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Awox Nerf Fails to Boost EVE Numbers
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Sasha Nyemtsov
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-07-20 12:01:20 UTC
The verdict is in.

The much-trumpeted 'Great Idea' for turning Highsec corps into thriving mini-communities has run into deep trouble. Offering CEO's the opportunity to switch-off intra-corp aggression and thereby thwart the efforts of awoxers, CCP no doubt hoped to increase the enthusiasm of new players for the Highsec-Corp experience, and thereby fill their coffers to overflowing.

O dear.

In chillingly precise fashion, James 315 charts the downfall of 'The Great Idea', and charitably offers CCP some pointers as to where they may have miscalculated.

The original article can be accessed via the MinerBumping website, under the title which heads this post.

The Audio Version, for those inclined to hear it, can be accessed using the link below:

Awox Nerf Fails to Boost EVE Numbers


Peace and Prosperity.

www.minerbumping.com

Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#2 - 2015-07-20 12:34:29 UTC
cant be bothered listening to his voice nor can i be bothered taking the click-bait, cant you just paste the article here? not really hard to copy and paste...

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#3 - 2015-07-20 12:45:55 UTC
It is terribly surprising that removing a type of gameplay from the game in order to accomplish the all important goal of making highsec safer for carebears has failed to improve the game.

I'm sure we just need to remove more of the interesting things and emergent situations that can happen in highsec. Perhaps when nothing happens in highsec other than AFK mining and solo mission running then the new players will be retained. Nothing helps retention like monotony and predictability.
Aoife Fraoch
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2015-07-20 12:58:03 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
It is terribly surprising that removing a type of gameplay from the game in order to accomplish the all important goal of making highsec safer for carebears has failed to improve the game.

I'm sure we just need to remove more of the interesting things and emergent situations that can happen in highsec. Perhaps when nothing happens in highsec other than AFK mining and solo mission running then the new players will be retained. Nothing helps retention like monotony and predictability.


Because that business plan worked so well for all those games that were going to kill WoW...
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#5 - 2015-07-20 13:06:07 UTC
I'm sure that once we make it impossible to attack another player in highsec unless they have their PVP flag toggled to on EVE will be able to achieve a similar level of popularity and sustainability to SWTOR or ESO.
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-07-20 13:37:26 UTC
When this patch happened i asked "Why the double standard in corp search? You can 'exclude corps with friendly fore enabled' but not 'exclude corps from search with 'FF-Disabled'"

Dev actually responded and said that it wasnt intentional and wasnt ment to suggest one is better than other.


Then silence
No update.



Seriously why cant there be a freaking checkbox in corp search"exclude corps with FF Disabled"????
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#7 - 2015-07-20 13:47:25 UTC
I use that check box when looking for people to wardec. If someone has friemdly fire disabled they're pretty much going to be 100% unable to offer any resistance.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#8 - 2015-07-20 13:53:38 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
I use that check box when looking for people to wardec. If someone has friemdly fire disabled they're pretty much going to be 100% unable to offer any resistance.


how do you mean?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Valkin Mordirc
#9 - 2015-07-20 14:03:08 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
I use that check box when looking for people to wardec. If someone has friemdly fire disabled they're pretty much going to be 100% unable to offer any resistance.


how do you mean?



That Highsec corps that do not allowed FF, will be inherently weaker than those who do, Variables aside. He would be generally correct.

Its not the fact that they don't allow it that makes them weak though. It's the mentality.


My opinion anyways 
#DeleteTheWeak
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#10 - 2015-07-20 14:12:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
So I use the corp advertisement search function to look for people to declare war on. If a corp has Area of Operation: highsec and friendly fire set to illegal then it's a pretty clear indicator that they aren't going to be able to defend themselves.

Relying on a mechanical switch to make you safe, rather than using good recruitment practices and not presenting an attractive target expresses how little you trust your members and how little effort you're willing to put in to protecting them and also makes it apparent that you have things worth messing with.

It's basically a "I can't protect myself, if you shoot at me I won't shoot back." Flag.

Edit: like Valkin said, it indicates a mentality. The type of people who are unwilling to lift a finger in defense of themselves or their corpmates.
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-07-20 14:25:53 UTC
Quote:
Quote:

Shailagh wrote:
It says in the corp search, you can filter out all the evil FF-ON corps.
Will you be giving us the option to filter out the risk-adverse FF-OFF corps? And only search for FF Enabled corps??
If not, why the disparity?

This was simply done in the same way that the current 'Exclude Corporations in Alliances' checkbox works, and was not intentionally meant to only provide one option and not the other. I agree with you on this, it might be best to give both options, and Ill see if the team agrees and if its feasible for Tiamat.
CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0


And for over half a year no reply. Guess it wasnt feasible for Tiamat release or ever since lol
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#12 - 2015-07-20 14:28:44 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
So I use the corp advertisement search function to look for people to declare war on. If a corp has Area of Operation: highsec and friendly fire set to illegal then it's a pretty clear indicator that they aren't going to be able to defend themselves.

Relying on a mechanical switch to make you safe, rather than using good recruitment practices and not presenting an attractive target expresses how little you trust your members and how little effort you're willing to put in to protecting them and also makes it apparent that you have things worth messing with.

It's basically a "I can't protect myself, if you shoot at me I won't shoot back." Flag.

Edit: like Valkin said, it indicates a mentality. The type of people who are unwilling to lift a finger in defense of themselves or their corpmates.


thanks for clearing that up, i was just curious, my last corp had friendly fire set to no but they in no way would refuse a fight, thats why i wondered, im not actually sure why they had it set especially with the reputation they have What?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#13 - 2015-07-20 15:28:30 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
It is terribly surprising that removing a type of gameplay from the game in order to accomplish the all important goal of making highsec safer for carebears has failed to improve the game.

I'm sure we just need to remove more of the interesting things and emergent situations that can happen in highsec. Perhaps when nothing happens in highsec other than AFK mining and solo mission running then the new players will be retained. Nothing helps retention like monotony and predictability.



I thought this was sarcasm until I saw you kb. Now I'm not sure.

Are you really that awesome or really that risk averse? 1 year of leet HS pvp w/out a loss. Amazing.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#14 - 2015-07-20 15:33:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
Lowsec pirate groups absolutely will refuse a potential fight with a highsec pvp group. Aside from the fact that most lowsec pirate folks can't even enter highsec, the ones that do generally view it as "non-pvp space" and are usually only in highsec to buy stuff or maybe do some carebearing and subsequently harbor a significant aversion to fighting there.

Generally speaking though, you don't declare war on lowsec corps. If you wanted to shoot people who are in lowsec you'd be in lowsec, not in highsec declaring wars.

Edit because the subject of me is apparently so important: Yes, I am extremely difficult to kill. My corporation was designed from its inception to be as frustrating as possible to fight against and to not yield lossmails. You'll also notice virtually none of my losses are to war targets. Most of them are due to me sitting suspect flagged 50km off a gate.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#15 - 2015-07-20 15:36:28 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
So I use the corp advertisement search function to look for people to declare war on. If a corp has Area of Operation: highsec and friendly fire set to illegal then it's a pretty clear indicator that they aren't going to be able to defend themselves.

Relying on a mechanical switch to make you safe, rather than using good recruitment practices and not presenting an attractive target expresses how little you trust your members and how little effort you're willing to put in to protecting them and also makes it apparent that you have things worth messing with.

It's basically a "I can't protect myself, if you shoot at me I won't shoot back." Flag.

Edit: like Valkin said, it indicates a mentality. The type of people who are unwilling to lift a finger in defense of themselves or their corpmates.



I'm somewhat astonished you pretty much came right out and said you specifically target the defensless when you war dec. On one hand I admire your honesty, on the other I just don't understand how you do it.

You're that teenager that can play tic tac toe against 5 year olds and feel good about winning every day for what... several years??
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#16 - 2015-07-20 16:07:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
I'm an adult man in his mid twenties playing EVE online with and against other adults of similar age, actually.

With regards to who you declare war on there are two general approaches you can go with. You can target people who look like they'll try and shoot back and potentially there may be an interesting fight, and you can target people who will run around like headless chickens and die in mission ships and mining barges. Both are fine, but the later is much more common.

I'm really not sure why you're so upset that I win at highsec PVP a lot. If it makes you that butthurt that i haven't lost a ship for a while you're welcome to come and try blowing me up, I live in Nourvukaiken. I somehow doubt you're up to that though.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#17 - 2015-07-20 16:49:47 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
I'm an adult man in his mid twenties playing EVE online with and against other adults of similar age, actually.

With regards to who you declare war on there are two general approaches you can go with. You can target people who look like they'll try and shoot back and potentially there may be an interesting fight, and you can target people who will run around like headless chickens and die in mission ships and mining barges. Both are fine, but the later is much more common.

I'm really not sure why you're so upset that I win at highsec PVP a lot. If it makes you that butthurt that i haven't lost a ship for a while you're welcome to come and try blowing me up, I live in Nourvukaiken. I somehow doubt you're up to that though.



I'll do a 1v1 thunderdome with you. You pick the ship class and any rules you feel you need. Then we'll work out a time and do it.

My only rule is we fleet up so there are no boosting descrepancies. Just 2 folks in fleet - me and you.
Valkin Mordirc
#18 - 2015-07-20 17:00:38 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
I'm an adult man in his mid twenties playing EVE online with and against other adults of similar age, actually.

With regards to who you declare war on there are two general approaches you can go with. You can target people who look like they'll try and shoot back and potentially there may be an interesting fight, and you can target people who will run around like headless chickens and die in mission ships and mining barges. Both are fine, but the later is much more common.

I'm really not sure why you're so upset that I win at highsec PVP a lot. If it makes you that butthurt that i haven't lost a ship for a while you're welcome to come and try blowing me up, I live in Nourvukaiken. I somehow doubt you're up to that though.



I'll do a 1v1 thunderdome with you. You pick the ship class and any rules you feel you need. Then we'll work out a time and do it.

My only rule is we fleet up so there are no boosting descrepancies. Just 2 folks in fleet - me and you.



I think Vimsy would need Yuller there to be eh.


Moral support.


Wouldn't really feel like BAW without him thrown every insult under the sun. XD
#DeleteTheWeak
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#19 - 2015-07-20 17:25:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I'll do a 1v1 thunderdome with you. You pick the ship class and any rules you feel you need. Then we'll work out a time and do it.

My only rule is we fleet up so there are no boosting descrepancies. Just 2 folks in fleet - me and you.

Considering that you are the one who is upset with me for not dying I would agree to this why?

And you're stupid for proposing it, you realize I'd cheat, right?
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#20 - 2015-07-20 17:29:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
So I use the corp advertisement search function to look for people to declare war on. If a corp has Area of Operation: highsec and friendly fire set to illegal then it's a pretty clear indicator that they aren't going to be able to defend themselves.

Relying on a mechanical switch to make you safe, rather than using good recruitment practices and not presenting an attractive target expresses how little you trust your members and how little effort you're willing to put in to protecting them and also makes it apparent that you have things worth messing with.

It's basically a "I can't protect myself, if you shoot at me I won't shoot back." Flag.

Edit: like Valkin said, it indicates a mentality. The type of people who are unwilling to lift a finger in defense of themselves or their corpmates.



I'm somewhat astonished you pretty much came right out and said you specifically target the defensless when you war dec. On one hand I admire your honesty, on the other I just don't understand how you do it.

You're that teenager that can play tic tac toe against 5 year olds and feel good about winning every day for what... several years??


"LoL"wars to keep everyone entertain when you aren't actively hunting contacted targets/targets are hiding are pretty common, all the high sec mercenary have them and they are just as vimsy described essentially just punching bags.

Sometimes something magical happens though and they form up, fight back and get a taste for it, "Eve Refinery" was one of ours and afterwards they found they quite liked it, they're now with brave.

Sometimes only one or two will stand and fight , these guys can often actually take to the work and make good recruits.

Its not all clubbing baby seals, it's introducing others (at the business end of a blaster) to PvP.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
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