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CCP! Please clarify the future plans for WiS!

First post
Author
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#1821 - 2011-12-30 01:37:48 UTC
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:

Dreams, dreams and hopes that will never come close to being in the game until tech to do this advances a lot more, becomes less expensive, and CCP gets a LOT smarter and richer.


FTFY


My father used to say: "wish in one hand, and crap in the other, and see which one fills up faster".


CCP is not going to address players about WIS before fanfest. And then, prepare for scant details with nothing concrete. That might change if all 6 or so of you guys crying for answers get organized and convince a lot of players to unsub, or somehow manage to create a 400+ page threadnaught in just a few days (how old is this thread?) .

What you should be doing right now is praying that DUST is a big success, because if it flops, there ain't gonna' be much left of CCP's golden goose to bail them out on another gamble on tech-expensive ambitions.


There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

Disdaine
#1822 - 2011-12-30 01:44:06 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
lol roleplayers


Cuz u're a reel spacepilot amirite?
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1823 - 2011-12-30 01:46:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Ladie Harlot
Disdaine wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
lol roleplayers


Cuz u're a reel spacepilot amirite?

No, I'm one of the people smart enough to realize we're playing a game. I don't need CCP to waste years of developer time to help me feel like a "freelance space police".

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

Disdaine
#1824 - 2011-12-30 01:53:44 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Disdaine wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
lol roleplayers


Cuz u're a reel spacepilot amirite?

No, I'm one of the people smart enough to realize we're playing a game. I don't need CCP to waste years of developer time to help me feel like a "freelance space police".


You mean the G in RPG stands for game? No wai! U pretty clevar.
Razin
The Scope
#1825 - 2011-12-30 01:57:18 UTC
Kuronaga wrote:
I heard this game mass effect was pretty cool, and you could walk around stations and shoot people and **** aliens.

Just sayin'

That game had the absolute worst 'flying in space' content of anything that came out within the last couple of decades.

Just saying.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#1826 - 2011-12-30 02:03:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Disdaine wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
lol roleplayers


Cuz u're a reel spacepilot amirite?

No, I'm one of the people smart enough to realize we're playing a game. I don't need CCP to waste years of developer time to help me feel like a "freelance space police".


I'm not sure where your opinion that people who like a logical and well rounded gaming environment translates into a difficulty separating a game from reality.

Would you perhaps be happier if your ships instead were simple cubes or X's, and your visuals were all reduced to lines of text describing what your surroundings look like? Smile

This is simply another layer of the onion, a new degree of depth to our shared game play.

Lest I've been out of this thread for too long, let me restate my position.

I don't think work should be ongoing at the moment for WIS content.

Instead I believe actual coding resources should continue to be devoted to FIS content (and of course the DUST team should continue doing what they need to do for launch).

My desire is that this time be spent by the group that is responsible for overall game strategy to spend part of their time working hard to come up with logical, solid concepts for this new area of content. Concepts that enrich the game as a whole (including FIS content), and make sense instead of gratuitous fluff. Plans to devote a sensible amount of resources to it when the time comes, not neglect core game play.

I don't think that's out of line, and it doesn't step on anyone's toes.

I hope my point of view on this hasn't stepped on yours.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Professor Alphane
Zombie Surplus
Mildy Unprofessional
#1827 - 2011-12-30 02:05:25 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
So flavor text aside, in a few minutes you have some viable concepts that make sense in the Incarna environment.

1: New types of agents, powerful sources of very private information, that make sense to contact in person.

2: New items of questionable nature than cannot be sold via the market or contracts, and the only trading possible is done face to face due to the nature of the item. Drugs and smuggling equipment make sense for this type of meeting, one where a public hanger to hanger trade could logically be a bad idea.

3: A Command and Control Center that allows far, far more information on a battle situation than any fleet commander would have currently in his ship. One that eliminates the necessity for large volumes of voice communications to relay basic enemy movements, and utilizes the scanners of your scouts and FC's to give a much clearer picture of the battle (in perhaps multiple systems simultaneously) than you could possibly get with the current overview.

That's about 15 minutes worth of thought from someone with only a rudimentary knowledge of game theory. I rather imagine that with any serious thought put to it the logical possibilities are pretty diverse.

Hey, he asked for even one example. I provided several with very little effort... none of which would be overly difficult to code.

Just making a point.



Non of your suggestions actually require Wis though , all could be implemented without. It's not neccesary to see your charecter to do these things and it would be so much simpler developing them without the need for all the extra, moddeling of enviroments, charecters, bitmapping, rigging, programming involved. lets take a look at them one by one.

1. AFAIK you have to talk to your agents in person anyway.

2. Smuggling already excists and see point 1

3. Why not simply develop a new UI window for command ships.

I think a lot of people supported Wis originally because they thought it would lead to fighting in stations/ships etc. as CCP have chosen to go the route of DUST regarding person to person combat in EVE, it basically leaves Wis a usless dead end.

A catwalk for CCP's AUR fashion show, and we all now how succseful AUR was now don't we. Without that crux or the intent to develop a whole new RPG MMO for missioning in stations (years of development work) it leaves the whole concept dead in the water as far as I'm concerned.

If you want an 'in person' RPG go find one that is to your taste, if you like to fly spaceships then stick with EVE. At least have the decency to admit CCP dropped the ball and let them get on with developing and polishing the game as it is, a SPACE SIM (and boy does it need some work).

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]

Zevina
Atomic Core Industries and Science
#1828 - 2011-12-30 02:13:53 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Disdaine wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
lol roleplayers


Cuz u're a reel spacepilot amirite?

No, I'm one of the people smart enough to realize we're playing a game. I don't need CCP to waste years of developer time to help me feel like a "freelance space police".


For a person that considers himself smart you are pretty offensive and rude against players that dont share your personal opinion. But maybe acting in such a way is how you want this game to be.

However after 92 pages its apperently clear a vast majority still wants WiS the way it was planned and advertised.

Now its up to CCP to fulfill their promises.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#1829 - 2011-12-30 02:17:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Professor Alphane wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
So flavor text aside, in a few minutes you have some viable concepts that make sense in the Incarna environment.

1: New types of agents, powerful sources of very private information, that make sense to contact in person.

2: New items of questionable nature than cannot be sold via the market or contracts, and the only trading possible is done face to face due to the nature of the item. Drugs and smuggling equipment make sense for this type of meeting, one where a public hanger to hanger trade could logically be a bad idea.

3: A Command and Control Center that allows far, far more information on a battle situation than any fleet commander would have currently in his ship. One that eliminates the necessity for large volumes of voice communications to relay basic enemy movements, and utilizes the scanners of your scouts and FC's to give a much clearer picture of the battle (in perhaps multiple systems simultaneously) than you could possibly get with the current overview.

That's about 15 minutes worth of thought from someone with only a rudimentary knowledge of game theory. I rather imagine that with any serious thought put to it the logical possibilities are pretty diverse.

Hey, he asked for even one example. I provided several with very little effort... none of which would be overly difficult to code.

Just making a point.



Non of your suggestions actually require Wis though , all could be implemented without. It's not neccesary to see your charecter to do these things and it would be so much simpler developing them without the need for all the extra, moddeling of enviroments, charecters, bitmapping, rigging, programming involved. lets take a look at them one by one.

1. AFAIK you have to talk to your agents in person anyway.

2. Smuggling already excists and see point 1

3. Why not simply develop a new UI window for command ships.

I think a lot of people supported Wis originally because they thought it would lead to fighting in stations/ships etc. as CCP have chosen to go the route of DUST regarding person to person combat in EVE, it basically leaves Wis a usless dead end.

A catwalk for CCP's AUR fashion show, and we all now how succseful AUR was now don't we. Without that crux or the intent to develop a whole new RPG MMO for missioning in stations (years of development work) it leaves the whole concept dead in the water as far as I'm concerned.

If you want an 'in person' RPG go find one that is to your taste, if you like to fly spaceships then stick with EVE. At least have the decency to admit CCP dropped the ball and let them get on with developing and polishing the game as it is, a SPACE SIM (and boy does it need some work).


In fact, you don't actually need to see a ship or a station do to any of the things you currently do in game. Your point is lacking.

There are many things that make sense to want to do more efficiently, more secretly, person to person. I could call, text, or email people directly to arrange all sorts of illegal activities... but that doesn't really make much sense now does it.

I would be a pretty poor drug dealer if I used my home phone to call all of my customers on their home phone to arrange a sale, and then sent their goods to them via mail directly. There are reasons why people do that type of business face to face.

As far as the Command Center is concerned, the volume of information and tools available would be quite impractical for a pilot at the scene of the combat to actually try to keep track of in addition to keeping himself from getting roasted in the process. If you refuse to see the value of your entire screen being taken up with a 3D display of the entire battle, with more extensive coms and tools at your disposal than you could jam in with your normal necessary UI, that is a limitation on your part... not mine. More importantly, it makes SENSE in game... just as it does for our armed forces out of game.

People can identify with this, and more importantly have fun with this. If you aren't comfortable with that I don't know what to tell you.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Professor Alphane
Zombie Surplus
Mildy Unprofessional
#1830 - 2011-12-30 02:19:11 UTC
Zevina wrote:

However after 92 pages its apperently clear a vast majority still wants WiS the way it was planned and advertised.



No TBH this thread wouldn't have lasted 90+ pages if an equal number of people didn't think it was a stupid idea to keep flogging a dead horse.

So a fairer assesment would be the community is split and no...
Quote:
...vast majority...
...excists.

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]

Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1831 - 2011-12-30 02:22:38 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
I'm not sure where your opinion that people who like a logical and well rounded gaming environment translates into a difficulty separating a game from reality.

Let me clear that up for you. The people having trouble separating a game from reality are the same people who think it's a good idea for CCP to ignore actual Eve content so they can make designer space pants.

If CCP had been able to work on some sort of WiS system without ignoring real Eve content for two years I wouldn't care a bit. I was even interested in what they showed at fanfest several years ago until they threw in all the RMT/microtransaction crap. I was ecstatic when Hilmar released his apology and promised a return to working on Eve and it distresses me that a small handful of people in this thread are asking for him to go back on that.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#1832 - 2011-12-30 02:23:10 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
Zevina wrote:

However after 92 pages its apperently clear a vast majority still wants WiS the way it was planned and advertised.



No TBH this thread wouldn't have lasted 90+ pages if an equal number of people didn't think it was a stupid idea to keep flogging a dead horse.

So a fairer assesment would be the community is split and no...
Quote:
...vast majority...
...excists.


I would agree with you in part.

A lot of people go to ridiculous extremes on this topic. The core theme though is that the concept is worth pursuing IF it is well thought through, makes sense, is fun, and doesn't detract from the development of core (FIS) game play.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1833 - 2011-12-30 02:26:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Ladie Harlot
Zevina wrote:
For a person that considers himself smart you are pretty offensive and rude against players that dont share your personal opinion. But maybe acting in such a way is how you want this game to be.

However after 92 pages its apperently clear a vast majority still wants WiS the way it was planned and advertised.

Now its up to CCP to fulfill their promises.

First of all I'm sorry that you find logic and common sense "pretty offenive and rude". Not sure what I can do about it.

Second, if you had actually read all 92 pages of the thread like I have you'd see that there are very, very few pro-WiS people (or space barbie fetishists as they prefer to be called) but those few people (and their alts) are very vocal. Without a doubt the majority of posts in this thread are from me and others like me who don't want to see Eve ruined again.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

Professor Alphane
Zombie Surplus
Mildy Unprofessional
#1834 - 2011-12-30 02:29:41 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:


In fact, you don't actually need to see a ship or a station do to any of the things you currently do in game. Your point is lacking.

Not at all, my point still stands why waste thousands of man hours when you don't need to

There are many things that make sense to want to do more efficiently, more secretly, person to person. I could call, text, or email people directly to arrange all sorts of illegal activities... but that doesn't really make much sense now does it.

I would be a pretty poor drug dealer if I used my home phone to call all of my customers on their home phone to arrange a sale, and then sent their goods to them via mail directly. There are reasons why people do that type of business face to face.

Again you fail to understand that ingame we DO talk face to face with our agents and not on comms as your scenario describes

As far as the Command Center is concerned, the volume of information and tools available would be quite impractical for a pilot at the scene of the combat to actually try to keep track of in addition to keeping himself from getting roasted in the process. If you refuse to see the value of your entire screen being taken up with a 3D display of the entire battle, with more extensive coms and tools at your disposal than you could jam in with your normal necessary UI, that is a limitation on your part... not mine. More importantly, it makes SENSE in game... just as it does for our armed forces out of game.

Who said it couldn't be 3D? Who said you couldn't expand it to full screen? have you never heard of a mobile command centre IRL? I'm not saying a TAC display is a bad idea my point is it doesn't NEED Wis and would be 100* harder to implement if you tried to use it

People can identify with this, and more importantly have fun with this. If you aren't comfortable with that I don't know what to tell you.

I have no problem with people having fun ingame, they do already WITHOUT Wis, kinda proving my point I feel


[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#1835 - 2011-12-30 02:29:46 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
I'm not sure where your opinion that people who like a logical and well rounded gaming environment translates into a difficulty separating a game from reality.

Let me clear that up for you. The people having trouble separating a game from reality are the same people who think it's a good idea for CCP to ignore actual Eve content so they can make designer space pants.

If CCP had been able to work on some sort of WiS system without ignoring real Eve content for two years I wouldn't care a bit. I was even interested in what they showed at fanfest several years ago until they threw in all the RMT/microtransaction crap. I was ecstatic when Hilmar released his apology and promised a return to working on Eve and it distresses me that a small handful of people in this thread are asking for him to go back on that.


We are largely in agreement on that.

The whole fashion show route was horribly thought out. Customizing your appearance isn't bad in and of itself, but how they did it was embarrassingly bad.

You need to be aware of the fact that a lot of the people in this thread are of the same opinion in that regard, and are not proponents of sacrificing needed development time from FIS game play.

Instead they would rather a solid concept be developed first, not gratuitous crap be thrown together to justify the tech... and a sensible division of resources be implemented instead of ignoring the core game play entirely.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1836 - 2011-12-30 02:34:13 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
You need to be aware of the fact that a lot of the people in this thread are of the same opinion in that regard, and are not proponents of sacrificing needed development time from FIS game play.

If that is true and CCP has already told them that further Incarna development hasn't been canceled but is on the back burner what more are they asking for in this thread?

The fact that they keep bleating about their space pants tells me that they *are* wanting CCP to sacrifice actual Eve content for more WiS nonsense.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#1837 - 2011-12-30 02:41:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Professor Alphane wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:


In fact, you don't actually need to see a ship or a station do to any of the things you currently do in game. Your point is lacking.

Not at all, my point still stands why waste thousands of man hours when you don't need to

There are many things that make sense to want to do more efficiently, more secretly, person to person. I could call, text, or email people directly to arrange all sorts of illegal activities... but that doesn't really make much sense now does it.

I would be a pretty poor drug dealer if I used my home phone to call all of my customers on their home phone to arrange a sale, and then sent their goods to them via mail directly. There are reasons why people do that type of business face to face.

Again you fail to understand that ingame we DO talk face to face with our agents and not on comms as your scenario describes

As far as the Command Center is concerned, the volume of information and tools available would be quite impractical for a pilot at the scene of the combat to actually try to keep track of in addition to keeping himself from getting roasted in the process. If you refuse to see the value of your entire screen being taken up with a 3D display of the entire battle, with more extensive coms and tools at your disposal than you could jam in with your normal necessary UI, that is a limitation on your part... not mine. More importantly, it makes SENSE in game... just as it does for our armed forces out of game.

Who said it couldn't be 3D? Who said you couldn't expand it to full screen? have you never heard of a mobile command centre IRL? I'm not saying a TAC display is a bad idea my point is it doesn't NEED Wis and would be 100* harder to implement if you tried to use it

People can identify with this, and more importantly have fun with this. If you aren't comfortable with that I don't know what to tell you.

I have no problem with people having fun ingame, they do already WITHOUT Wis, kinda proving my point I feel





Again, none of what we have now is necessary for game play. Not ship graphics, not station or space environments, not even an overview. There are reasons why we DO have them anyway, it allows you to identify and make sense of what is going on around you in a fun and identifiable way. This is no different.

Actually, no. Before CQ you never left your ship, to converse with an agent or otherwise. You sat there, in your ship to talking via the same chat interface with little still pictures of your agents having a text conversation with you. Now if you IMAGINED something more, perhaps you are instead proving the appeal of having a the game visually reflect that.

A Command Center view point of a battle makes a great deal more sense to be done from a station, and also opens up many possibilities as well if this "battle overview" has a range limit. People within range of a Command Center would have a noticeable advantage over those out of range of their own. It would provide a reason for taking a systematic approach to securing enemy Outposts in range of the front lines for your own use first, so that you would not be disadvantaged by the defenders. Frankly, I certainly wouldn't want to be vulnerable in a ship in space with all of my screen being devoted to an overview of a battle and oblivious to my personal situation.

I'm glad you still remember that fun is the main objective. Try to keep in mind that this is just another layer of fun that would be available to be experienced.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#1838 - 2011-12-30 02:50:21 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
You need to be aware of the fact that a lot of the people in this thread are of the same opinion in that regard, and are not proponents of sacrificing needed development time from FIS game play.

If that is true and CCP has already told them that further Incarna development hasn't been canceled but is on the back burner what more are they asking for in this thread?

The fact that they keep bleating about their space pants tells me that they *are* wanting CCP to sacrifice actual Eve content for more WiS nonsense.


I think they are just wanting some indication of a rough time frame when development might be looked at again. CCP does have a bad habit of taking an "all or nothing" approach at times that has not served them well in the past.

Honestly, a lot of the bleating about space pants has come from people attempting to shut down any further conversation in favor of WIS. Most (but not all) of the people speaking in favor of Incarna haven't really made that a main point.

I personally like the option to customize my character. I have in every game I've played (and most allowed it to varying degree's). It helps build an identity in game, and EVE especially is all about your rep and how you present yourself (granted, how you look visually takes a back seat to what you accomplish).

I would have no objections to having some 3rd party develop new "stuff" for the characters to customize with, but that's a pretty trivial point in this discussion.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Disdaine
#1839 - 2011-12-30 03:01:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Disdaine
Ladie Harlot wrote:

The fact that they keep bleating about their space pants tells me that they *are* wanting CCP to sacrifice actual Eve content for more WiS nonsense.


Only one bleating about space pants and space barbie fetishists is yourself and your cohort.

What did you say in another thread where someone suggested that CCP implement clothing that has already been developed and in-game?
Quote:
Yes, CCP, please stop working on actual Eve content so the space barbies can play dressup.

Quote:

No, I'm one of the people smart enough to realize we're playing a game


Smarter than the average goonbear.
Professor Alphane
Zombie Surplus
Mildy Unprofessional
#1840 - 2011-12-30 03:07:29 UTC
Whatever way you try and sell the idea unless CCP where commited to designing a whole new game based around 'avatar' activity , it's just hype.

Perhaps that was the original intention but frankly I have very little respect left for the modern CCP. Originally EVE was a work of genius IMO, it's been badly mismanaged ever since. They fail to keep there eye on the ball and seem to walk round with there head in the clouds, thinking this would be great or that is the dogs knackers. What the deliver is mostly half cocked ideas poorly implemented.

As a company they already seem to be floundering (other developments shelved and staff laid off) and making high stakes gambles (Dust).

Why should I be so bothered? well at the end of the day I enjoy EVE and should CCP go belly up the very excistance of new eden would be in doubt (unless someone else bought it out ).

WiS is in no way neccasery to EVE as the past 10 years have proven, and while it would be nice to please all the people all the time, it just isn't practical.

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]