These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Forum Index

EVE Forums » EVE Technology and Research Center » Player Features and Ideas Discussion » [Aegis] More balance! - Ishtars, DDAs an...

Topic is locked indefinitely.

First pagePrevious page2526272829Next pageLast page

[Aegis] More balance! - Ishtars, DDAs and the Tempest First post First post First post
Author

Previous Topic Next Topic

Iroquoiss Pliskin

9B30FF Labs

Likes received: 783

#521 - 2015-06-26 08:38:46 UTC | Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin

Ellendras Silver wrote:

afkalt wrote:

Mario Putzo wrote:

Ellendras Silver wrote:

give me some examples because the only droneboats used in PVP are ishtars and sometimes domis in large battles i dont think domi`s are OP in this way but if you think so plz enlighten me. but dont just ramble something use arguments and some form of evidence that these ships are OP in any way

Perhaps the fact droneboats are by and far the largest sources of damage and destruction at (nearly) every ship hull size sub capital (Source CCP Fozzie made a statement regarding this https://embed.gyazo.com/45277828e1b46c214fe892021888099a.png)

(and im sure if you ignored Catalyst ganking in HS they would be up there for Destroyers as well)

Vexors are popular gankboats too.

What would be more interesting is removing structure bashes from these numbers. They skew it hardcore to lasers and drones for obvious reasons.

they are but not because they are OP but because they are fast to get into

Must be female logic. Smile

Other cruisers take longer to get into? Phuuhlease.

Dron gonna dron

Mario Putzo wrote:

Which is why I don't understand nerfing DDA's to fix a symptom that is result of Sentries themselves.

It it all of the drones, with DDAs being the cause - drone attributes were not adjusted on their introduction to my knowledge, while DDAs received the same bonus as the other damage mod types.

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]

Jeremiah Saken

The Fall of Leviathan

Likes received: 830

#522 - 2015-06-26 08:43:41 UTC

Aplysia Vejun wrote:

Sure. Can i have the pwgen and the cpu of the stratios for my ishtar? Ah and the speed too please.

Do I have to mark my post as irony or did you not get it such as Rise? Because Rise still not get it what is wrong with Ishtar. It will end same way as drake and HMLs I presume.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Doomheim 527
Daniela Doran Doomheim Likes received: 527	#523 - 2015-06-26 08:44:17 UTC afkalt wrote: Honestly, I'd let the slot change pan out a bit before nerfing DDA. I really think the slot change might be enough. Are you a ghost?

Iroquoiss Pliskin

9B30FF Labs

Likes received: 783

#524 - 2015-06-26 08:47:12 UTC | Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin

Terra Chrall wrote:

This is not true.

Right now, Ishtar's are among the best sniping cruisers for the applied damage done. With the proposed AEGIS changes they will do the following using 3x DDA IIs, 2 OTE II, 2 DLA II:

Curator: ~480 DPS @ 78km/17km
Bouncer: ~450 DPS @ 67km/76km
Warden: ~435 DPS @ 112km/59km

Definitely a top sniping cruiser. With new missile mods the Cerberus will be equally high on the list with a 20% DPS loss for choosing selection type so for EM over Kinetic you get 400 DPS instead of 500 DPS which is good DPS and pretty big range increase over the curator .

An Eagle using 250mm railsguns with 3 Mag Stab II and 2 TC II with Optimal script does:

CN Plutonium: ~390 @ 66km/25km
CN Uranium: ~374 DPS @ 79km/25km
CN Lead: ~299 DPS @ 105/25k
Spike: ~260 DPS @ 190km/25km

The Sacrilege does not have the range of Cerberus but with the new modules it should be able to snipe just fine.
Using 3x BCS II + 1x missile velocity rig and 1x flight time rig (new missile modules will open greater range and application options).

(Any damage type)
HAM CN: 494 @ 44km
HM Fury: 417 DPS @ 102km
HM CN: 355 DPS @ 136k

A Zealot with Heavy Beam Laser II 3x HS II, 1x TC II optimal script, 1x TE

Ultraviolet: 470 DPS @ 49km/15km
Standard: 417 DPS @ 56km/15km
Aurora: 363 DPS @ 101km/15km

And let's throw in an Arty HAC too for good measure. Vagabond using 650mm II, 3x Gyro II, 1x TC II optimal script, 1x TE II.

RF EMP: 403DPS @ 15km/50k
RF Nuclear: 168 DPS @ 48km/50km
Tremor: 234 DPS @ 54km/50km

Muninn with same setup:

RF EMP: 403DPS @ 23k/33km
RF Nuclear: 168 DPS @ 72km/33km
Tremor: 234 DPS @ 82km/33km

REKT.

And just look at that sentry falloff - it is definitely not a cruiser weapons system. Ishtar will still compete with Battleships, not HACs.

Phaade wrote:

Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:

More data for the cri-ers - http://i.imgur.com/afJycoE.png?1

PvP damage done by ship class, segmented by weapons type. Smile

Jesus Christ...

How the **** did it take CCP this long to pull head from ass?

It happens. Smile

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]

Daniela Doran

Doomheim

Likes received: 527

#525 - 2015-06-26 08:51:15 UTC

Altrue wrote:

CCP Rise wrote:

This flexibility is part of what makes drones really interesting and while sentries have become a big part of what makes certain hulls so strong, we don't want to lock drone ships into drones that match their ship size.

I don't think people are asking for Ishtars to be unable to use sentries.

Most people are asking for the removal of sentries bonuses on them. You know, the +25% damage, AND the +25% hitpoints, AND the +25% tracking, AND the +25% optimal.

They would still be able to use sentries, but their stats would be more in-line with their actual balanced state.

Nope that's not it. They should keep 10% to drone damage and hit points as they did before and just introduce medium sentry drones.

Daniela Doran

Doomheim

Likes received: 527

#526 - 2015-06-26 08:57:29 UTC

Gremk wrote:

At first I was slightly against the DDA change but I think this is actually going to be a good change. I think you should consider giving the Ishtar a slight bonus to hybrids in some way to really turn it into a heavy brawler and just be done with sentries on the Ishtar.

I think there should be some consideration as to how the DDA will indirectly impact supers though... I think it'll be a good change for all other drone boats though.

The only thing I find frustrating about drone boats is how easy it is to wipe their DPS when using heavies/medium/lights. Lowering the DPS is understandable but don't forget the HUGE drawbacks of having a DPS platform that is 100% destructible.

Worst idea I read so far.

-1


Daniela Doran Doomheim Likes received: 527	#527 - 2015-06-26 09:00:39 UTC 1 Harvey James wrote: some good changes, but i still think droneboats have a big slot advantage over ships needing turrets/hardpoints, so please consider reducing slots on all droneboats to -3 slots, guristas should also follow the - slots which they do not atm for some reason... Oops , and we have a new leader as the worst posting in this thread. -2


Daniela Doran Doomheim Likes received: 527	#528 - 2015-06-26 09:18:01 UTC TrouserDeagle wrote: how about 10% damage per level and a falloff or tracking bonus for the tempest instead. rupture could do with the same kind of treatment btw (or you could fix projectiles lol). Yep something like this. Oh and you forgot the Hurricane

Kagura Nikon

Native Freshfood

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 2,148

#529 - 2015-06-26 09:22:44 UTC

The Sinister wrote:

To CCP Rise: This is my girl friends response on the ishtar subject and I quote:

" Is this guy dumb or something? Why not just take the what ever u call it bonus to sentry drones away from the damn thing and get it over with, I think he dosnt get laid very often! Men stop thinking straight when that happens!"

And of course I LOL!

And she DOSNT play the game...

And people are just ignoreing his job. What would you put in place of the ishtar bonuses? Come on, find me 4 relevant bonus to put on the ishtar that do not make it a split weapon system (That would make peopel whine as well).

His job is not easy!

THe only good solution someone gave was to create MEDIUM sentry drones with 10M bandwidth. Then reduce the bandwidth of all ISHTAR/navy vezor hulls to 50. Then make its base drone bonus increase a lot for medium drones (to keep almost same DPS with non sentries) and put the other bonuses on the new medium sentries, that can be balanced to compete with MEDIUM SIZED GUNS.

"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon

Native Freshfood

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 2,148

#530 - 2015-06-26 09:23:44 UTC

Daniela Doran wrote:

TrouserDeagle wrote:

how about 10% damage per level and a falloff or tracking bonus for the tempest instead. rupture could do with the same kind of treatment btw (or you could fix projectiles lol).

Yep something like this. Oh and you forgot the Hurricane

I think you might see something like that on the fleet tempest...

one type of bonus is best for a clsoe range anti support battleship, the other makes it an excelent fleet ship.

"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"

Jeremiah Saken

The Fall of Leviathan

Likes received: 830

#531 - 2015-06-26 10:19:43 UTC

Kagura Nikon wrote:

Gallente Cruiser skill bonus per level:
7.5% Heavy Drone max velocity and tracking speed
10% bonus to Light Drone, Medium Drone, and Heavy Drone hitpoints and damage
5% bonus to Sentry Drone hitpoints and damage

Heavy Assault Cruisers skill bonus per level:
2500m bonus to Drone operation range
5%/10% bonus to drone max velocity

Ishtar has very good range and tracking with sentries. Alpha almost as HML BC. Capless, no ammo consuming, good rof, why using other hull than that?

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

TinkerHell

Nocturnal Romance

Cynosural Field Theory.

Likes received: 251

#532 - 2015-06-26 10:33:32 UTC

Kagura Nikon wrote:

Surely it is alot easier and more logical to change the bonus on 1 ship than nerf the dps of every drone ship in the game that uses DDAs, even ships that use light, med, heavy drones that are not OP?

1,718
Anthar Thebess Likes received: 1,718	#533 - 2015-06-26 10:40:08 UTC I know this is very , very bad idea . Ishtar slot layout : 5H / 3M / 7L Pure armor ship. As for the tempest. Base stat boost is nice, but instead of it can we get ability to mount 8 guns? Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists Show your support to The Cause!

FT Diomedes

The Graduates

Likes received: 2,921

#534 - 2015-06-26 10:43:13 UTC

Anthar Thebess wrote:

I know this is very , very bad idea . Ishtar slot layout : 5H / 3M / 7L Pure armor ship.

As for the tempest.
Base stat boost is nice, but instead of it can we get ability to mount 8 guns?

Three mids is just an awful cruiser.

I'd also rather fit six awesome turrets than eight mediocre ones.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.


Daniela Doran Doomheim Likes received: 527	#535 - 2015-06-26 11:03:51 UTC \| Edited by: Daniela Doran Anthar Thebess wrote: I know this is very , very bad idea . Ishtar slot layout : 5H / 3M / 7L Pure armor ship. As for the tempest. Base stat boost is nice, but instead of it can we get ability to mount 8 guns? And that would make the Maelstrom???? -1 And yes you where right it was a very bad idea on that Ishtar slot layout. -1

Omnathious Deninard

University of Caille

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 3,623

#536 - 2015-06-26 11:04:16 UTC

Kagura Nikon wrote:

Very True

Kagura Nikon wrote:

THe only good solution someone gave was to create MEDIUM sentry drones with 10M bandwidth. Then reduce the bandwidth of all ISHTAR/navy vezor hulls to 50. Then make its base drone bonus increase a lot for medium drones (to keep almost same DPS with non sentries) and put the other bonuses on the new medium sentries, that can be balanced to compete with MEDIUM SIZED GUNS.

The problem i see with this, is they would need a 30% damage buff per level to maintain there current DPS, and cruiser sized sentries with a 30% damage buff would put medium range engagements in a worse place than they are now.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Gudu FlyingSoul

EXTELLAR H

Death Legion of Capybaras

Likes received: 4

#537 - 2015-06-26 11:23:26 UTC

Hi there and sorry about my english, it's not my native language.

I started play EVE on April 2014 and I'm a lover of the minion/petmaster/necro way on all mmo's so the Drone path was the natural choice. It's hard to train... without remaps a +8M drone learning it's a 160 days effort but u will have a versatile and solid style on early EVE stages.

I think that monitor and balance ships it's healthy but nerf modules with supersets scope it's a bad idea with negative impact on early game (less that 2 years of skills points). This way to balance drones affects the game of those new players that choice that way. 5-6 months of veteran player's time is not a problem but on a noob its a drama.

The same tree-level skillsets that concerns early game (gunnery/missile and small/medium focused) are less skill intensive (or similar in time). What would be the reaction of the new players if all the small/medium weapons were nerfed at the same time after 6 months?

Advice: balance the f***ing ships, no the aspects of the game that concern hunge skillsets groups

Regards

Daniela Doran

Doomheim

Likes received: 527

#538 - 2015-06-26 11:24:34 UTC | Edited by: Daniela Doran

Kagura Nikon wrote:

The Sinister wrote:

I said and as many many other people post threads on the obvious solution for the Ishtar's rebalancing. There are two options:

Option #1-- Introduce medium size sentry drones for use by Cruiser & Battlecruiser sized hulls that are balanced around the long range medium turret weapon systems, ala Medium Rails, Beams and Arties.

Option #2--Make the Ishtar a heavy drone based ship, a direct upgraded version of the VNI. And while doing so, transform the EOS into what the 2013 Ishtar was. (No one should complain about a T2 BC being able to use T2 Sentries, right?)

Heavy Drone Focused Ishtar
Gallente Cruiser bonuses (per skill level):
7.5% bonus to Heavy Drone max velocity and tracking speed
10% bonus to and Drone hit points and damage
Heavy Assault Cruisers bonuses (per skill level):
5000m bonus to Drone operation range or -10% Reduction to Heavy Drone Signature Radius
7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer amount
Role Bonus:
50% reduction in Microwarpdrive signature radius penalty

Doomheim 938
Kaivar Lancer Doomheim Likes received: 938	#539 - 2015-06-26 11:31:24 UTC \| Edited by: Kaivar Lancer 2 Why is the DDA getting nerfed? Nerf the hulls, not the module. Other drone boats like the Dragoon just got nerfed for no reason.


Gudu FlyingSoul EXTELLAR H Death Legion of Capybaras Likes received: 4	#540 - 2015-06-26 11:40:50 UTC Kaivar Lancer wrote: Why is the DDA getting nerfed? Nerf the hulls, not the module. ^This. LvL4 Domi/Ishtar runners, Carriers, Gila/Rattle on WH, Worm small PvP's, PvP alliance fleet doctrines, SoE exploration ships ... ¿This is the impact that CCP is looking for?

First pagePrevious page2526272829Next pageLast page