Player Features and Ideas Discussion

After reading a good part of the post , i'm fairly sure CCP need to remove the sentry bonus from the hull.The immediate application of the DPS combined with the range,damage and tracking selection on top of a 25 % damage bonus is just too much to be balanced in my opinion.
A speed bonus to medium and heavy drone would probably give something nice to the hull without making it OP.

On the pest subject it s nice to see a dps increase for this hull, i m just disappointed the TFI doesn't get the bonus too ,CCP if you do the job make it right from the beginning.

Honestly nerfing everything is better than a power creep.

Again :
Slot change: why not. Nice idea.
Pgen-nerf: stupid if you want armor tanked ishtars. But you can adapt (no pgen for turrets though)
Speed nerf: ridiculous. Make the slowest cruiser even slower. Especially bad if you armor tank it.

Tempel buffs: no idea. I dont know the BS problems enough for a statement.

I would have far preferred that you put the Tempest changes into it's own dedicated thread.

I feel that this very important change is getting lost in the whirlwind (see what I did there?) of the Ishtar.

That being said....

The Tempest has lacked any real, I dunno, "Something" (pssshhhhh maybe ). It was a double damage bonused battleship that did relatively little damage.

It doesn't really have a role as it sits in the "versatility" area however it is still seen to be a little bit poor.

This buff to 7.5% RoF bonus pushes the Tempest into a real damage dealer (if you gank it out with missile launchers too). It gives the ship 12 effective turrets. That is pretty impressive however I still feel that this ship and the fleet issue version are a little lackluster.

Personally, with the Tempest being an Attack Battleship, I feel an application bonus would be more fitting. If the straight 5% damage bonus was dropped for a 7.5% tracking bonus the Tempest would then slot nicely into the attack BS role. it would then still retain 9.6 effective turrets with a 7.5% RoF bonus (only 0.4 less than current Tempest) and be able to really apply that damage whilst taking advantage of it's inherent speed advantage over other ships.

If the Tempest was felt to still be too weak, buffing the RoF bonus to 10% would push it back out to 12 effective turrets (currently proposed) which leaves options open for future balance if required.

Now the Tempest Fleet Issue could be differentiated from the standard issue pest by giving it 8 turret slots, a 7.5% tracking bonus and a 5% damage bonus (not RoF) giving the ship 10 effective turrets. This would place the Tempest as the absolute premier Alpha boat in the game giving it a real role, especially in the "Fleet" role which is in it's name!

This way we would have two quite different ships cut from the same cloth. The Tempest being the true "Attack" battleship and the Tempest Fleet Issue being the true "Strike" or "Fleet" battleship. Also, neither battleship in this design steps on any of the toes of any other AC battleship or ABC. As the Fleet Pest would hold the Armour Fleet role and the Maelstrom would hold the Shield Fleet role.

What do you think?

EDIT:

A Tempest Fleet Issue with 8 turret slots and a 5% per level damage bonus and a 7.5% per level tracking bonus would look like this:

[Tempest Fleet Issue, Fleet Issue Alpha Doctrine]
Damage Control II
1600mm Steel Plates II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Reactor Control Unit II

500MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Large Micro Jump Drive
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script

1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Depleted Uranium L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Depleted Uranium L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Depleted Uranium L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Depleted Uranium L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Depleted Uranium L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Depleted Uranium L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Depleted Uranium L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Depleted Uranium L

Large Ancillary Current Router II
Large Trimark Armor Pump II
Large Anti-Explosive Pump II

This above fit, before implants, fleet and link bonuses has these stats:

124k eHP
148km targeting range
380 dps (8910 volley damage) at 78km + 72km falloff - RF Depleted Uranium (+20% tracking)
570 dps (13370 volley damage) at 39km + 72km falloff - RF EMP


This ship would be a fantastic armour fleet doctrine battleship and you don't even need to change the PG/CPU of the ship as the above fits with current stats. I feel it looks extremely well rounded and balanced.

It's true. Sorry, CCP, you guys are completely missing the problem. I'd say a better solution is to just cut off 25mbit/sec off its bandwidth because come on, the Dominix needs a chance to compete, but one way or another its sentry DPS needs to come down.

Drone damage amplifiers were in-line with other damage-boosting modules. Nerfing them is the wrong move, a better move is to nerf drone damage. Drone ships apply DPS so much more easily that they should score lower DPS numbers than most turret ships. A good way to balance drone DPS is to compare it with weapons that apply really well. A good example: autocannons and drones both have variable damage types and can hit targets easily with their great tracking. The biggest difference between them is drones have way more range, therefore drones should do less DPS than autocannons. Bam, fixed.

Lastly.....I want a Tempest now.
I would have said that giving it a 7th turret hardpoint was the right fix, but this gives it 1.2 more effective turrets without costing the powergrid and it still leaves the extra utility high available. Want my mathematically consistent opinion? 7% rate of fire bonus is plenty, even 6.5% will un-marginalize it. But go ahead and leave it at 7.5%, my Tempest and I won't complain.

One final point on the Tempest, and this goes for all ships with damage and rate of fire (except dreadnoughts): CCP, you guys seem to be afraid to give these ships a proper amount of weapon hardpoints, as if you see that high DPS number it reaches and you're afraid its sheer DPS will make it out-class other ships. Well it's supposed to get higher DPS than the competition, because they all have more range or tracking, or maybe more defenses. If damage and rate of fire is overpowered on the same number of weapon hardpoints as all the other ships, then the problem lies in the balance of the bonuses themselves-but I don't think there is a problem here at all.

CCP invalidated that argument some time ago with the 3 precedents they have already set on this particular subject - I draw your attention to the Rattlesnake, Gila and Worm.

You are nerfing ALL drone boat just for a fix on one Ship ? That's silly.

Rise,
just a perception.
Cruiser
Vexor: 75 Mbps
Battlecruiser:
Myrmidon: 100 Mbps

Command ship:
Eos: 125 Mbps - The training time it takes to get in this ship proves its worth

Cruiser sized drone Talos's:
Ishtar: 125Mbps
VNI: 125Mbps

The last 2 are teir 3 battlecruisers.. cruiser sized with faction/T2 resists and speed.. and nothing counters them unless you are fast enough to get in under their guns.. than they swap to medium drones and continue to eat your face.

My suggestion? cut their bandwidth to 100. why are they flying a full flight of heavy / sentries when there only 3 T1's and 1 or 2 faction BS's that can?

They dominate in almost every class, and don't worry there's plenty of room for more nerfs too.