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[AEGIS] Fleet Warp Changes - Please see devblog!

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Starbuck05
Abiding Ormolus
#1361 - 2015-06-16 06:15:15 UTC
Good stuff...i mean its not like subscription numbers are going down as it is...just w8 till this gets out...


Its like CCP is not even trying to make money not to mention improve the game we all enjoy so much...


Just my 2$ ...i don' t have 2 cents

Just because i am blond does not make me stoopid !
Ben Ishikela
#1362 - 2015-06-16 08:23:31 UTC
I cannot believe that the rather intelligent playerbase of EvE is so blind. Did all the F1-monkeyery make you stupid all of a sudden?
You, as many others, seem to miss the point.

Providing warpins is a very fun activity. Its get the heart pumping. Everyone is relying on you. Here you can show off your skills and make the warpin even closer and better (ofc at more risk).
But it is overshadowed by current fleetwarps in combination with probing. Its hardly needed currently.

With the changes, an interceptor or cloaky frigate will be a very valuable asset.
For a Pilot to help his fleet, he does not need to be able to sit in a MNI or Ishtar with perfect rekking-skills. Then he'll need low training time required, only 30mil for a a fitted fast ship and a little experience of manual piloting.
I dont say its easy, there is communication and other skills required. But Eve is hard. If its getting harder, well.... even better.
I am predicting, that Corporations are going to need more pilots and not only SP-heavy scanning alts.... And that, i believe, is a good thing for the health of a game.

Tactik for cloaky warpin: let the covops (fitted hyperspacial etc) warp to 10 of his target. as soon as he lands he calls that out and the fleet warps to 0km onto him. at that time, the enemy might be farther away, so bonus if they have speed. but then again, a wise interceptor pilot could help to predict that movement. Well, maybe even assault frigates will be useful again!

Let the paying noobs have a shiny day in a fleet too!!! (... and if he f*s up, its just a little frigate wreck more. not the end of the day.)

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.
Kristian Hackett
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1363 - 2015-06-16 09:01:34 UTC
Ok so let me get this straight - the FC can't warp members to any location that the members can't warp to via any combination of normal overview settings? So if I'm leading a bunch of newbros in a mission fleet, I won't be able to warp the entire fleet into the mission location, I'll have to warp to it first and then they all have to warp to me once I land on grid?

Honestly, I'm failing to see how this is a change that needs to be made. Stepping away from the meta conversation here and going into the game, you would think that if we've got the technology to warp across vast distances of space in a matter of seconds, a fleet commander broadcasting warp coordinates on the fly (aka warp fleet to a bookmark) should be a trivial matter. Sorry CCP, this just seems to be a step in the wrong direction.

Aircraft Maintenance - Using a high school diploma to fix what a college degree just f***ed up. "Life is too short to drink cheap beer."
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1364 - 2015-06-16 09:18:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Awkward Pi Duolus
Ben Ishikela wrote:
I cannot believe that the rather intelligent playerbase of EvE is so blind. Did all the F1-monkeyery make you stupid all of a sudden?
You, as many others, seem to miss the point.

... reasons ...

Let the paying noobs have a shiny day in a fleet too!!! (... and if he f*s up, its just a little frigate wreck more. not the end of the day.)


It's cute that you're buying the argument hook, line and sinker. However...
- This change will mean that it forces the FC to get another alt, unless s/he already uses a cloaky prober one, which is the case in a large majority of fleets. They're not suddenly going to start 'trusting noobs' just cause a game mechanic is forced on them
- Many if not most groups encourage and promote new players and old to play the role of scout when they step up. Forcing this game mechanic will not make them double down on this just cause..

A word to the wise - if Eve's otherwise "intelligent playerbase" is suddenly up in arms about something that you don't understand, perhaps it's worthwhile to consider that it is your comprehension that is lacking :)
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1365 - 2015-06-16 10:00:15 UTC
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:
Ben Ishikela wrote:
I cannot believe that the rather intelligent playerbase of EvE is so blind. Did all the F1-monkeyery make you stupid all of a sudden?
You, as many others, seem to miss the point.

... reasons ...

Let the paying noobs have a shiny day in a fleet too!!! (... and if he f*s up, its just a little frigate wreck more. not the end of the day.)


It's cute that you're buying the argument hook, line and sinker. However...
- This change will mean that it forces the FC to get another alt, unless s/he already uses a cloaky prober one, which is the case in a large majority of fleets. They're not suddenly going to start 'trusting noobs' just cause a game mechanic is forced on them
- Many if not most groups encourage and promote new players and old to play the role of scout when they step up. Forcing this game mechanic will not make them double down on this just cause..

A word to the wise - if Eve's otherwise "intelligent playerbase" is suddenly up in arms about something that you don't understand, perhaps it's worthwhile to consider that it is your comprehension that is lacking :)



You're ignoring the point that this means less deaths. Lots of people whine that not enough stuff dies, not enough fights. Removing the ability to fleet warp to a location probed out by the guy in the FC slot means less dropping on top of enemy fleets at 0. All this change does is reinforce the current longer range kiting doctrines. Yawn.

A happy medium here could be met, that is a fleet member could probe out another fleet then broad cast that location which fleet members could individually warp themselves too. That way more is put on individual fleet members however the pace of fights isn't diminished, which is what will happen after this change.
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1366 - 2015-06-16 10:53:51 UTC
knobber Jobbler wrote:
A happy medium here could be met, that is a fleet member could probe out another fleet then broad cast that location which fleet members could individually warp themselves too. That way more is put on individual fleet members however the pace of fights isn't diminished, which is what will happen after this change.


Agreed. I don't know if Talvorian was the first to suggest this idea, but it's a good one.

Much better at addressing the issue of fleet participation than the current bone-headed suggestion.
Canon Makanen
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1367 - 2015-06-16 10:57:13 UTC
no more update? or cancel? after 70 pages' disagreements and still no dev to respond our question? cancel this change or delay it please
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1368 - 2015-06-16 11:04:16 UTC
Ben Ishikela wrote:
Providing warpins is a very fun activity. Its get the heart pumping. Everyone is relying on you. Here you can show off your skills and make the warpin even closer and better (ofc at more risk).
But it is overshadowed by current fleetwarps in combination with probing. Its hardly needed currently.


Go move a mixed fleet through thera, repeatedly.

Let me know how "fun" it is.


I'll agree, it IS very much good in combat, but day to day movement? It's absolutely NO FUN being a mobile bookmark, or waiting on said bookmark landing with your junk hanging out.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1369 - 2015-06-16 11:40:40 UTC
kyoukoku wrote:
This nice article by Talvorian Dex, on Target Caller's blog, about the change got linked to in /r/eve an hour ago, so I thought it should be linked here for CCP to take notice of.


He doesn't get the change right off the bat. This change isn't meant to alter everything, its a very targeted change aimed at one thing. The whole point is to stop The FC being the scout too and to remove their ability to probe out a target and warp the entire fleet to it on their own. This is only the first of many changes likely to come.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1370 - 2015-06-16 12:23:24 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Ben Ishikela wrote:
Providing warpins is a very fun activity. Its get the heart pumping. Everyone is relying on you. Here you can show off your skills and make the warpin even closer and better (ofc at more risk).
But it is overshadowed by current fleetwarps in combination with probing. Its hardly needed currently.


Go move a mixed fleet through thera, repeatedly.

Let me know how "fun" it is.


I'll agree, it IS very much good in combat, but day to day movement? It's absolutely NO FUN being a mobile bookmark, or waiting on said bookmark landing with your junk hanging out.


You could always warp to your "BM" while he is still mid warp so you don't have to keep your junk hangning out. Pretty sure he count as a valid target as long as he is at least 150KM away. Is using 2 warp instead of just one hard?
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#1371 - 2015-06-16 12:41:03 UTC
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:
A word to the wise - if Eve's otherwise "intelligent playerbase" is suddenly up in arms about something that you don't understand, perhaps it's worthwhile to consider that it is your comprehension that is lacking :)


This is pretty biased statement.

Most people like the change or welcome it, nearly all like it with reservations. A bunch of SOV-null people and some low/wh-blobbers don't like it. Notice the tendency. People that are known for being bad are complaining the most.
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#1372 - 2015-06-16 12:53:36 UTC
oh, so squad warping my 2 member fleet to a mission is "power projection" now, is it? Ugh
like really, i can understand some of the reasons behind this nerf, but ccp approach on this matter seems something like: "you can't fix something? you need a bigger hammer then" ...
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1373 - 2015-06-16 12:54:56 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Ben Ishikela wrote:
Providing warpins is a very fun activity. Its get the heart pumping. Everyone is relying on you. Here you can show off your skills and make the warpin even closer and better (ofc at more risk).
But it is overshadowed by current fleetwarps in combination with probing. Its hardly needed currently.


Go move a mixed fleet through thera, repeatedly.

Let me know how "fun" it is.


I'll agree, it IS very much good in combat, but day to day movement? It's absolutely NO FUN being a mobile bookmark, or waiting on said bookmark landing with your junk hanging out.


You could always warp to your "BM" while he is still mid warp so you don't have to keep your junk hangning out. Pretty sure he count as a valid target as long as he is at least 150KM away. Is using 2 warp instead of just one hard?


Or use a warp speed fitted interceptor/cov ops.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1374 - 2015-06-16 12:56:21 UTC
gascanu wrote:
oh, so squad warping my 2 member fleet to a mission is "power projection" now, is it? Ugh
like really, i can understand some of the reasons behind this nerf, but ccp approach on this matter seems something like: "you can't fix something? you need a bigger hammer then" ...


Because waiting a few more seconds is the end of the world for mission runners.
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#1375 - 2015-06-16 12:57:25 UTC
Happy with this change, will be a bit more work living in wormholes but nothing too much of an issue.
rsantos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1376 - 2015-06-16 13:10:27 UTC  |  Edited by: rsantos
CCP DON'T BE SHY!

"Commanders will still be able to warp their fleet to other fleet members".

Remove this too! DOOO IT!

Let all the F1 pushers and multi-boxers cry!

NO JOKE! With the ease of probing, super fast warping ships and average blob size. This has to go too!
Watts the saying "You can't have the cake and eat it"...
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1377 - 2015-06-16 13:42:01 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Ben Ishikela wrote:
Providing warpins is a very fun activity. Its get the heart pumping. Everyone is relying on you. Here you can show off your skills and make the warpin even closer and better (ofc at more risk).
But it is overshadowed by current fleetwarps in combination with probing. Its hardly needed currently.


Go move a mixed fleet through thera, repeatedly.

Let me know how "fun" it is.


I'll agree, it IS very much good in combat, but day to day movement? It's absolutely NO FUN being a mobile bookmark, or waiting on said bookmark landing with your junk hanging out.


You could always warp to your "BM" while he is still mid warp so you don't have to keep your junk hangning out. Pretty sure he count as a valid target as long as he is at least 150KM away. Is using 2 warp instead of just one hard?



You can indeed.

Although not exactly adding "fun" really, is it. Or devolving responsibility from the FC.

I mean sure, it slows down fleet movements....WOOPWOOP. Engaging gameplay alert!

In fact it is almost as if the change is shonky and ill thought through Roll
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#1378 - 2015-06-16 13:45:31 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Ben Ishikela wrote:
Providing warpins is a very fun activity. Its get the heart pumping. Everyone is relying on you. Here you can show off your skills and make the warpin even closer and better (ofc at more risk).
But it is overshadowed by current fleetwarps in combination with probing. Its hardly needed currently.


Go move a mixed fleet through thera, repeatedly.

Let me know how "fun" it is.


I'll agree, it IS very much good in combat, but day to day movement? It's absolutely NO FUN being a mobile bookmark, or waiting on said bookmark landing with your junk hanging out.


You could always warp to your "BM" while he is still mid warp so you don't have to keep your junk hangning out. Pretty sure he count as a valid target as long as he is at least 150KM away. Is using 2 warp instead of just one hard?



You can indeed.

Although not exactly adding "fun" really, is it. Or devolving responsibility from the FC.

I mean sure, it slows down fleet movements....WOOPWOOP. Engaging gameplay alert!

In fact it is almost as if the change is shonky and ill thought through Roll


Plot Twist:

only applicable in highsec to stealth nerf ganking

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1379 - 2015-06-16 13:55:27 UTC
The thing that is always missing from these discussions is an examination of the current situation and WHY it exists.

As it is now, in a fleet fight, an FC fleet warping at the right moment saves a lot of fleet members from getting caught and blown up. So fleet warping adds to tactical depth because it keeps fights going for longer because it's hard to trap the enemy. This change may well mean it's easier to catch a fleet (especially in lag) or harder to get away.

Now some will think that's a good thing. If they do, they don't understand human nature. Putting people in a situation where they can be caught more easily doesn't lead to more fight, it leads to attempts to compensate, and if that doesn't work then it leads to more fight avoidance.

This change favors bigger fleets and punishes skirmisher type smaller fleets. It will lead to nothing more than larger fleets, heavier tanks and more logis in the (brick tanked and thus un-entertaining) fleets that do choose to fight, More "Slippery Pete" nullfied type fleets and more FCs choosing to not even undock because a single dictor can lead to the deaths of too many fleet members who had trouble warping themselves out do to lag or misalignment.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#1380 - 2015-06-16 14:00:41 UTC
yeah jenn, the fc rage is going to be unbearable when members dont hear commands and get caught in shiney srp'd doctrines

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*