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The Shrinking Sandbox - Eve by numbers

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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1881 - 2015-07-08 13:24:20 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
You don't need to CTA the whole alliance to deal with one guy in a entosis fitted frigate. And if you've kept your indexes up, you've got 45 minutes to scramble a Griffin or whatever to break the entosis attempt and presumably kill the frigate.

Honestly, the whining here is passed the Chicken Little level.


Most alliance dipping their feet in SOV won't bring their index up in the first few day probably tho. If you win a system by fighting the previous owner, you will probably have trouble raising the industrial and military index with people harassing you. The first week of holding sov will probabbly be frantic as you struggle to raise your index to give yourself a buffer time to form up against any entosis event but then again, you took that system with effort so putting some in still for a bit more time to keep it in the rough starting time of your space empire isn't all that terrible.


An alliance claiming their first sov system should be at a peak of activity and motivation. All concentrated into this system.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#1882 - 2015-07-08 13:33:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Drago Shouna wrote:
The latest replies are fascinating guys, but what do they have to do with the Shrinking Sandbox?

Some of the stuff aint even implemented yet.


Fozziesov is what CCP is doing instead of preventing EVE's decay. That's what Fozziesov haves to do with the matter of EVE's shrinking population.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#1883 - 2015-07-08 13:43:54 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Dirk MacGirk makes some interesting points about Trollsov:

https://www.themittani.com/features/7-days-and-counting-stop-clock

Priceless bit:

Quote:
(...)

Attackers may be at a relative disadvantage in terms of the on-field mechanics, specifically as it relates to entosis timers. However, they have the absolute advantage when it comes to flexibility in how and when they play the game. Today? Sure. Tomorrow? Sure. The next day? Nah, it’s a work day, but just let them think we’re coming again. Keep them busy chasing shadows. Nullsec residents have one choice during their vulnerability windows: always be ready to scramble the alert fighters or be prepared to go to whack-a-mole across the constellation. Every single day, be prepared. Yeah, being a resident defender sounds great compared to the flexibility given to attackers. I sure hope you’re with a big, active alliance.

(...)


Sounds like fun, yes.

I don't see a problem with that at all.

The defenders also have significant advantages:

1. They determine the vulnerability window: both through settings and activity
2. Duality testing showed a smaller defensive force could beat a larger attacking fleet (bubbling and camping a station undock being a more useful tactic for attackers to counter that)

So it isn't a case of total flexibility for attackers, since they can only attack when the defenders say it's possible, which should be in the prime time for the defending alliance and if the defenders are smart they won't be pooling all their alts in station, but keeping some logged off in space to login when needed.

That's only a couple of things that favour defenders. There are others that exist and are used already - scouts and Intel channels to obtain early intelligence on an attacking fleet, what space they hold so they can develop plans for defence ahead of time, the ability to easily reship in station or POS and be back in the fight quickly, the use of diplomacy to have allies available to assist if needed, activity outside the vulnerability window to build up system indices, etc.

Ultimately, if defenders can't defend in their own prime time, then they don't deserve their sov. Fight for it, or lose it.

Lets not forget that there are new structures coming by the end of the year (hopefully) that are going to let you dock in them. That's the possibility of many, many stations in a system. You can't bubble them all.

Plus, we have no idea if there are structures planned that effect entosis links and the timers associated with them. Maybe the Observation Arrays could contract the entosis timers if they're friendly, or expand the vulnerable window if the enemy anchors the arrays in the attacked system. That would entail needing to hunt down these facilities and remove them.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#1884 - 2015-07-08 13:56:09 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:

Thread could have been closed ages ago, but the self centered attention whore up there keeps people hooked. If we agreed on not replying anymore, others will follow and he can do what he does best: Talking to himself. All alone. Lol

You should view it as an interesting Fozziesov test; if you aren't able to respond to every post he makes in a four hour window every day with at least as many typed words, you don't deserve to forums Blink

(and I expect that reply to be within 20 minutes of his timestamp, or its back here tomorrow to make ten for every one he does - so no reading other threads during your defending time!)
Hahahahhahaaa!!!

Brilliant.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#1885 - 2015-07-08 14:03:38 UTC
Quality of the poast should determine the reply window.

...And they all crave one thing - ISK. ¤

[WTS] ME10 / TE20 BPOs from Battleships/Cruisers to Fighters, Carriers, Triage/Siege, XL modules & Cap Components
Marsha Mallow
#1886 - 2015-07-08 14:12:23 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Many are but who wants to spend 4 hours a day in a defense fleet in case someone comes to try and mess with you.
Who says 4 hours a day should be a minimum requirement to be part of a sov alliance?

Why should I not be able to take a fleet and go look for a fight without fear our sov is going to be attacked?
What is the minimum amount of time each member has to dedicate to their alliance on a daily basis 7/365?
Where does it leave those who can't play every day. Do they not get allowed to be in a sov alliance?

See how silly your comment is yet?

We didn't spend 4 hours in home defence fleets in pre-Dominion sov. Standing fleets don't need 150 people for 4 hours. For people who like PVP outside of 2000 man lagfest abominations the 4 hour window is quite literally an invitation to come play with them when they have people online.

Or, to put this another way
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
I think that you're missing the point.

Monday -CONTENT
Thursday -CONTENT
Wednesday -CONTENT
Tuesday -CONTENT again
Friday -huh, no CONTENT
Saturday -watch porn day
Sunday -CONTENT

Rinse and repeat.... oh wait, this might be fun.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Sarayu Wyvern
The Bosena Accords
Round Table Assembly
#1887 - 2015-07-08 16:24:33 UTC
How is this thread still alive? Dear Amarrian God in Amarrian Heaven I thought this thread would have fallen off the front page over a month ago.

Alt of MidnightWyvern. (Mobius Wyvern in Dust 514)
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1888 - 2015-07-08 18:02:34 UTC
Well i think the main issue with FozzieSov is that it's kind of unbalanced between nice people and nasty people. I mean let's look at the differential bonuses here;

Nice people:
Their structures only take 60 seconds to reinforce at max indices.
They have to pay market price for Entosis links
No one avalable to actually use them anyway
Sov map starts flashing all their structures as soon as they go on a roam outside their space
Vulnerability window actually occurs when the fewest people are logged in
Requires their entire alliance strength to repel with any entosis attempt
Indexes decay at 50% per hour.

Nasty people:
Their Structures take infinite time to reinforce
Free entosis link (and free ships to mount them on)
Unlimited numbers of people available to fly entosis ships in all timezones
Can Instantly teleport their ships directly on to nice people's structures
Their structures warp themselves to a deep safe and cloak up whenever nasty people go for a roam
Indexes perma set to 5.
Vulnerability window only lasts 30 seconds and only happens when at least 500 people are in alliance chat.


Yes, it's going to be pretty tough being a Nice player after July 14th.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1889 - 2015-07-08 23:05:36 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Many are but who wants to spend 4 hours a day in a defense fleet in case someone comes to try and mess with you.
Who says 4 hours a day should be a minimum requirement to be part of a sov alliance?

Why should I not be able to take a fleet and go look for a fight without fear our sov is going to be attacked?
What is the minimum amount of time each member has to dedicate to their alliance on a daily basis 7/365?
Where does it leave those who can't play every day. Do they not get allowed to be in a sov alliance?

See how silly your comment is yet?

We didn't spend 4 hours in home defence fleets in pre-Dominion sov. Standing fleets don't need 150 people for 4 hours. For people who like PVP outside of 2000 man lagfest abominations the 4 hour window is quite literally an invitation to come play with them when they have people online.

Or, to put this another way
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
I think that you're missing the point.

Monday -CONTENT
Thursday -CONTENT
Wednesday -CONTENT
Tuesday -CONTENT again
Friday -huh, no CONTENT
Saturday -watch porn day
Sunday -CONTENT

Rinse and repeat.... oh wait, this might be fun.

No-one had to spend 4 set hours per day being online with Dominion - Sov couldn't be flipped in a short time like it can post 14/7.

Not everyone wants to belong to 2000+ man alliances - Fozziesov was meant to be designed so smaller groups could take and hold sov. If new small groups are unable to hold sov for longer than it takes the griefers to remove it, content is gonna go stale pretty quick.
There is already many smaller groups getting as many blues as they can prior to 14/7, do we really need multiple blue donuts that are too big to fight each other all over sov - again?
Yes an announced change to Capital systems does allow smaller groups to at least establish sov but it also opens the door to any group who don't care about owning sov to come grief you to hell and back.

Small gang pvp in nul right now is in a pretty good place - As long as you don't try to hold sov as well it should stay that way.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#1890 - 2015-07-09 02:05:29 UTC
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/summer-of-sov-nullsec-pve-and-upgrades/

Reddit is all abuzz over this and very positive as a general feeling s out the comments in the r/eve thread.

Some good changes and more good content to come down over the next few months.
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#1891 - 2015-07-09 04:25:08 UTC
I remember CTA fleets lasting from 21 PM to 4 AM around the 2005-2007 time period.

Regularly.

HTFU

...And they all crave one thing - ISK. ¤

[WTS] ME10 / TE20 BPOs from Battleships/Cruisers to Fighters, Carriers, Triage/Siege, XL modules & Cap Components
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#1892 - 2015-07-09 06:39:14 UTC
Now that they require the TCU to be at a planet, that really destroyed my plans of a death star POS next to the TCU for a single naff system for Second-Dawn. Oh well, I guess CCP did not want the little men in null...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#1893 - 2015-07-09 06:55:11 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/summer-of-sov-nullsec-pve-and-upgrades/

Reddit is all abuzz over this and very positive as a general feeling s out the comments in the r/eve thread.

Some good changes and more good content to come down over the next few months.


More nullsec PvE is jsut what the game needs, oh yes. Because a) everybody lives in nullsec and b) highsec PvE is goddam fine. Bear

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Ima GoodGirl
Aria Shi's Wasted ISK
#1894 - 2015-07-09 07:06:21 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/summer-of-sov-nullsec-pve-and-upgrades/

Reddit is all abuzz over this and very positive as a general feeling s out the comments in the r/eve thread.

Some good changes and more good content to come down over the next few months.


More nullsec PvE is jsut what the game needs, oh yes. Because a) everybody lives in nullsec and b) highsec PvE is goddam fine. Bear

I agree with you sentiment here.

What is this PvE rubbish? No need for any changes to that.

CCP just focus on PvP please.

Even Ishtanchuk doesn't want these changes that improve PvE. That says volumes. When even a PvEer doesn't appreciate changes that improve PvE, you know you've gone the wrong way.

Scrap it all. We just need more PvP development.
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1895 - 2015-07-09 07:53:33 UTC  |  Edited by: La Rynx
Ima GoodGirl wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/summer-of-sov-nullsec-pve-and-upgrades/

Reddit is all abuzz over this and very positive as a general feeling s out the comments in the r/eve thread.

Some good changes and more good content to come down over the next few months.


More nullsec PvE is jsut what the game needs, oh yes. Because a) everybody lives in nullsec and b) highsec PvE is goddam fine. Bear

I agree with you sentiment here.

What is this PvE rubbish? No need for any changes to that.

CCP just focus on PvP please.

Even Ishtanchuk doesn't want these changes that improve PvE. That says volumes. When even a PvEer doesn't appreciate changes that improve PvE, you know you've gone the wrong way.

Scrap it all. We just need more PvP development.


Heavy denial of the wannabees...
Already loads of ppl do PVE Stuff in EvE!
Well, who would expect insights of the clueless?

EvE has already the reputation of being the most evil, darkest pvp game. And do PvP players flock in in the millions?
No!

You want PvP?
Just undock and look for opponents. Its not CCps Job to do so.

Not so friendly reminder for the clueless:
Its not important what you want, you the people already playing eve.
Its about getting more ppl to play eve.

Its not "just"!
If it would be easy we would have lots of succesful MMOs.
EvE is not growing as it is now, so it has to change...

Yeah well...
remember that EvE player joke about changei repeat again and again?
Do you believe i think it is funny?

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Ima GoodGirl
Aria Shi's Wasted ISK
#1896 - 2015-07-09 08:16:56 UTC
La Rynx wrote:
Ima GoodGirl wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/summer-of-sov-nullsec-pve-and-upgrades/

Reddit is all abuzz over this and very positive as a general feeling s out the comments in the r/eve thread.

Some good changes and more good content to come down over the next few months.


More nullsec PvE is jsut what the game needs, oh yes. Because a) everybody lives in nullsec and b) highsec PvE is goddam fine. Bear

I agree with you sentiment here.

What is this PvE rubbish? No need for any changes to that.

CCP just focus on PvP please.

Even Ishtanchuk doesn't want these changes that improve PvE. That says volumes. When even a PvEer doesn't appreciate changes that improve PvE, you know you've gone the wrong way.

Scrap it all. We just need more PvP development.


Heavy denial of the wannabees...
Already loads of ppl do PVE Stuff in EvE!
Well, who would expect insights of the clueless?

EvE has already the reputation of being the most evil, darkest pvp game. And do PvP players flock in in the millions?
No!

You want PvP?
Just undock and look for opponents. Its not CCps Job to do so.

Not so friendly reminder for the clueless:
Its not important what you want, you the people already playing eve.
Its about getting more ppl to play eve.

Its not "just"!
If it would be easy we would have lots of succesful MMOs.
EvE is not growing as it is now, so it has to change...

Yeah well...
remember that EvE player joke about changei repeat again and again?
Do you believe i think it is funny?


https://cdn-webimages.wimages.net/0515d8d9fbb1fc823484339b2dc1e0e56c1b49-wm.jpg
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1897 - 2015-07-09 08:29:48 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/summer-of-sov-nullsec-pve-and-upgrades/

Reddit is all abuzz over this and very positive as a general feeling s out the comments in the r/eve thread.

Some good changes and more good content to come down over the next few months.


More nullsec PvE is jsut what the game needs, oh yes. Because a) everybody lives in nullsec and b) highsec PvE is goddam fine. Bear

What? You wanted more PvE and you're still not happy. Lol

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1898 - 2015-07-10 02:13:18 UTC
I can´t understand why people put PvP and PvE against each others, both should be made as pleasant as possible.

I´m sure there would be some more variation posible in PvE too, with so little effort that it would not hurt developing PvP.
Vlad Draculesti
M4gnum P.I.
#1899 - 2015-07-10 06:30:55 UTC
The changes they've just made to the game are meant to help break up the big power structures by making it incredibly difficult for them to hold empty space - and only permitting renters in for a fee, which is what they are currently doing.

Since it's going to be a lot harder for them to hold such vast areas of space - new corporations will be able to move into 0.0 and take space with ease. If a lot do it - there's going to be too many targets for the big groups to focus on at once. And even then - if they remove the sov claim from the newcomers they'd be in for a long pos grind session to clean out the space properly.

Persistence from the newcomers would eventually wear them down (because we all know how fun pos grinding is) and how these big alliances lack the numbers to fully control all of the space they currently own - they'd need to rethink their tactics and stance on the issue lest they start losing member activity due to the boring grindfest. Especially if the newcomers blueball them out of fights and reclaim sov after they have moved on in a persistent fashion.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1900 - 2015-07-10 08:28:55 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/summer-of-sov-nullsec-pve-and-upgrades/

Reddit is all abuzz over this and very positive as a general feeling s out the comments in the r/eve thread.

Some good changes and more good content to come down over the next few months.


More nullsec PvE is jsut what the game needs, oh yes. Because a) everybody lives in nullsec and b) highsec PvE is goddam fine. Bear

What? You wanted more PvE and you're still not happy. Lol


In Ishtanchuk's view of things, anything that CCp does that isn't explicitly directed to hi-sec is, at best, a waste of valuable resources; at worst, actively harmful.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016