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Carnyx release - General feedback

First post First post First post
Author
Qicia
Mercurialis Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#921 - 2015-06-04 04:06:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Qicia
Final Continuation of shared opinion a bit more reactive:

Quote:

Jared Tobin
Bloodstone Industries
B.S.I.
OVERVIEW ICON FEEDBACK:

The immediate impression (not meant as "destructive" but honestly what went through my mind at first use):

Is it a stargate or a freighter?
Wait, stargate is filled, or is that an oblonged planet symbol glitch?
Is that a frigate or a squadron fleet booster icon symbol near me?
Wait, another frigate now looks like the old depot symbol, but completely different from the other frigate... or wait.. what is that?
Getting to our POS, suddenly a whole new slew of questions and pauses literally came into view:
Is it a secure can or a laser battery now?
Why do POS arrays and labs look so completely different from each other symbol-wise (honestly, I'm feeling a bit arcade-nostalgic: is it a "squiggly jellyfish" or an "open frog mouth" in an 8-bit arcade game)?

Then it kept hitting me: I have this weird feeling like I'm playing Pac-Man's and Frogger's love-child.

I couldn't get it out of my mind... And then I had my serious afterthoughts before constructing this feedback (for now):

Those questions waxing nostalgic in my mind (above) are examples of the many differentiating issues that went through my head continuously with what also seemed like a "lack of cohesion" to a basic build off an attempted idea of an "Overview overhaul".

However, it wasn't (and still isn't) making a lot of "connective/logical" sense. I suddenly became aware I was spending more time trying to figure out "what is what" in space rather than playing the game and "adjusting" - the oh so unthoughtfully unproductive response some have given conveyed with "oh you'll adjust" or "people don't like change" that some have responded with.

And THAT was clencher: "It isn't making sense". It didn't become "past tense".
"What IS what?" continued with each system jump, each movement, each destination arrived at. Just when I thought I was getting some idea of "intent" of iconography, something else passed by me, or popped up in the Overview that continued my quandry.

If there was a "method to the madness" iconographic approach, then I had hoped I'd have understood it after a few system jumps/routine activity testing. But after 3 hours, I still wasn't adjusting. It became clear in my mind that this new set of symbols lacked cohesion/sense.

Example: Previously, a "bracket" rectangle with someone's name gave my brain an understanding that I was near a ship, and the shape/size of that simple bracket gave me a quick idea of relative size of that ship.. and I knew immediately it was a player's ship, not an NPC ship. Now, however, everything is not as it seems, and I wasn't even in a heavily populated system. Hell, it may have been a glitch, but I passed by two frigates: each one had DIFFERENT symbols. So just when I thought I understood "size", I failed. Then a freighter went by, and I didn't think "oh, another ship"... That was hinting to a problem for ship iconography. Also it hinted at a problem of consistancy.

Then the issue of objects other than ships came into the mix. The "method to the madness" was not obvious at all:
If "solid" objects are "shaded"/"filled" symbols like planets, stations, and even the odd "pebble" like icon of an asteroid belt, then my brain asked the next logical question: Why are stargates shaded? Are they oval planets- wait, no, the aroow, but.. And then I questioned: why are Customs Offices and POS towers "hollow" (unshaded) squares? Even the labs, arrays and refineries (which are logically "solid" objects in space) are hollow, not shaded. They also may all be POS modules in orbit around a tower, but there is no shape-cohesion to make "sense" of. ("Is that a refinery or a hollow magnet?", seriously was a visual question my brain was flip-flopping back and forth on. Seriously.)

The lack of consistency is definitely something that should be re-addressed. After all, if your symbol for navigation to "warp to and jump through" a stargate icon is an arrow going through a HOLLOW, perfect CIRCLE, but the symbol for the stargate in the Overview just below those options is not a perfect circle AND it also is shaded, then something needs to be addressed on consistency. I do not look forward to seeing the various ship shapes and other symbols I'll have to sort out on a mission or when I visit a system like Jita, but if I feel that way already, the mental hesitation marks will remain indelible until some changes are made.

If a reverted "simple" bracket system and correction to the stargate and POS/outpost symbols are re-visited, re-addressed and redesigned - along with some color changes or options implemented (I was not able to determine an untouched from a touched wreck/can, for example), then perhaps this change would not be so jarring and continually affective to my visual assessment to gameplay every new relocation. And yes, if one reads this sentence correctly: It is possible that the Overview of the game can be "continually affective" and jarring to me now, in its current state, and therefore be "ineffective" to me the entire time I am not docked.



Initially I undocked from jita while reading all the shocker replies in here hoping to get a view of the majority and than see for myself.

I noticed that yes this would take some time for the brain to get used to and get to the point of quick glance response times when leading a fleet but as i've previously quoted this isn't the case. Almost 10 years in the game and with this change it seems like most of what I'm looking at is different sized incomplete shapes that override the use and hard work of the ship skins and overview tab selections.

Having a UI icon change that basically copies the old school space invaders game isn't what you want. Atleast the old icon setup was original and wasn't referenced and now seen as another game other than just EVE.


Q
Grogidubnus
Monkey Steals The Peach
#922 - 2015-06-04 04:15:25 UTC
Whoever pushed for, and designed the overview icons, go ahead and fire them. Next time, ask the players if we want you to ruin an aspect of this game. Whoever designed these overview icons obviously doesn't play, and is probably an art school failure. Give us the option to decide which icon pack we want to use for our overviews at the very least. Also, give us the option to delete the garbage Beta Map from our game directories. I don't even want that trash taking up space on my hard drive.

Absolute fail. I actually feel embarrassed for you.

CCP's motto: If it ain't broke, fix it till it is.
Qicia
Mercurialis Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#923 - 2015-06-04 04:17:00 UTC
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#924 - 2015-06-04 04:21:09 UTC
Creep Behind wrote:
Biggest example I can give is when your in a fleet fight. As everyone knows, when using the old icons, the bigger the "box" was the higher class ship it was. Frig- smallest box, Cap- biggest box. When using the icons as the filter on your overview it would put either the biggest box or smallest box at the top of your overview list, making it easier for an individual in small gang fleets to recognize what might be the enemies "tackle" (frig - small boxes) and what might be there "primary DPS" (battle ships - big boxes). With the new icons, we have lost the ability to do this because they don't fallow the same filter.

I know it's not the same as having a properly working overview, but I have had some success with widening my overview some more and adding in the "size" column. It's not perfect by any means, but it may help you recover some of the previous functionality until it gets fixed/reverted.

I'm mostly playing with the brackets off now too and having to spend more time looking at my overview and less time looking at the space scene, which I'm fairly sure is the opposite direction to the one we are supposed to be heading in. I thought hiding brackets was going to be a thing of the past when I upgraded my PC earlier this year, but unfortunately not.
Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#925 - 2015-06-04 04:36:39 UTC
Since this seems like the Icons thread...

Like:
Ship icons
POS batteries
Frozen Corpse

Meh (could live with):
POS modules
Celestials

Dislike:
Wrecks are horrid
Drones wtf?
Everything else.

If it is all-or-nothing, I choose the old icons.

-1 for too much change all at once.
Undocking = fatigue.
Vila eNorvic
#926 - 2015-06-04 04:38:55 UTC
Qicia wrote:
http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/2uSgE3niC8SII8wmGUkSgM/8984203842d475c24c86e0cb2419698c/NewOverviewBrackets_Legend.png

Here is the complete new icon list.

Thanks, but all I see there is a little black square with a white cross in it. (Same as the two links posted previously.)
Lara Divinity
Pidgeon Cartel
#927 - 2015-06-04 05:04:41 UTC
call to arms destroy jita for the return of classic icons
major uprising only seem to get attention and response in this game
Taramada
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#928 - 2015-06-04 05:43:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Taramada
So, here is a refreshing question:

When playing dress up my dolly, I noticed that the Women 's 'Hover' Tights are only UNDER garments. Interesting as they would serve as pants/tights to go under a dress. Adding shoes .... well looks like a woman in a dress with different colored tights/legs. Why can't I do that? Why are they regulated to be under pants. Example Rocket Dress plus Hover Tights and shoes...done, but it is not so.

Icon ISSUE: Well, honestly the old system was just fine, it is not that I dislike learning new things, I just dislike having to learn lame new things. Please give us an option like the map to go back to the old vies.

Thanks
Captain Semper
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#929 - 2015-06-04 05:44:05 UTC
Lara Divinity wrote:
call to arms destroy jita for the return of classic icons
major uprising only seem to get attention and response in this game

Waegen Hoerford
The Fyrd
Silent Infinity
#930 - 2015-06-04 05:55:46 UTC
I like the new icons, will take a bit of getting use to, but I think it's easier to discern ship classes than the old crosses (esp frigs and dessies),
E6o5
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#931 - 2015-06-04 06:00:29 UTC
logged in, undocked, still saw those ****** monopoly icons ins space, logged out
Koba Kyogen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#932 - 2015-06-04 06:06:11 UTC
Real Feedback:

The new icons make it harder, not easier, to figure out whether to take a fight or not. It was easier to gauge a fight based on the size of the old icons. Sure, you'd have to clarify by glancing at the name of your target to figure out how to fight it etc.

But... the simplicity of the old system can't be overlooked. Having a limited range of symbols, representing a relative size and toughness, was useful. Variety might not always be better?

I think some of it might still be an adjustment of mental/visual cues and such - but I do think the classic system would be better long run. I think people will simply adapt and read names in their overview tabs first, largely overlooking the over-thought icons.

Run with it, and please - consider going back to a "relative size" system. The variety is in the available ship types/setups, not in the way they're represented on an overview column.


Koba
PANZER1233000
Monkey Attack Squad
Goonswarm Federation
#933 - 2015-06-04 06:10:38 UTC
General feed back from rus com.

Original topic from http://forum.eve-ru.com/index.php?showtopic=113538&page=7#entry3072769

Phew, I spent half a day, but still wrote his thoughts.

Strange that I'm trying to explain to people the truths that are professional, kind of like, engaged in the development of computer games. Although it was not written for them, they are unlikely to read and take note ...

Let's start from the beginning - from the existence of the word "visualization". Izdrevna man tried to visualize the mess, which was packed with his head. He drew maps and wrote lists and sketching diagrams, sketches and drawings, charts and graphs. All this is just to visualize and depict what is available, what he logically arrived. And characteristically, he guessed not draw stopyatsot conventional icons, he expanded the significance of each icon and came to refer to it is not exactly a particular action, but only to point to belong to a certain group of sense. The man at the dawn of its existence gradually passed from hieroglyphics to alphabetic characters. And the alphabet, offers several great level of abstraction produces a much larger amount of information. However, the text is not a panacea. Probably because 90% of the information people receive through vision and images. And the vision is the fastest and most flexible provider of information about the world.

The same conclusion was reached by our contemporaries. All the breakthroughs in the field of the computer connected with the presentation of information in a user-friendly way - as schematically indicated some action. So there were the "roll", "expand" and "close" to the windows and Makos, icons for iphone and tablets, website and dashboards. And then there was the concept of "UI modernization" of the CCP. Frankly, I do not know who owns the idea of ​​"innovation", and do not want to know, but for the future of eve-online and CCP would be very desirable to throw them into the cold, and quickly, even if they work for polzarplaty. Man wants to see as much information conveniently and individually assembled and located in a certain place of the workspace. And do not want every time to start to establish your "desktop" from scratch, restoring communication and head anew peretryahivaya familiar piece. But this is what was done. You are forced to force users to give up the idea of ​​"generalized signs" in favor of some sort of idiotic concept that long ago buried all able to look at things sensibly. It runs counter to all the concepts of progressive user interface, pretending that everything is simple zashib - top short-sightedness. And this folly will destroy you in the end.

Strictly speaking, the short-sightedness at the CCP has deeper roots. It is expressed in the boundless greed and excessive pride. After all, most recently by the standards of the game world was Incarna. Everything has been forgotten? And it was the greed and arrogance, have given rise Incarna and the events that followed. "Greed - it's good?" No, stingy always pays twice. You once paid twice (or even three) for Incarna. Now ponabirali ad for "cheap game designers" and "specialists to work with the community"? But the employees' competence has never been and will not be cheap. And this is your "UI modernization" - a clear result of savings of qualified personnel.

But pride ... pride will not allow you to admit that you spend time on this crap you throw in the trash. Already we are thrown. It is a fait accompli. You'll cling to it (this crap) until recently. If you remember, just as was the case with "new icons tools developed by our leading designers" who were more like dried-up ****. And if not then-outcry Incarna, they would have "decorated" interface so far. Only a paroxysm of self-flagellation Hilmar totally insincere, by the way, was able to pull them down the toilet, and came back ... the old interface icons.
And this brings us to the climax of pride - to work with the community. I will not speak for the English-speaking, everything is a bit different, but work with community-ru - a poster "Do not do that ever!" Billboards, like pride destroys all the fruit on the vine, which can give the tree of mutual interest. But even Mohammed realized that the mountain will not come to him ever, and he'll have to shove the mountain. But who is Mohammed, if the old Russian tradition of "I - Head, you - fool". Here sits the proud chief of Communication on its offorume, talking to himself. There is no one else but him, a couple of newbies, but the losers who do not prizhidis on ivrukome because of their narrow-mindedness. But if he is really interested to see, hear and draw conclusions, he would not wait until the community itself will come to him. No, the community will not come to him, he does not need a community, the community looks at it as a ****. And he will not come here. Pride will not. And the opinion of the community about the "new interface" is not heard and the conclusions will not. And then ... and then everything will be even worse. And it gets worse, while again not break the abscess does not stand on its hind legs users not unsubscribe, and the corn zalagayut remaining, shooting monument.
MarkedOne What'sFamily
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#934 - 2015-06-04 06:13:08 UTC
Icons need a bit of improvement. BUT some of them are pretty goodBlink. Ive noticed that when reloading guns and locking onto or firing guns onto a target; There is a 2-3sec delay before it proceeds to lockon; reload or fire. So far no crashes or BSOD's but sounds like i got lucky.

thnks
Captain Semper
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#935 - 2015-06-04 06:38:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Semper
PANZER1233000 wrote:
General feed back from rus com.

Original topic from http://forum.eve-ru.com/index.php?showtopic=113538&page=7#entry3072769

Phew, I spent half a day, but still wrote his thoughts.
...

Guys it was a joke with google trabslate. I could not imagine that somebody post this.
But if you undetstand this... Well... :)
Meque
#936 - 2015-06-04 07:04:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Meque
For some reason the launcher is now using 80-90% on one of my cpu cores, and it makes my cpu fan go nuts. Why does the launcher need 3.2 Ghz?

Congratulations on breaking the launcher even more CCP.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#937 - 2015-06-04 07:07:11 UTC
Just ran a fleet with plenty of entosis action, would definitely welcome a way to see a numerical timer for each service circle. It was a bit difficult to match our final cycles with the proper times. Lots of geusswork used.
AngelFood
#938 - 2015-06-04 07:13:45 UTC
The new icons look like they were designed on a commodore 64 or a zx spectrum.
The ideal of the new icons is flawed also:
The ship icons would probably work except for the light shading being the only distinguishing difference from npc to players is not enough.
Players icons should be much more unique, as unique as they used to be in fact, which was subtle but totally unique. I mean, there is no other game ever I remember where I couldn't tell the difference between an npc and a player it's ridiculous and critical in a pvp game.
Aeon Veritas
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#939 - 2015-06-04 07:26:00 UTC
Yesterday I did again a little PVE and I am still the opinion that the idea of new icons is nice, but there is room for improvement.
Aeon Veritas wrote:
Yesterday I did a Little PVE and I have to say those new icons are not as self explaining as the old ones....
I confused on an regular basis BC with BS because the icons for BC look bigger.
Lyta Jhonson wrote:
+1 for this solution!
The hierarchy shown in above picture is ihmo far better to understand intuitively than the actual.

CCP Surge wrote:
#423
Porucznik Borewicz wrote:
TL;DR: Let me change the player controlled ships icons colour and it will be much better.


Hey, thanks for sharing your experience. And keeping in mind color blindness :) I agree NPC distinction is rather nuanced with the new icon set - NPC icons have a faint inner fill compared to players ships.

We also color hostile NPCs red by default, but we don't allow players to change this, or set any color for the icons themselves besides background and colortags.

Anyone else think a custom "icon color" would be a good option to expose to aid in situational awareness?
While I personaly think there is no need to change the color of the icons, you maybe should consider to complete fill the inner of the icons for NPC.
NPC = solid red icons would be nice. That way they have the same size information as player icons and are easy to distinguish from them.

Another thing people already mentioned is "less is more". I think this hits especially for the structures.
Maybe you should consider only one Icon for structures and differentiate them with letters for their size (S-M-L-XL).
Sov-related structures should be excluded from that, i think they are fine now.
With so may different icons for the structrues ist like you implemented for every ship a own Icon. it's plain not necessary.
For the ships now we can see "Oh, look. it's a frig. Let's take a closer look which one it is". but like every structure got tis own icon?
And please think for the future, soo many sutructures you want to add to the game...

CCP Surge wrote:
#411
  • I urge patience. There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely.
  • At least: please, please, pretty please don't confuse "get used to" with "like it". It's like you can get used to high gas prices, but you still don't like it...
    DHuncan
    Hoplite Brigade
    Ushra'Khan
    #940 - 2015-06-04 07:44:19 UTC
    Now how the ship is not in center ? Very annoying.

    What did you say about CODE?