These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

CCP! Please clarify the future plans for WiS!

First post
Author
Cailais
The Red Pill Taker Group
Exxitium
#1861 - 2011-12-30 14:39:24 UTC
Taiwanistan wrote:

i know i made the same comparison as well, but only in the most general sense, your desire for eve to have a literal representation of NORAD or CENTCOM is just misguided.


Id disagree with this view. There's an argument that fleet 'blobs' may occur as having an FC 'ead other players by the nose' is the only viable method of manoeuvring large fleets at the moment.

If a higher 'strategic' perspective was available for commanders (i.e they could view the rough dispositions and status of multiple fleets over a broad area) then that approach would be used more. I certainly know players who have resorted to using print outs of DOTLAN maps and pins to try and achieve this (with moderate success).

If you tie in the value of having a higher strategic perspective with the roll out of DUST514 additional tools for 'war planning and execution' would be a good thing - and WiS strikes me as a perfectly valid means of displaying and accessing that information.

Why use WiS? It would at least provide a geography for players to navigate by - a virtual 3D UI if you like. It could be done with additional pop up windows but that's likely to become pretty chaotic and not all that immersive.

C.
Alpheias
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1862 - 2011-12-30 14:40:33 UTC
Kuronaga wrote:
Alpheias wrote:


Suicide come to mind.


Your character looks like some moody teenager going through her emo phase while struggling to deal with her monthly period.

And here you are on the forums acting like it.

See? Roleplaying isn't that hard.

Ladie Harlot wrote:
MMORPG describes a genre or a 'type' of game. That doesn't mean I have to demean myself by actually acting like a roleplayer and crying about not enough space pants.


Yes, kind of like boardgame describes candyland. But last I checked, you were supposed to play candyland on the board, hence the name.

That are you unable to follow a simple concept that is actually described in the name itself due to your horrifically mismanaged intelligence is another issue. Luckily for you most people are also idiots, so you are allowed a comfortable domain in the world. Just not a domain that matters.


Yours look like a lonely weebo so what is your point?

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.

Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1863 - 2011-12-30 14:42:57 UTC
Taiwanistan wrote:
ranger1 your ideas are so shitstupid you must be trollin
1. info- like what? where's that ibis with 50 plexes, where's that titan 20km off a pos, where's SC stuck with no fuel?
2. boosters- so you are giong to grief the whole server by forcing them into wis for boosters? screw you
3. command center- jesus christ, have you ever been in a fleet? yeah let's have docked backseat fc-ing
don't make points, just don't


Fortunately your post is null since every one of your posts is "shitstupid".

Quit being an ass and accept the fact that other people do have other views and opinions...and you are not always right despite what you may think.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
#1864 - 2011-12-30 14:46:17 UTC
My point, dear lady, is that I am clearly a happy person with a valid point of view while you are clearly a super sensitive brat who's only recourse is to throw about baseless personal insults like a child who didn't get their sweet roll.
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#1865 - 2011-12-30 14:53:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Deviana Sevidon
Kuronaga wrote:
My point, dear lady, is that I am clearly a happy person with a valid point of view while you are clearly a super sensitive brat who's only recourse is to throw about baseless personal insults like a child who didn't get their sweet roll.


Maybe she took an arrow in her knee?

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#1866 - 2011-12-30 14:59:34 UTC
Just a little off-topic... compare how we and these thread are being ignored, with how all the whiners who coouldn't get their timing straight to get the holiday gifts are devoted a devblog and the chance to overload the already overloaded petition system with a specific cathegory to petition their gifts.

Coz', you know, would be so bad that some people were upset to don't get their holiday gifts for their own failing, wereas ignoring people concerned about WiS is par for the course. Roll
Cailais
The Red Pill Taker Group
Exxitium
#1867 - 2011-12-30 15:14:53 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Just a little off-topic... compare how we and these thread are being ignored, with how all the whiners who coouldn't get their timing straight to get the holiday gifts are devoted a devblog and the chance to overload the already overloaded petition system with a specific cathegory to petition their gifts.

Coz', you know, would be so bad that some people were upset to don't get their holiday gifts for their own failing, wereas ignoring people concerned about WiS is par for the course. Roll


To be fair to CCP their previous blogs on the topic have been pretty clear: WiS development is, to all intents and purposes - dead.

What I would like to know from CCP is if they drew a distinction between players desires for a better focus on FiS, WiS and micro transactions. My perception is that CCP came to the conclusion that the player base did not want WiS which I dont believe is entirely true.

Certainly there are players, some vehemently, opposed to anything not FiS. I would suggest that the uproar over the summer was due to the fact that WiS didn't deliver to what CCP had hyped it to previously, and came with a ludicrous micro-transaction model and came with the baggage of neglected FiS features.

If WiS matched the original proposal, ditched the MT element and incorporated actual gameplay it could be well received by a good number of players. One cant help getting the impression that CCP threw a bit of tantrum and decided that if we wouldn't accept MT then tough, we wont get anything at all.

C.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#1868 - 2011-12-30 15:48:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Cailais wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Just a little off-topic... compare how we and these thread are being ignored, with how all the whiners who coouldn't get their timing straight to get the holiday gifts are devoted a devblog and the chance to overload the already overloaded petition system with a specific cathegory to petition their gifts.

Coz', you know, would be so bad that some people were upset to don't get their holiday gifts for their own failing, wereas ignoring people concerned about WiS is par for the course. Roll


To be fair to CCP their previous blogs on the topic have been pretty clear: WiS development is, to all intents and purposes - dead.

What I would like to know from CCP is if they drew a distinction between players desires for a better focus on FiS, WiS and micro transactions. My perception is that CCP came to the conclusion that the player base did not want WiS which I dont believe is entirely true.

Certainly there are players, some vehemently, opposed to anything not FiS. I would suggest that the uproar over the summer was due to the fact that WiS didn't deliver to what CCP had hyped it to previously, and came with a ludicrous micro-transaction model and came with the baggage of neglected FiS features.

If WiS matched the original proposal, ditched the MT element and incorporated actual gameplay it could be well received by a good number of players. One cant help getting the impression that CCP threw a bit of tantrum and decided that if we wouldn't accept MT then tough, we wont get anything at all.

C.


Yeah, as I said earlier, sometimes they have an all or nothing attitude that doesn't serve them very well at times.

I have a feeling that they have choosen to adopt a policy of simply not discussing anything to do with Incarna until things have settled down, and they have a proper plan in place. They know they will be under heavy fire the moment that they announce swinging some dev resources in its direction again.

In fact, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if they simply don't make it public knowledge when development starts again and only reveal it when it is a done deal. Which, of course, would be a very risky (if somewhat understandable) approach.

They will be facing people who stubbornly insist that a pop up window is a better way of handling "anything" than Avatar based game play. People that have nailed their feet to the floor of the anti-WIS bandwagon so completely that they will actually assert that text boxes and static pictures that were common in 20th century software is preferable to the level of interaction you can get now from even the most simplistic web based game.

It is unfortunate that the release of Incarna was so badly handled that it forced what are normally very rational people (that enjoy good graphics and immersion) into taking such an irrational stance.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Taiwanistan
#1869 - 2011-12-30 16:32:18 UTC
Cailais wrote:
Taiwanistan wrote:

i know i made the same comparison as well, but only in the most general sense, your desire for eve to have a literal representation of NORAD or CENTCOM is just misguided.


Id disagree with this view. There's an argument that fleet 'blobs' may occur as having an FC 'ead other players by the nose' is the only viable method of manoeuvring large fleets at the moment.

If a higher 'strategic' perspective was available for commanders (i.e they could view the rough dispositions and status of multiple fleets over a broad area) then that approach would be used more. I certainly know players who have resorted to using print outs of DOTLAN maps and pins to try and achieve this (with moderate success).

If you tie in the value of having a higher strategic perspective with the roll out of DUST514 additional tools for 'war planning and execution' would be a good thing - and WiS strikes me as a perfectly valid means of displaying and accessing that information.

Why use WiS? It would at least provide a geography for players to navigate by - a virtual 3D UI if you like. It could be done with additional pop up windows but that's likely to become pretty chaotic and not all that immersive.

C.


how the hell is wis going to help with that? all we need is a better F10

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#1870 - 2011-12-30 17:08:16 UTC
Taiwanistan wrote:
Cailais wrote:
Taiwanistan wrote:

i know i made the same comparison as well, but only in the most general sense, your desire for eve to have a literal representation of NORAD or CENTCOM is just misguided.


Id disagree with this view. There's an argument that fleet 'blobs' may occur as having an FC 'ead other players by the nose' is the only viable method of manoeuvring large fleets at the moment.

If a higher 'strategic' perspective was available for commanders (i.e they could view the rough dispositions and status of multiple fleets over a broad area) then that approach would be used more. I certainly know players who have resorted to using print outs of DOTLAN maps and pins to try and achieve this (with moderate success).

If you tie in the value of having a higher strategic perspective with the roll out of DUST514 additional tools for 'war planning and execution' would be a good thing - and WiS strikes me as a perfectly valid means of displaying and accessing that information.

Why use WiS? It would at least provide a geography for players to navigate by - a virtual 3D UI if you like. It could be done with additional pop up windows but that's likely to become pretty chaotic and not all that immersive.

C.


how the hell is wis going to help with that? all we need is a better F10


No.

All we need is a text box listing range and ship type.

What we have is slightly better than that.

What would be preferable is something far better that makes sense.
Something that encourages engagements in multiple locations/systems simultaneously because they can be easily managed.
Something that allows tactics other than the blob.
Something that allows your scouts to give accurate reports instantly, without having to type out ship types lest they interrupt target calling on voice coms.
Something that allows multiple FC's to manage separate engagements within a larger battle in a clear, organized manner and yet still be working closely together from the same interface and presentation of information.
Something that doesn't require a quick shift to a back up FC if your main FC gets popped, assuming your back up FC is still in the fight.


View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Alaric Faelen
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#1871 - 2011-12-30 17:13:36 UTC
Ranger1, a good post- but I do have to nit-pick on one point...

EVERYTHING in Eve is just a pop up menu box. That is the first thing that really struck me when I started playing-- that Eve is really just a series of pop up menus. So much so in fact that you could all but do away with the graphics of ships in space entirely.

I don't see how avatars will change that. You will simply walk with a robotic strut to a kiosk or something which will then open a menu box.
This is exactly all that Incarna does now. You can sit on a sofa and click Agent Finder, or just do the same from the hangar screen- the result is identical.

This is my problem with FiS. Not the concept, but rather that it's just window dressing over a basic, boring mechanic. Eve is pop up menus, and all Incarna did was add ugly full body models skulking around to do what I can in a second with a mouse click on a button on the side of the screen.
This is why most people don't see any point in WiS whatsoever-- it's just a slower, ugly way to accomplish what can be done on the side of the screen with one button press. WiS isn't any deeper than that- and thus, is really pointless to most eyes. It didn't change anything but HOW you get the menu pop up box.
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1872 - 2011-12-30 17:14:59 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
(snipped...)

What would be preferable is something far better that makes sense.
Something that encourages engagements in multiple locations/systems simultaneously because they can be easily managed.
Something that allows tactics other than the blob.
Something that allows your scouts to give accurate reports instantly, without having to type out ship types lest they interrupt target calling on voice coms.
Something that allows multiple FC's to manage separate engagements within a larger battle in a clear, organized manner and yet still be working closely together from the same interface and presentation of information.
Something that doesn't require a quick shift to a back up FC if your main FC gets popped, assuming your back up FC is still in the fight.


Something that allows me to place a hidden bomb in said war room ahead of time, and then remotely detonate it, sending everyone involved to their clones while the fleet you were planning to engage pays me for the assassination hit...
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
#1873 - 2011-12-30 17:24:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuronaga
Convert WiS to a third person shooter environment with stationside combat missions and dialogue, then put in the extra crap like establishments and mini-games to support that architecture. They already said they wanted people to be able to disembark onto sleeper sites and do that kind of crap, which is basically the same thing. If that was part of the original vision, why the hell are people so obsessed with arguing over the NEX store and the garbage associated with it? It's like the anti-WiS people have so much tunnel vision on the issue they can't see anything else.


They basically just want moar ships and moar boring revamped mechanics over and over again, in a niche game that has nearly run its course. Let's face it, nullsec blob wars are always going to be time driven grinds that are basically no fun other than the fact you can take a dump in someone elses coffee. No change in sov mechanics is ever going to make the experience much better than that, and demanding that 100% of resources be poured into changing this over and over again is straight lunacy. Pure FiS people don't seem to actually want anything innovative put into their game at all, and that's pretty sad.

Why would anyone be opposed to combat areas for WiS? Shooting people in the face isn't exactly space barbie. Maybe some people are just bad at aiming and that's why they like spreadsheets online. /shrug
Taiwanistan
#1874 - 2011-12-30 17:28:01 UTC
Alaric Faelen wrote:
Ranger1, a good post- but I do have to nit-pick on one point...

EVERYTHING in Eve is just a pop up menu box. That is the first thing that really struck me when I started playing-- that Eve is really just a series of pop up menus. So much so in fact that you could all but do away with the graphics of ships in space entirely.

I don't see how avatars will change that. You will simply walk with a robotic strut to a kiosk or something which will then open a menu box.
This is exactly all that Incarna does now. You can sit on a sofa and click Agent Finder, or just do the same from the hangar screen- the result is identical.

This is my problem with FiS. Not the concept, but rather that it's just window dressing over a basic, boring mechanic. Eve is pop up menus, and all Incarna did was add ugly full body models skulking around to do what I can in a second with a mouse click on a button on the side of the screen.
This is why most people don't see any point in WiS whatsoever-- it's just a slower, ugly way to accomplish what can be done on the side of the screen with one button press. WiS isn't any deeper than that- and thus, is really pointless to most eyes. It didn't change anything but HOW you get the menu pop up box.

except dress up and o7m8 /dance

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."

Taiwanistan
#1875 - 2011-12-30 17:37:02 UTC
i really despise grown assed men who giggle and enjoy looking at an avatar receiving a virtual lap dance from a pg-13 pixel exotic dancer, alt-tabbing out when the wife walks in the room
yes you are god damn right i would rather conduct my god damn affairs ingame with right click menus and pop up menus

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#1876 - 2011-12-30 17:37:58 UTC
Alaric Faelen wrote:
Ranger1, a good post- but I do have to nit-pick on one point...

EVERYTHING in Eve is just a pop up menu box. That is the first thing that really struck me when I started playing-- that Eve is really just a series of pop up menus. So much so in fact that you could all but do away with the graphics of ships in space entirely.

I don't see how avatars will change that. You will simply walk with a robotic strut to a kiosk or something which will then open a menu box.
This is exactly all that Incarna does now. You can sit on a sofa and click Agent Finder, or just do the same from the hangar screen- the result is identical.

This is my problem with FiS. Not the concept, but rather that it's just window dressing over a basic, boring mechanic. Eve is pop up menus, and all Incarna did was add ugly full body models skulking around to do what I can in a second with a mouse click on a button on the side of the screen.
This is why most people don't see any point in WiS whatsoever-- it's just a slower, ugly way to accomplish what can be done on the side of the screen with one button press. WiS isn't any deeper than that- and thus, is really pointless to most eyes. It didn't change anything but HOW you get the menu pop up box.


Good point, however with Avatar based game play the door is opened to having much more than that. As originally outlined EVE voice was going to be closely tied with Incarna, and that connection was partially tied to the (currently very liimited) voice fonts available. Even NPC interaction becomes more engaging and believable.

Don't lose sight of the fact that all we have now is the most basic framework in place.

Even at it's most elementary level, what would you prefer... your agent verbally berates you and throws his shoe at you for failing that mission, or reading a text box that merely describes it happening?

(Overly simplistic example for illustrative purposes only disclaimer.)

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#1877 - 2011-12-30 17:43:04 UTC
Guttripper wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
(snipped...)

What would be preferable is something far better that makes sense.
Something that encourages engagements in multiple locations/systems simultaneously because they can be easily managed.
Something that allows tactics other than the blob.
Something that allows your scouts to give accurate reports instantly, without having to type out ship types lest they interrupt target calling on voice coms.
Something that allows multiple FC's to manage separate engagements within a larger battle in a clear, organized manner and yet still be working closely together from the same interface and presentation of information.
Something that doesn't require a quick shift to a back up FC if your main FC gets popped, assuming your back up FC is still in the fight.


Something that allows me to place a hidden bomb in said war room ahead of time, and then remotely detonate it, sending everyone involved to their clones while the fleet you were planning to engage pays me for the assassination hit...


While you probably meant that as a negative point, in fact that would be outstanding to many. Smile

It could be argued that this scenario is little different from having your spys identifiy the FC's ahead of time and simply calling them primary, but wouldn't this be a lot more fun!

Of course, the advantage the FCs would have is that they would only have to get from the cloning chamber back to the C&C to pick up where they left off (unless the facilities were destroyed as well), while the FC's killed in space are effectively out of the picture until they can get a ship back to the scene of the battle.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
#1878 - 2011-12-30 17:47:37 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Guttripper wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
(snipped...)

What would be preferable is something far better that makes sense.
Something that encourages engagements in multiple locations/systems simultaneously because they can be easily managed.
Something that allows tactics other than the blob.
Something that allows your scouts to give accurate reports instantly, without having to type out ship types lest they interrupt target calling on voice coms.
Something that allows multiple FC's to manage separate engagements within a larger battle in a clear, organized manner and yet still be working closely together from the same interface and presentation of information.
Something that doesn't require a quick shift to a back up FC if your main FC gets popped, assuming your back up FC is still in the fight.


Something that allows me to place a hidden bomb in said war room ahead of time, and then remotely detonate it, sending everyone involved to their clones while the fleet you were planning to engage pays me for the assassination hit...


While you probably meant that as a negative point, in fact that would be outstanding to many. Smile

It could be argued that this scenario is little different from having your spys identifiy the FC's ahead of time and simply calling them primary, but wouldn't this be a lot more fun!

Of course, the advantage the FCs would have is that they would only have to get from the cloning chamber back to the C&C to pick up where they left off (unless the facilities were destroyed as well), while the FC's killed in space are effectively out of the picture until they can get a ship back to the scene of the battle.



I'm pro WiS and this is a dumb idea tbh.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#1879 - 2011-12-30 17:55:25 UTC
Taiwanistan wrote:
i really despise grown assed men who giggle and enjoy looking at an avatar receiving a virtual lap dance from a pg-13 pixel exotic dancer, alt-tabbing out when the wife walks in the room
yes you are god damn right i would rather conduct my god damn affairs ingame with right click menus and pop up menus


And of course, you would be perfectly fine in continuing to FC from your ship (I'll assume you have been an FC). Nobody would force you to use any of this. However, once your corp mates realize that your enemy is a hell of a lot more organized than you are you might catch a little grief for refusing to use the tools available.

I'll assume from your lack of intelligent comments and having resorted to personal attacks and generic memes that have nothing to do with the conversation that you have conceded the argument. Or are you going to continue arguing that the system described that would greatly enhance fleet battles with a station based C&C, is instead useless simply because it would have a logical tie in with Incarna.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#1880 - 2011-12-30 17:56:57 UTC
Kuronaga wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Guttripper wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
(snipped...)

What would be preferable is something far better that makes sense.
Something that encourages engagements in multiple locations/systems simultaneously because they can be easily managed.
Something that allows tactics other than the blob.
Something that allows your scouts to give accurate reports instantly, without having to type out ship types lest they interrupt target calling on voice coms.
Something that allows multiple FC's to manage separate engagements within a larger battle in a clear, organized manner and yet still be working closely together from the same interface and presentation of information.
Something that doesn't require a quick shift to a back up FC if your main FC gets popped, assuming your back up FC is still in the fight.


Something that allows me to place a hidden bomb in said war room ahead of time, and then remotely detonate it, sending everyone involved to their clones while the fleet you were planning to engage pays me for the assassination hit...


While you probably meant that as a negative point, in fact that would be outstanding to many. Smile

It could be argued that this scenario is little different from having your spys identifiy the FC's ahead of time and simply calling them primary, but wouldn't this be a lot more fun!

Of course, the advantage the FCs would have is that they would only have to get from the cloning chamber back to the C&C to pick up where they left off (unless the facilities were destroyed as well), while the FC's killed in space are effectively out of the picture until they can get a ship back to the scene of the battle.



I'm pro WiS and this is a dumb idea tbh.


Of course it is, but to many the main problem with Incarna is that you can't actually kill someone in it. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.