game by popular opinion? Wtf.
Most people are idiots and the idiot is usually the most vocal.


Silly man, the OP did not mentions Goons once.

I find people who don't read stuff and throw in stupid one liners as being being the real idiots

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Yang Aurilen
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#15 - 2015-07-24 11:24:15 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Dradis Aulmais wrote:
I heard rant rant rant grr goons.

Running a game by popular opinion? Wtf.
Most people are idiots and the idiot is usually the most vocal.


Silly man, the OP did not mentions Goons once.

I find people who don't read stuff and throw in stupid one liners as being being the real idiots


Every thread in GD always has a grr goons sentiment.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!

flakeys
Doomheim
#16 - 2015-07-24 11:38:45 UTC
Yang Aurilen wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Dradis Aulmais wrote:
I heard rant rant rant grr goons.

Running a game by popular opinion? Wtf.
Most people are idiots and the idiot is usually the most vocal.


Silly man, the OP did not mentions Goons once.

I find people who don't read stuff and throw in stupid one liners as being being the real idiots


Every thread in GD always has a grr goons sentiment.



If you think you are the center of the world then you will see signs of this everywhere .... Blink

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#17 - 2015-07-24 11:49:38 UTC
We are doomed! DOOOOOMMMMED I say.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#18 - 2015-07-24 12:23:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
There is a valid point in the original post.
The new development cycles might be too fast and depending on how they are being used, it might be like academics where they are being pushed into writing paper after paper, so there is so much white noise of mediocre publications that research is more difficult.
Quality > quantity?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Lan Wang
African Atomic.
OnlyFleets.
#19 - 2015-07-24 12:28:31 UTC
the whole point was to drip feed content into the game more often than having to rush to a specific deadline

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#20 - 2015-07-24 12:35:45 UTC
Free stuff?
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