These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

The Shrinking Sandbox - Eve by numbers

First post First post First post
Author
Taniel Rah
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1701 - 2015-06-29 03:25:51 UTC

So I decided to play Eve few days ago, been a while. Then i started to think about what i need to do when i logged in.
I was going to login and do some faction warfare.

So login. Outfit a ship. Fly around until i could get a fight. Maybe do some missions.

At that point just closed eve and when to play PS2.

Cancelled subscription on my accounts.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1702 - 2015-06-29 03:50:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Sov, is getting a lot of resources put into it, just not in the right balance. Eve is supposed to be a sandbox (tactics, unknowns, strategy) but when it comes to sov, it is being redesigned and pretty much resembles, a one size fits all rack of tracksuits. I'm actually sorry I joined Duality for the "testing" of the new mechanics, as it confirmed my worst thoughts about Fozziesov.

I stand by my original point: Sov is a lost cause. And Fozziesov is going to be an unmitigated disaster. But most of the devs are so isolated in their own little bubbles they can't see the forrest for the trees.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Commander Spurty
#1703 - 2015-06-29 06:08:19 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I stand by my original point: Sov is a lost cause. And Fozziesov is going to be an unmitigated disaster. But most of the devs are so isolated in their own little bubbles they can't see the forrest for the trees.


Gosh, hope so!

So they can 'tweak it'.

Unlike the current sov, which they threw in the towel 7 years ago.


There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1704 - 2015-06-29 08:14:11 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Sov, is getting a lot of resources put into it, just not in the right balance. Eve is supposed to be a sandbox (tactics, unknowns, strategy) but when it comes to sov, it is being redesigned and pretty much resembles, a one size fits all rack of tracksuits. I'm actually sorry I joined Duality for the "testing" of the new mechanics, as it confirmed my worst thoughts about Fozziesov.

I stand by my original point: Sov is a lost cause. And Fozziesov is going to be an unmitigated disaster. But most of the devs are so isolated in their own little bubbles they can't see the forrest for the trees.


If sov is already a "lost cause", how can fozziesov be "an unmitigated disaster"?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1705 - 2015-06-29 09:25:18 UTC  |  Edited by: 0bama Barack Hussein
Malcanis wrote:


If sov is already a "lost cause", how can fozziesov be "an unmitigated disaster"?


You haven´t played Factional Warfare for even few months orbiting 10/15/20 minutes timers, I assume?

It gets boring pretty quick. Ok I can leave my char in FW orbit afk timers in cheapest possible frig and make isk with my laptop while I play ED on my desktop, but I guess that is not the point of FW (or should be point of new sov).

Now make it 40 minutes, and take away all the LP and isk out of it, maybe even with less fights (pretty certain some people will just wait enemy to leave and then roll back timers, or run other timers in other place/systems)...
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1706 - 2015-06-29 09:35:49 UTC
I've played dominion sov warfare for 5 years. You don't get to tell me anything is boring.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1707 - 2015-06-29 10:25:21 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
I've played dominion sov warfare for 5 years. You don't get to tell me anything is boring.

You think what you've been doing for the last 5 years was boring - Your in for a shock.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#1708 - 2015-06-29 11:15:22 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Shock, horror, HEADLIES in all CAPS! It's the only way to be sure.

July is just around the corner, just two weeks.

Just two weeks and I'll be a trillionaire. Smile

Just keeeding. Amusing thread, really - its whole premise is based around a subjective opinion of one pilot at best. The criticism surrounding non-EVE projects, essentially, may be valid, though I can not judge - wasn't here!

Malcanis wrote:

i) CCP hit us with a giant meteor - a set of game changes so overwhelming that nearly all the accumulated doctrines, assets, knowledge and skill becomes useless. Basically they'd have to change EVE into EVE II, but you could interpret fozziesov as an attempt to break up the 0.0 meta in this way.


A most excellent analogy. Blink

/me is Evolving


Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Svenja Timofeyeva wrote:
Lim Yoona wrote:
Friday night US Prime = 19,000 online Oops
When that in relevant EVE time? If everyone understood we all share one time, no one would ever need to convert around anymore.


EVE's prime time it's around 18:00-19:00 on sundays, when night Russian, evening European and noon American meet.


It is also displaced around half an hour further on the Weekend.

EVE is the most active around the end of Autumn and during the Winter - It is too cold for Russians to be outside, so they play EVE. P

J/k J/k
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#1709 - 2015-06-29 13:43:35 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
EVE is 12 years old now. As far as MMOs are concerned, the community is sailing through uncharted waters, because any other active MMO of comparable age is basically PvE. Back in EVE's dim, distant pre-cambrian era, any batshit insane organisational model and leadership could find itself a niche in the game's ecology. Now the game is densely populated with people who can

(1) Fly just about any ship with any weapon
(2) Have seen what happens when those batshit orgs and dumbkopf leaders run things
(3) Join orgs that are very well co-ordinated and run by people who know what the **** they're doing.

Natural result: most of EVE's ecological niches are filled with damb great tyrannosaurs, and the ones that aren't are infested with velociraptors. No room for small furry creatures to emerge in the daylight. Meaning that any new entrants into the environment are going to have to evolve right through 12 years of learning and progress before they're going to be competitive. There only only two general classes of outcomes to this situation:

i) CCP hit us with a giant meteor - a set of game changes so overwhelming that nearly all the accumulated doctrines, assets, knowledge and skill becomes useless. Basically they'd have to change EVE into EVE II, but you could interpret fozziesov as an attempt to break up the 0.0 meta in this way.

ii) The only hope for any substantial change on the map comes from when an existing organisation dies and the component parts bud off to form one of more new entities. hopefully hoovering up some starry-eyed newbies while they do so.

Class (i) outcomes naturally alienate a lot of whiny entitled veteran players

Class (ii) outcomes naturally alienate a lot of whiny entitled new players

CCP meet Rock and his friend Hard Place. You'll be spending the rest of EVE's existence in the company of these two.


Why does this post make me want to see Jurassic Park? Big smile
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#1710 - 2015-06-29 13:44:50 UTC
TMC & Ripard Teg on the matter:

https://www.themittani.com/news/eve-waiting-look-login-numbers

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3bf0ro/eves_loggedin_player_numbers/

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#1711 - 2015-06-29 13:59:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Shiloh Templeton
Cipher Jones wrote:
And that trend started right after "the largest battle online ever" and the losing side said "**** this" and quit.
That's what I see as a big problem in Eve -- winning in SOV null mainly involves crushing your opponents will to log in. After the alliance is destroyed, Eve loses big in the number of people playing the game.
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#1712 - 2015-06-29 14:07:42 UTC
The title of this thread is "The Shrinking Sandbox", but the sandbox isn't really shrinking - just the number of players in the sandbox. If the number dwindle further will we get to the point to where is seems like New Eden is empty while you're flying around? It seems like that would further decrease the player base.

What if the size of New Eden expanded or contracted based on player numbers for the month? Maybe through the allocation of resources to encourage consolidation rather than blocking off space?
Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1713 - 2015-06-29 14:55:30 UTC
In most other games. The game ends once there is a winner.

Lets face it. Goons "won" the nullsec game long ago, the game is effectively over.

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1714 - 2015-06-29 16:35:48 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
EVE is 12 years old now. As far as MMOs are concerned, the community is sailing through uncharted waters, because any other active MMO of comparable age is basically PvE. Back in EVE's dim, distant pre-cambrian era, any batshit insane organisational model and leadership could find itself a niche in the game's ecology. Now the game is densely populated with people who can

(1) Fly just about any ship with any weapon
(2) Have seen what happens when those batshit orgs and dumbkopf leaders run things
(3) Join orgs that are very well co-ordinated and run by people who know what the **** they're doing.

Natural result: most of EVE's ecological niches are filled with damb great tyrannosaurs, and the ones that aren't are infested with velociraptors. No room for small furry creatures to emerge in the daylight. Meaning that any new entrants into the environment are going to have to evolve right through 12 years of learning and progress before they're going to be competitive. There only only two general classes of outcomes to this situation:

i) CCP hit us with a giant meteor - a set of game changes so overwhelming that nearly all the accumulated doctrines, assets, knowledge and skill becomes useless. Basically they'd have to change EVE into EVE II, but you could interpret fozziesov as an attempt to break up the 0.0 meta in this way.

ii) The only hope for any substantial change on the map comes from when an existing organisation dies and the component parts bud off to form one of more new entities. hopefully hoovering up some starry-eyed newbies while they do so.

Class (i) outcomes naturally alienate a lot of whiny entitled veteran players

Class (ii) outcomes naturally alienate a lot of whiny entitled new players

CCP meet Rock and his friend Hard Place. You'll be spending the rest of EVE's existence in the company of these two.


Why does this post make me want to see Jurassic Park? Big smile



Because dinosaurs are awesome!

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1715 - 2015-06-29 16:36:45 UTC
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
The title of this thread is "The Shrinking Sandbox", but the sandbox isn't really shrinking - just the number of players in the sandbox. If the number dwindle further will we get to the point to where is seems like New Eden is empty while you're flying around? It seems like that would further decrease the player base.

What if the size of New Eden expanded or contracted based on player numbers for the month? Maybe through the allocation of resources to encourage consolidation rather than blocking off space?


The numbers have shrunk to being no more than 20% higher than when I started EVE and loved it.


Just saying.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1716 - 2015-06-29 16:37:41 UTC
People were saying that EVE was dying back then too. I was kind of nervous about wasting £37.99 on a 3 month sub.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#1717 - 2015-06-29 17:30:29 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
People were saying that EVE was dying back then too. I was kind of nervous about wasting £37.99 on a 3 month sub.


Same here, I started playing in June of 2007 and the guy that introduced me to the game would always say (when talking about plans for his character) "well, in plan on doing X if EVE is still going next year" lol.

All "EVE is dying" talk is just the video game manifestation of real world Doomsday Anxiety. Now when i post this quote, most of you will know instantly who I thought about when I read it. Not trying to pick on the dude, but it's the truth lol:
Quote:
This “Terror Management Theory” sprouts from psychologist Ernest Becker’s Pulitzer-winning “The Denial of Death,” which posits that civilization is humanity’s answer to the threat of impending mortality.

Greenberg, one of the theory’s founders, whose birthday happens to fall on December 21st, explains that humans, like other animals, have a basic survival mechanism wired into us; yet unlike other animals, we are aware of our eventual death. To cope, we devise elaborate cultural traditions and worldviews that lend us a sense of symbolic permanence. From this vantage point, apocalypticism might be equivalent to scratching a nagging itch caused by our looming mortality.

Armageddons tend to attract certain people – usually those who feel marginalized – as an expression of discontent and hope for a better future, says Greenberg. To religious Doomsdayers, an apocalypse would bring a paradise to Earth or their soul forever to heaven. To secular Doomsdayers, preparing for the worst is a way to distract from the anxiety and vulnerability of daily life. After all if you’re doing something, at least you’re not helpless.


....damn you PVPrs, the 62% will win one day!!! Twisted
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#1718 - 2015-06-29 17:51:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Cipher Jones
Quote:
All "EVE is dying" talk is just the video game manifestation of real world Doomsday Anxiety. Now when i post this quote, most of you will know instantly who I thought about when I read it. Not trying to pick on the dude, but it's the truth lol:


I generally like your posts...
I started on 12/31/2008. There are less players on the server today than then. I have to spend as much time running level 4's in a Marauder to earn a PLEX now as I had to spend mining in a burst then. **** that. WoW is literally more fun these days.

You can build a good case that its not going to die any time soon, but if you say it inst crippled I feel you are being intellectually dishonest.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#1719 - 2015-06-29 18:00:00 UTC
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
Lets face it. Goons "won" the nullsec game long ago, the game is effectively over.

Didn't they rename themselves to Imperium? Their leaders suddenly have breathing problems?
Did you hear about my Yamabushi VIIE? No? It's the fastest tengu this side of cluster. No bubbles can catch it.

Wait to the end of the year before you announce End of EvE.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#1720 - 2015-06-29 18:13:38 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Quote:
All "EVE is dying" talk is just the video game manifestation of real world Doomsday Anxiety. Now when i post this quote, most of you will know instantly who I thought about when I read it. Not trying to pick on the dude, but it's the truth lol:


I generally like your posts...
I started on 12/31/2008. There are less players on the server today than then. I have to spend as much time running level 4's in a Marauder to earn a PLEX now as I had to spend mining in a burst then. **** that. WoW is literally more fun these days.

You can build a good case that its not going to die any time soon, but if you say it inst crippled I feel you are being intellectually dishonest.


Feel as you like, it's not crippled, you are simply confusing your own feelings towards the game with the games general situation. You are not alone, lots of people do that, and in doing so they imagine crisis where none really exists. I love EVE, I have no interest in seeing it die or CCP go out of business, If i thought that was happening I'd be concerned...

But I've lived through too many years of "EVE is Dying" to respond to that particular wolf cry anymore.

You also have to notice that some of the same people pointing at pcu numbers and screaming "EVE is dying" are the same people who said the same things when the PCU numbers were going up. In addition to Doomsday anxiety, there is this feeling among the 'perpetually marginalized' player who never like core aspects of EVE and wanted 'change' that now is the time to seize on the fact of lower pcu numbers to manipulate CCP to develop in a direction they want and have always wanted. Raw opportunism at it's finest.

It not nearly as bad in game as forum people say. If a person never played EVE came to this forum he'd think no one is playing EVE at all. I jsut returned to null sec and i've had to turn Jabber off, all the pinging about fights and stuff is annoying.