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The Shrinking Sandbox - Eve by numbers

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1261 - 2015-06-13 21:33:37 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:

what are you going to do about it?


Nothing, you're doing an excellent job of making yourself look the fool without any help from me.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1262 - 2015-06-13 21:40:41 UTC
Listen, Facts, I'm going to need you to step into my office for a few minutes. We need to talk.

You've not been a good team player for a while, Facts. And although I have nothing against you people - verifiable data - in general, I'm afraid you just don't fit in with the culture here.

We're letting you go, Facts.


Goodbye.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#1263 - 2015-06-13 21:54:52 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Listen, Facts, I'm going to need you to step into my office for a few minutes. We need to talk.

You've not been a good team player for a while, Facts. And although I have nothing against you people - verifiable data - in general, I'm afraid you just don't fit in with the culture here.

We're letting you go, Facts.


Goodbye.



rofl, Facts says..

"fine I was ready to leave anyway this culture wasn't ever paying attention regardless of the effort of Mr.Facts"
Riot is always hiring..
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#1264 - 2015-06-13 22:20:32 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Listen, Facts, I'm going to need you to step into my office for a few minutes. We need to talk.

You've not been a good team player for a while, Facts. And although I have nothing against you people - verifiable data - in general, I'm afraid you just don't fit in with the culture here.

We're letting you go, Facts.


Goodbye.


As all systems, CCP have its own built in quirks. And a serious one is about who is to blame for retention.

Fact A: most players do PvE, most players play alone, most players stay in highsec, most players quit sooner than later.
Fact B: fewer players do PvP, fewer players gang together, fewer players leave highsec, fewer players stay for long tenures.

CCP reads that as "we should help players A to become like players B; we are making a bad job for letting players become A rather than B"

That is: what is wrong it's the players who do A rather than B. CCP is right, their customers are wrong.

I just suggest a different read of the same facts.

Fact A: most players do PvE, most players play alone, most players stay in highsec, most players quit sooner than later.
Fact B: fewer players do PvP, fewer players gang together, fewer players leave highsec, fewer players stay for long tenures.

I read that as "Content A is so terrible that players A quit a lot more than players B; CCP should improve content A to better retain those players"

That is: what's wrong is that content A is worst than content B. And CCP is the one to blame as it's them who provide the frame of the sandbox. CCP determines what fits in and what is left out.

It is cool to think of your customers as Gedeon's army: only a few are the chosen and you're so damn proud of them! But alas!, the guys who pay your checks are the ones who do stuff like rescuing the damsel for the 1,000th time... and you couldn't care less of them.

Why, CCP?

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1265 - 2015-06-13 22:26:21 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

I read that as "Content A is so terrible that players A quit a lot more than players B; CCP should improve content A to better retain those players"


Except that CCP has already pushed people in the direction of A for nearly a decade now. So instead of trying anything different and giving some incentive to B for once, you are suggesting that they double down on A, a known failure.

And the rest of us think you're nuts.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#1266 - 2015-06-13 22:35:41 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

I read that as "Content A is so terrible that players A quit a lot more than players B; CCP should improve content A to better retain those players"


Except that CCP has already pushed people in the direction of A for nearly a decade now. So instead of trying anything different and giving some incentive to B for once, you are suggesting that they double down on A, a known failure.

And the rest of us think you're nuts.



Pushed people into High Sec? Pushed people into PVE? How, by giving us a couple thousand 0.0 systems with no local? Or by adding two low-sec regions? By overhauling Sov and super capitals twice?

Was it the PVE in the form of upgraded 0.0 system indexes you speak of? Or was it the removal of unprobe-able Tengu? Was it the addition of Incursions which must be done in large groups? Perhaps you speak of the elimination of ice belts as a static location... or the exploration sites of old.

All this wrong doing towards PVPer's out there, the golden parachute for PVE has opened. What are you still doing here?

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1267 - 2015-06-13 22:37:56 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Pushed people into PVE?


That one, particularly in the area in which new players start the game. And it's been proven to be a strategy to get people to unsub.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#1268 - 2015-06-13 22:48:13 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Pushed people into PVE?


That one, particularly in the area in which new players start the game. And it's been proven to be a strategy to get people to unsub.



We should start players in Goons right off the bat? Probably give them enough isk to be worth taking advantage of too.

The most important stat you don't have, because CCP never asked, was of the 3% or so that said they were ganked in high sec in their first month, how many of those people unsubbed?

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1269 - 2015-06-13 22:50:38 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

We should start players in Goons right off the bat?


Talk about tinfoil. Is that what you've been ranting about through all of this, "Grr Goons"?

Get over yourself.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#1270 - 2015-06-13 22:52:40 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

We should start players in Goons right off the bat?


Talk about tinfoil. Is that what you've been ranting about through all of this, "Grr Goons"?

Get over yourself.



The topic is that way --->

Nice sidestep.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1271 - 2015-06-13 22:53:50 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

The topic is that way --->


You wouldn't know, you're just here ranting about Goons, apparently.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
DrSmegma
Smegma United
#1272 - 2015-06-13 22:54:11 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

I read that as "Content A is so terrible that players A quit a lot more than players B; CCP should improve content A to better retain those players"


Except that CCP has already pushed people in the direction of A for nearly a decade now. So instead of trying anything different and giving some incentive to B for once, you are suggesting that they double down on A, a known failure.

And the rest of us think you're nuts.


Haa haa you spent a decade of your life on a computer game.

Eve too complicated? Try Astrum Regatta.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#1273 - 2015-06-13 22:58:02 UTC
DrSmegma wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

I read that as "Content A is so terrible that players A quit a lot more than players B; CCP should improve content A to better retain those players"


Except that CCP has already pushed people in the direction of A for nearly a decade now. So instead of trying anything different and giving some incentive to B for once, you are suggesting that they double down on A, a known failure.

And the rest of us think you're nuts.


Haa haa you spent a decade of your life on a computer game.



He spent a decade of his life in a video game that was apparently catering only to the kinds of players he has a psychotic disposition to hate... which is more sad.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#1274 - 2015-06-13 23:03:50 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
... my point was that highsec PvErs are 50% of the subscribers. Without their money CCP would be in quite a tough place.
Didn't you claim it was 62% a while back?, You couldn't prove that claim and you can't prove this claim either.

Still waiting on your in depth analysis and presentation supporting your claims, hoping for graphs too.


Oh my, aren't you slow learning? The evidence hs been provided two, or maybe three times already.

Here you have it straight from the horse's mouth:

https://youtu.be/gJlNGtXts_E?t=21m20s

"Professionals" (do everything): 30%
"Entrepreneurs" (do everything but PvP): 25%
"Agressors" (only do PvP and socialize): 8%
"Socials" (they mostly socialize and skillqueue online): 12%
"Traditionals" (They PvE and play EVE as a traditional MMO): 25%

25% +25% =50% of players who mostly do PvE. +12% who mostly chat and skillqueue online, that's 62% of players who barely PvP.

Bonus, on where are characters logged in:

https://twitter.com/CCPQuant/status/590854488405192704/photo/1


To be completely fair - entrepreneurs engage in PvP. Smile

...And they all crave one thing - ISK. ¤

[WTS] ME10 / TE20 BPOs from Battleships/Cruisers to Fighters, Carriers, Triage/Siege, XL modules & Cap Components
Marsha Mallow
#1275 - 2015-06-13 23:04:10 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Burbling about retention to promote solo grinding whilst moaning about how boring solo grinding is, and will always be, because it's boring and grindy and solo and pointless in an MMO


Fact A: 97% of EvE players are male and whilst you have my sympathies, that can't be fixed. Best to just pretend to listen and mumble 'yes dear' occasionally. CCP do this very well with the playerbase, especially when you all start leaping about in outrage.
Fact B: CCP claims something like 60% of the EvE playerbase are IT professionals of some sort (can't be arsed digging up the source, but it's no shock really) which justifies hating everybody equally. It's useful in some respects to have these people in the community, but let's face it, they are turbo nerds who are probably used to having their head rammed down a toilet and they have the social skill of ROCKS. Might explain the mining fetish.
Fact C: The rest of us deal with exposure to these people with copious amounts of alcohol, drugs and pretending to be AFK whilst badposting on forums, or cavorting in the garden. Really, we're the victims here, but we can take it. Dunno what the rest of you are moaning about.

There's no content that will fix these things by the way. It's not CCP, or the game, it's you. We need more women ingame, more diversity in terms of background across the playerbase, some fit men, and maybe a bit more maturity. One thing I notice in monitoring how EvE has changed over time is that older players (I mean RL older) are withdrawing from interraction on the forums in particular because it's just so pathetic. Which is annoying in some ways because core Goon posters are actually worth reading, but they seem to have been the vanguard for an autistic tier of the internet which any online community would struggle to deal with. This needs to be addressed, somehow. We also need to be able to yank new players out of the highsec hellhole asap so they don't turn into someone wailing about being forced to run the damsel for the 1000th time. Or just remove highsec and try something more radical to get people started.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1276 - 2015-06-13 23:04:53 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
DrSmegma wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

I read that as "Content A is so terrible that players A quit a lot more than players B; CCP should improve content A to better retain those players"


Except that CCP has already pushed people in the direction of A for nearly a decade now. So instead of trying anything different and giving some incentive to B for once, you are suggesting that they double down on A, a known failure.

And the rest of us think you're nuts.


Haa haa you spent a decade of your life on a computer game.



He spent a decade of his life in a video game that was apparently catering only to the kinds of players he has a psychotic disposition to hate... which is more sad.

Maybe he just NEEDs to have such people IN THE GAME so he can do something to them? Maybe it makes his RL better?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1277 - 2015-06-13 23:08:23 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Pushed people into PVE?


That one, particularly in the area in which new players start the game. And it's been proven to be a strategy to get people to unsub.

Not really. The data there said "richer experiences". There should be "richer PVE experiences".
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1278 - 2015-06-13 23:08:27 UTC
March rabbit wrote:

Maybe he just NEEDs to have such people IN THE GAME so he can do something to them? Maybe it makes his RL better?


No game needs people who dedicate themselves to crying about the rules they agreed to.

If it were board game night at my house, anyone who acted like the average miner would be tossed out inside half an hour. Because among adults, taking someone's Monopoly money during a game is not something worth pitching a fit about, least of all spewing death threats filled with racial slurs(a favorite of the mining population).

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1279 - 2015-06-13 23:16:16 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Pushed people into PVE?


That one, particularly in the area in which new players start the game. And it's been proven to be a strategy to get people to unsub.

Not really. The data there said "richer experiences". There should be "richer PVE experiences".


That's an oxymoron. No matter how much of a song and dance they make, or how much dev time they waste on it, every raid in WoW just amounts to the same thing. Figure out the computer's pattern, and exploit it. And once the first guy does so and posts it online, that content is instantly trivial.

Which is precisely what happened with burner rats, the latest forray into PvE "content".

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1280 - 2015-06-13 23:20:13 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
March rabbit wrote:

Maybe he just NEEDs to have such people IN THE GAME so he can do something to them? Maybe it makes his RL better?


No game needs people who dedicate themselves to crying about the rules they agreed to.

If it were board game night at my house, anyone who acted like the average miner would be tossed out inside half an hour. Because among adults, taking someone's Monopoly money during a game is not something worth pitching a fit about, least of all spewing death threats filled with racial slurs(a favorite of the mining population).

Its a shame you spend more time on the forums whining bout those rules than playing in the game. nd don't try to make other look bad, they have been playing with what you admittedly said, a "sociopath".