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New sovereignty mechanics

First post
Author
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2015-07-23 23:21:33 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
How the hell can't you get a single cepter? what is hard about killing cepters? Oh they ran away. Doesn't that link thingy have a max range?


I don't think anyone's complaining about not being able to defend their space. Sure, a single trollceptor is easy to drive away. It's actually not that hard to defend sov now, given the numbers and activity. The issue is, that it's fairly annoying and not very entertaining.
Kestral Anneto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#62 - 2015-07-24 00:10:09 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
How the hell can't you get a single cepter? what is hard about killing cepters? Oh they ran away. Doesn't that link thingy have a max range?


I don't think anyone's complaining about not being able to defend their space. Sure, a single trollceptor is easy to drive away. It's actually not that hard to defend sov now, given the numbers and activity. The issue is, that it's fairly annoying and not very entertaining.


give this man a cookie, hes smarter than CCP
Darth Terona
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
#63 - 2015-07-24 00:14:14 UTC
Ok. So I'm not in this mess but I have an idea to bounce off those that are.

What if;

1 make the link not fit on a ceptor. This will make pilots that want to attack a system be more dedicated to the cause and cuts out trolling. Gives defenders and attackers more options

2. Make it so reinforcing nodes takes more than one link. Maybe 5 or so.
If an attacker or defender cannot dedicate five ships to the cause, then they deserve to loose.


This will reduce the ammount of trolls and make attacking a system more tactical and less lol
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2015-07-24 00:43:43 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
How the hell can't you get a single cepter? what is hard about killing cepters? Oh they ran away. Doesn't that link thingy have a max range?


I don't think anyone's complaining about not being able to defend their space. Sure, a single trollceptor is easy to drive away. It's actually not that hard to defend sov now, given the numbers and activity. The issue is, that it's fairly annoying and not very entertaining.



Because DENY ALL THE CONTENT... tactics taht the coalitiosn were using in dominin sov was incredbly entretaining?

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2015-07-24 00:47:38 UTC
Diana Nayli wrote:
Deck Cadelanne wrote:
Diana Nayli wrote:

Yeah, we can split fleets, but still nothing will happen.


Split fleets. Give each fleet an entosis link fit ship. Watch as you complete the command node capture really quickly by splitting up and doing several of them at once.

Engage brain. Stop being a "but the FC didn't tell me to push F1" lemming.



But still, there is NO FUN involved. Yeah, we did it. Every squad had it's own system to hold and capture command node. System succesfully defended without any enemy presence. Congrats. Now we will have great mining/ratting empires all around.



AND WHERE WAS THE FUN BEFORE? BEcause clearly by all researchs that CCP made poeopel were NOT FINDING fun at all to stay docked to deny content. ANd that was the MAJOR tactic in dominion sov.


Face it, in dominion 90% of time you did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. MOst allainces even did nto expect epopel to log in, the Idea was to eventaullly call them trough a PING!!!


"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2015-07-24 00:49:04 UTC
Akballah Kassan wrote:
Neuntausend wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Chased around a Moa cepter gang in my solo mega twice and had great fun doing it. Content hasn't been this easy to come by for years.


Have you caught any? (let me answer that: no, they are ******* interceptors)

It's great that you are having fun, but you are really easy to entertain. As long as it involves Megathrons, you seem to be happy.


I think the difference is he doesn't need to roam in a hundred plus fleet for pvp and have FC make all his decisions for him which as an opponent I respect.



Taht is the whole point. PEople will learn that it is MORE fun if you start actign a bit more by yourself and stop expecting a FC to tell you EVERYTHIGN you need to do.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#67 - 2015-07-24 00:52:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Vol Arm'OOO
Eli Stan wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Eli Stan wrote:
... Just a few seconds worth of work.
Over and over again. That is the key thing, the repetition. Everyone is saying, "Don't let small things bother you," but they seem to have never slept in a room with a mosquito many nights running.


Oh no! PVP! Multiple times! However will the game survive???


Fozziesov is pvp the same way killing farmers in fw is pvp. Repetitive, boring, pointless. When your enemies have an endless supply of cheap throw away ships, where is the meaning in the combat?

More to the point, now that it seems clear foziesov is not evejesus, what's next? I predict that ccp continues to dumb down the game in a continuing effort to appeal to new players while aggravating old players, which causes a continuing trickle of old players to leave the game which is not counter balanced by any significant numbers of new players. In other words, the slow burn continues.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.

Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#68 - 2015-07-24 07:45:53 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Eli Stan wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Eli Stan wrote:
... Just a few seconds worth of work.
Over and over again. That is the key thing, the repetition. Everyone is saying, "Don't let small things bother you," but they seem to have never slept in a room with a mosquito many nights running.


Oh no! PVP! Multiple times! However will the game survive???


Fozziesov is pvp the same way killing farmers in fw is pvp. Repetitive, boring, pointless. When your enemies have an endless supply of cheap throw away ships, where is the meaning in the combat?

More to the point, now that it seems clear foziesov is not evejesus, what's next? I predict that ccp continues to dumb down the game in a continuing effort to appeal to new players while aggravating old players, which causes a continuing trickle of old players to leave the game which is not counter balanced by any significant numbers of new players. In other words, the slow burn continues.

Oh god. We are back to a eve is dying thread now? sheesh.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.

Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2015-07-24 08:46:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Daerrol
Aren't entosis links like 20m? Are people entosising you on a regular basis in Condors and ventures? If so, I have a Crusader interceptor pilot I would love to put in your corp and farm these guys. Unlike FW they can't warp out when I warp in, and I get a huge bonus for kiling them

Edit: Entosis links are currently 34m in Jita. So if I kill 1 farmer/trollcondor every 20 minutes I'm getting comparative income to null ratting. Except I can null rat between trollceptor attacks....

The numbers just get mcuh happier if they bring a T2 entosis.
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#70 - 2015-07-24 12:33:31 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Because whack a mole is fun?

Nobody ever gave two figs for what a couple of frigs did to each other in the backendass of nowhere. Eve has always grown because of the big events such as the br fight which lead to news coverage which lead to new subs.


These tears are very sweet indeed. You are really bad at frigate PvP eh? You could always take a Titan to the battle and show those frigates who is boss!

Perhaps you are too chicken to risk something big? Worried it might turn into another BR fight? Put your supercaps where your mouth is son!

Or you could just quit and give me some nice things that you don't need anymore.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#71 - 2015-07-24 13:02:48 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Neuntausend wrote:
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
How the hell can't you get a single cepter? what is hard about killing cepters? Oh they ran away. Doesn't that link thingy have a max range?


I don't think anyone's complaining about not being able to defend their space. Sure, a single trollceptor is easy to drive away. It's actually not that hard to defend sov now, given the numbers and activity. The issue is, that it's fairly annoying and not very entertaining.
... because deny all the content... tactics taht the coalitiosn were using in dominin sov was incredbly entretaining?
My signature points to a different approach.
I think Fozzie's team approached the problem from the wrong direction. Instead of trying to smash apart the coalitions, they could have enabled other groups to grow big enough to actually challenge them for their space.

(Also, Supers and Titans are so common that they could just be heavily nerfed across the board. Less damage output, less need for high eHP structures and less boredom for sub-caps)

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#72 - 2015-07-24 19:00:35 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I think Fozzie's team approached the problem from the wrong direction. Instead of trying to smash apart the coalitions, they could have enabled other groups to grow big enough to actually challenge them for their space.


On paper, they did. There's plenty of space that could be taken quite readily by small, motivated alliances with lots of dedicated people willing to spend time doing virtual work. What can't be patched, is making people want to do said virtual work.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Globby
Never Ignorant Gettin' Goals Accomplished
Gimme Da Loot
#73 - 2015-07-24 19:08:26 UTC
my opinion is changes is good

thanks for listening
Jenshae Chiroptera
#74 - 2015-07-24 19:12:57 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
... by small, motivated alliances with ...
Why are they small? Why do they stay small?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#75 - 2015-07-24 21:08:39 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Vic Jefferson wrote:
... by small, motivated alliances with ...
Why are they small? Why do they stay small?


Simple. Only the best organized and managed entities can survive being big for any appreciable amount of time. There aren't that many people who have the motivation and ability to actually make this sort of thing happen; I believe CCP calls them enablers in their power-point speak. Get more enablers to care about sov if you want to create more, bigger entities. Chances are though, anyone showing promise will find a better deal working for one of the established entities, unless she or he is exceptionally motivated....and currently there's nothing even remotely appealing about sov, at least from my perspective.

It has often been pondered if one were to replay the past 450 million years, if we would end up with a very similar world in terms of the same critters evolving. It has also been pondered, with a more concrete and defensible conclusion, if you reset New Eden, what would happen? Names may be slightly different, but chances are the same personalities and same organizations would rise to, and hold on to power, simply by virtue of the strength of their organizational tools, as those are the primary reason things grow and prosper at that scale. Chance doesn't really play into it that much.

It's not a thing that can be entirely remedied by game mechanics. It's not so much that you cant physically or militarily beat one of of the established entities - far more doable in FozzieSov than it was before. You are also fighting their decade of experience running an alliance/coalition, which is why no new large entities really manifest often, or at least one factor.

Have YOU tried becoming the change it looks like you want to see?

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
#76 - 2015-07-24 21:24:39 UTC
Eli Stan wrote:
Diana Nayli wrote:


But still, there is NO FUN involved. Yeah, we did it. Every squad had it's own system to hold and capture command node. System succesfully defended without any enemy presence. Congrats. Now we will have great mining/ratting empires all around.


How'd the capture event get generated in the first place? Why not just kill the Interceptor when it attempts to reinforce the TCU, IHub or Outpost in the first place, rather than wait for the command node spawn even to happen? Undock a Stabber or RLML Caracal, blap the Inty, go back to whatever else you were going. Just a few seconds worth of work.


But...but...they'd have to actually be there to do that...

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."

- Hunter S. Thompson

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#77 - 2015-07-25 03:07:50 UTC
Trollsov is the greatest update that really shakes up null...

By the way, we're starting up our program of cooperative coprosperity, check "Sell Orders" subforum for details. Really shaken up null is available...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Jenshae Chiroptera
#78 - 2015-07-25 11:44:25 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
... which is why no new large entities really manifest often, or at least one factor. ...
You do not think another large factor is a bottle neck? Where the estabilished alliances shut the small ones out unless they join their coalitions?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Danny Nuttall
Perkone
Caldari State
#79 - 2015-07-25 12:02:18 UTC
i wonder what it would be like if instead of command nodes appearing it was instead facilities in districts on the planets, maybe even get those dust bunnies involved somehow

Aka the MatchMaker

Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#80 - 2015-07-25 12:08:59 UTC
Tollen Gallen wrote:
EVE




I like Cheese.



TTLTL: DL