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The Shrinking Sandbox - Eve by numbers

First post First post First post
Author
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#621 - 2015-05-14 08:47:08 UTC
i still cant get over that these guys at ccp think blowing up stations where folks have lived for years and earned their assets should be vulnerable.. just cause the big guys want targets and more things to shoot at besides everyone else to shoot at..


and they honestly believe this kind of war fare is going to keep players around.. so what happens when they end up driving off the rest of the players.. they'll have no one to shoot at and will turn all targets on making high sec a living hell.

watch, wait and see... you guys know this will happen..


so shut up and pay your money to be bullied.. will be the next marketing campaign..


remember you can be the villain or the good guy.. oops the good guys left the game so be the one and only bad guy in a room by himself.

can eve online even manage to reach 1 million active players online?? i doubt so.. there's so much room in new eden for them.. but welp you pushed them away.. you have empty swaths of space which proves even more you were more delusional in your sub numbers.. you built it., they came.. and they left..



0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#622 - 2015-05-14 08:54:43 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
0bama Barack ******* wrote:
And actually, majority of stars in real Milky Way and in ED are RED(ish, counting purple).

90% of all stars are of the same type of ours ...
... but you are right ! My bad!

And Sol is actually white, not yellow.
Let's tell our children to draw a white sun onto the paper. :/

Doesn't change that when ever I cruised around E:D ...
... I encountered stars like ours. All the time.

Boring ****.

http://www.universetoday.com/24299/types-of-stars/
http://www.space.com/22437-main-sequence-stars.html
http://www.universetoday.com/18689/color-of-the-sun/



Maybe you should try to do something more than just "cruise around" ? Big smile
Or did you mean exploring? Smile


Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Include numbers of bots banned ... data is available ...
... and don't forget MCT which they invited knowing people will consolidate accounts.

Averages... they smell. Averages of PCU smell even more,
because they completely ignore timezones.


TQ population consistently peaks around 18:00 GMT of sundays. Unless the peak shifts to another day and/or hour, comparing those peaks allows to determine change and tis direction.

Also as I already said: bots pay accounts, banned bots don't = CCP losses revenue. Also Alts don't stay logged in long enough to impact PCU = MCTs have little effect in PCU trends.

Twist it as you want it, EVE is a smaller game now than in 2011, and it's shrinking despite all efforts to keep the population up. Without those efforts it would sink like a rock.

Also, I suggest you to consider CCP's latest move to conceal its real situation, since they bought back their publicly traded bonds and now, not being a publicly traded company, they are not obliged to publish their financial reports. And guess what? THEY HAVE REMOVED THAT INFORMATION FROM THEIR WEBSITE.

This is how bloody well are going things for CCP, since they spent ~4.5 million $ to conceal their financials from public scrutiny.

And now let's move back to how ecstatic are the 62% with CCP's new PvP structures and how long are the queues of new players trampling each other in their passion to become owners of a Citadel or whatever the f*ck CCP releases later.


Biggest of my fears told here, alpha gunned with clean shot.
Nevase Prometeus
Fuel Blocks for Dante
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#623 - 2015-05-14 09:47:41 UTC
Important question.

Which kind pf players that had quit EVE most ?

-PVP players

-PVE players

Why that they leave ?

-PVP boring no newbie to kill

-PVE don't want to be bullied

CCP might find balance that both PVP and PVE players still had contents to play. Make system that PVP still out there and had battlefield that they want . Make PVE players have fun for their contents and storyline without or concern for got kill or bullied easily.

EVE is like sea or chains of foods . PVE is like preys and all preys die , all predator die too . So this sea will be lifeless.
Navy Jackal
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#624 - 2015-05-14 10:03:41 UTC
Other PvP games offer match making of some kind. And instant combat opportunities, when you do not need to roam for hours to find appropriate target. Other PvE games offer more different content. Eve have potential to bit them all, but that would require
1. For PvP - some form of Drifters arena, where drifter will ensure you will get battle with equally fitted opponent without links, hidden remote reper etc...
2. For PvE - more space, more different missions, more celestial objects, more story line etc...
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#625 - 2015-05-14 10:13:43 UTC  |  Edited by: 0bama Barack Hussein
Nevase Prometeus wrote:

EVE is like sea or chains of foods . PVE is like preys and all preys die , all predator die too . So this sea will be lifeless.


CCP has made it pretty clear they want more people "on action", to keep them not getting bored. And I guess, concider high sec already safe enough.

Sure, rewards compared to (ganking) risk in high sec should/could be higher, but then low and null sec should have even better rewards.

As I said earlier, if you definitely want separate PVE/Solo action (and change to "Open" when feeling strong and rich enough to kill others), guess you need to try other (space) games (like ED i mentioned, dont know if SC will have pve/solo play).

But separate PVE/solo (groups) in EvE?
NEVER gonna happen, so you can just stop trolling that, too much in conflict with everything EvE is about and based at....
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#626 - 2015-05-14 10:18:39 UTC
Navy Jackal wrote:
Other PvP games offer match making of some kind. And instant combat opportunities, when you do not need to roam for hours to find appropriate target. Other PvE games offer more different content. Eve have potential to bit them all, but that would require
1. For PvP - some form of Drifters arena, where drifter will ensure you will get battle with equally fitted opponent without links, hidden remote reper etc...
2. For PvE - more space, more different missions, more celestial objects, more story line etc...


well that sounds poopy

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Nevase Prometeus
Fuel Blocks for Dante
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#627 - 2015-05-14 10:21:08 UTC
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
Nevase Prometeus wrote:

EVE is like sea or chains of foods . PVE is like preys and all preys die , all predator die too . So this sea will be lifeless.


CCP has made it pretty clear they want more people "on action", to keep them not getting bored. And I guess, concider high sec already safe enough.

Sure, rewards compared to (ganking) risk in high sec should/could be higher, but then low and null sec should have even better rewards.

As I said earlier, if you definitely want separate PVE/Solo action (and change to "Open" when feeling strong and rich enough to kill others), guess you need to try other (space) games (like ED i mentioned, dont know if SC will have pve/solo play).

But separate PVE/solo (groups) in EvE?
NEVER gonna happen, so you can just stop trolling that, too much in conflict with everything EvE is about and based at....


I'm sorry if my poor english grammar offence anyone without my intention.

I'm just explain my opinion . In my view it is not trolling and I would have open mind to anothers player's opionion with respect.
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#628 - 2015-05-14 10:27:11 UTC  |  Edited by: 0bama Barack Hussein
Nevase Prometeus wrote:
0bama Barack ******* wrote:
Nevase Prometeus wrote:

EVE is like sea or chains of foods . PVE is like preys and all preys die , all predator die too . So this sea will be lifeless.


CCP has made it pretty clear they want more people "on action", to keep them not getting bored. And I guess, concider high sec already safe enough.

Sure, rewards compared to (ganking) risk in high sec should/could be higher, but then low and null sec should have even better rewards.

As I said earlier, if you definitely want separate PVE/Solo action (and change to "Open" when feeling strong and rich enough to kill others), guess you need to try other (space) games (like ED i mentioned, dont know if SC will have pve/solo play).

But separate PVE/solo (groups) in EvE?
NEVER gonna happen, so you can just stop trolling that, too much in conflict with everything EvE is about and based at....


I'm sorry if my poor english grammar offence anyone without my intention.

I'm just explain my opinion . In my view it is not trolling and I would have open mind to anothers player's opionion with respect.


Sorry, not accusing you of trolling or being a troll, just that whole subject is "non-issue", EvE will always be PVP game and lousy PVE game, and so it is intended.
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#629 - 2015-05-14 10:56:36 UTC  |  Edited by: La Rynx
Sweet!

Another one who knows what was intended by the Developers...

The main intentention has always been to create a spaceship game where people have fun and subscribe.
From this point can be made some deductions:
Small dev crew, so creating content is difficult. Define game as Sandbox and pvp and watch was happens...

The discussions in the forums got boring or anoying.
Get more players and have them stay?
Counter "risk aversity"?
Second argument is one of the most stupid and hyprocritic argument. Everyone who wants to win, will minimize his own risk. So every player does it and this argument is so dead, there is no horse enough to sit on.

Get more players for eve as it is like now?
Newb players do not want to be cannonfodder for the older ones. Its as easy as that. PvP games dwell always better, if those pathetic strong longplayers can not fight the weaker ones.
Wannabe toughies have their next pathetic argument: When is a new player not "new" anymore? And the most have already answers like "4 weeks" or "the test period bevor subscription. This is not "tough" HTFU answer. It shows how pathetic those players are. They stick and insist on killing the rookies!
Why?
Only one answer that i think is true: Those players are the most incompetent players, take the newbie kills away and there will be no kills for them at all.

Another Problem in EvE:
The lack of respect of others and their playstyle. Lots of players like spaceship games, some would even cope with a dark difficult game. But a game where "schadenfreude", resentment, gleefullness is all around you will always be a niche game.

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."

La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#630 - 2015-05-14 11:06:25 UTC  |  Edited by: La Rynx
Another thing:
PvP misses somehow some progression.
Most PvP players fly frigates?
Feels wrong for me. This would explain why some rookies fail:
Even if one plays longer, one on one PvP want happen with bigger ships.

Bigger ships are useful for PvP in 0sec forceprojection.
Anywhere else?
PvE! Missions.
But some want to play with bigger ships without spending hours to prepare for a fight.

Some things in EvE are severly stuck.

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."

0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#631 - 2015-05-14 13:33:36 UTC
La Rynx wrote:
Sweet!

Another one who knows what was intended by the Developers... .


Just repeating what has been message from CCP last 6 years about I have played...
They want us to team up (they also obviously wish most would move to low/null secs), no matter what we do in our sandbox, and teaming up eventually leads to wardecks and being more likely target for some "griefer" groups.

La Rynx wrote:

Get more players for eve as it is like now?
Newb players do not want to be cannonfodder for the older ones. Its as easy as that. PvP games dwell always better, if those pathetic strong longplayers can not fight the weaker ones.


Unfortunately difference in knowing what to do and with what, skill points and isk, combined to fact that it is shared sandbox where there is NO safe place to hide, will make that impossible direction for a game with nature like EvE has.

Younger players will always have disadvantage, and high sec will be terrorised by hoards of both old and young players.

End of story.
Solecist Project
#632 - 2015-05-14 14:07:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
La Rynx is back as well.
Guess you were banned.

Well the haters can have the forums.
It's the only place of the game where they are allowed to feel important and powerfull.

While at the same time still suffering from the reality of having no influence at anyone.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Ares Desideratus
UNSAFE SPACE
#633 - 2015-05-14 15:14:30 UTC
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
Nevase Prometeus wrote:

EVE is like sea or chains of foods . PVE is like preys and all preys die , all predator die too . So this sea will be lifeless.


CCP has made it pretty clear they want more people "on action", to keep them not getting bored. And I guess, concider high sec already safe enough.

Sure, rewards compared to (ganking) risk in high sec should/could be higher, but then low and null sec should have even better rewards.

As I said earlier, if you definitely want separate PVE/Solo action (and change to "Open" when feeling strong and rich enough to kill others), guess you need to try other (space) games (like ED i mentioned, dont know if SC will have pve/solo play).

But separate PVE/solo (groups) in EvE?
NEVER gonna happen, so you can just stop trolling that, too much in conflict with everything EvE is about and based at....

I hope to freaking God that it never happens. Even if all I did was PVE I'd rather have it be fun and exciting than just a boring ass grind.
Ares Desideratus
UNSAFE SPACE
#634 - 2015-05-14 15:21:34 UTC
La Rynx wrote:
Sweet!

Another one who knows what was intended by the Developers...

The main intentention has always been to create a spaceship game where people have fun and subscribe.
From this point can be made some deductions:
Small dev crew, so creating content is difficult. Define game as Sandbox and pvp and watch was happens...

The discussions in the forums got boring or anoying.
Get more players and have them stay?
Counter "risk aversity"?
Second argument is one of the most stupid and hyprocritic argument. Everyone who wants to win, will minimize his own risk. So every player does it and this argument is so dead, there is no horse enough to sit on.

Get more players for eve as it is like now?
Newb players do not want to be cannonfodder for the older ones. Its as easy as that. PvP games dwell always better, if those pathetic strong longplayers can not fight the weaker ones.
Wannabe toughies have their next pathetic argument: When is a new player not "new" anymore? And the most have already answers like "4 weeks" or "the test period bevor subscription. This is not "tough" HTFU answer. It shows how pathetic those players are. They stick and insist on killing the rookies!
Why?
Only one answer that i think is true: Those players are the most incompetent players, take the newbie kills away and there will be no kills for them at all.

Another Problem in EvE:
The lack of respect of others and their playstyle. Lots of players like spaceship games, some would even cope with a dark difficult game. But a game where "schadenfreude", resentment, gleefullness is all around you will always be a niche game.

What's your goal? Do you want everybody to wear a uniform, act respectful, and be unable to interact with other players...
Jade Yanumano
State War Academy
Caldari State
#635 - 2015-05-14 16:13:29 UTC

I am a player that has been playing EVE since 2005. I am in agreement. I believe what CCP is trying to do is great, but the Sov changes they are putting in place regarding the sov being vulnerable for 4 to 8 hours a day is emptying null sec out a lot more. I remember CCP making a comment that EVE is in now way the representation of the way people thing or live their lives. I would prefer CCP rephrases that, because it is very untrue.

People become immersed into the game, their RL dramas left behind and their ideas and thoughts no matter how sadistic or not become part of the game.

With the new sov changes CCP Fozzie is introducing, i would say that null sec will lose even more numbers and probably already is. Generating more action is just something that is needed, with that i will agree. You can't have everyone carebear all the time and then stagnate the game to a point people quit due to boredom. There are many problems in EVE. One of many is the fact that CCP stated they trying to generate more fun fights and action in EVE, and also trying to allow smaller entities to have a piece of the pie. However, this is not the case, larger more stronger alliances are at it again. They push smaller entities to the point of simply quitting the game, as there are thousands that do not want to be in major 10k to 38k size powerblocs. They don't want to do massive fleets. They enjoy the small gang game play style.

Each time CCP makes a change they completely ignore one simple fact, a fact that has been apart of the human condition for thousands of years. That fact is, "I am a stronger caveman than you, join me or I beat you like rock". Then tie that in with the really sadistic minds of some of the people in EVE, well, that only spells bad news for any small entity. Even if its a small entity bent on trying to promote EVE and Null Sec and get more new players to join up and move to a null sec region designed to help build up the abilities of new players, so they can learn how to play the game in a different environment to high security space. Lets take Brave Collective for instance. They have lots of new players join them, teach them, show them the ropes. Some alliance are not as big as they are. Some try to show new players the fun side of a smaller scale way of having fun.

None of what CCP Fozzie has brought forward is of any interest to a new player willing to move to null sec and learn the ropes in a harder environment. At the present moment, numbers are dropping. I also get told, no, numbers are increasing and yet i don't see it. I had a GM tell me they are over 500k accounts. I really could not contain my laughter. CCP makes a big mistake relying purely on just the numbers and not the "active" numbers.

CCP states they cannot intervene nor interfere or they use the phrase, "we cannot directly affect the game". Well now, that is the funniest nonsense I have ever heard. By making certain changes to the game regarding mechanics, you are affecting the game. Due to the 4 to 8 hour timers you are implementing in the new sov changes, you directly affect the game. It forces alliances/coalitions to make every possible attempt to break up smaller entities and push them into joining a larger powerbloc and becoming nothing but a number. That is directly affecting the smaller gang game play style. I would also go as far as stating that CCP have not really changed much in terms of giving opportunities to smaller entities.

To be honest, there is a good chance CCP will lose a lot more "active" players. I myself personally have opened an account on other games like star********. LOL.

It is truly very sad that EVE has turned to this uninteresting, not fun, game. It was the biggest, best game in the world, that no one had the ability to top. Now CCP is just pushing people away, pushing the community away with some of the changes in the new upcoming patch. That has already been a dramatic drop in active players over the past 12 to 18 months. Thank you CCP for a great game, and thank you CCP Fozzie for your effort, but EVE is just no longer worth playing.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#636 - 2015-05-14 16:15:11 UTC
Stopped reading at state war academy.
Artemis Ellery Sazas
Shock and Awe Inc.
#637 - 2015-05-14 17:43:06 UTC
I don't get where CCP is going from a business stand point with this game. The whole point of a business is to make money, but CCP seems to be doing whatever they can to drive subs down. We all play EVE differently and have a different idea of what is fun and what is not.

If CCP wants to increase subs, they have to cater to the carebears that live in high sec. Make the ganking penalties much harsher, so that more players will feel safer about playing a mostly combat free game. Many just want to log on, mine some ore for an hour and log off. It doesn't matter, they still pay their sub or buy PLEX.

I think nerfing ISBoxer was a bad business decision as well. The null sec corp I was in at the time lost around 15% of it's members because they were multi-box miners. Do the math: 60 accounts x $15 x 12 months. This was only 1 small corp in all of EVE.

I predict the new null sec changes will be a disaster, along with the fact stations will become vulnerable and will drive hard core players from the game. I give it about 3-6 months to see the full results, time will tell. Even if it's not a complete disaster, I doubt many will be flocking to live in null and it will have a net negative for subs.

So it's all up to CCP, do they want a game that makes them tons of money or do they want a game that is favored by a smaller group of niche players? I really don't see how they can have both.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#638 - 2015-05-14 17:50:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Artemis Ellery Sazas wrote:
I don't get where CCP is going from a business stand point with this game. The whole point of a business is to make money, but CCP seems to be doing whatever they can to drive subs down. We all play EVE differently and have a different idea of what is fun and what is not.

If CCP wants to increase subs, they have to cater to the carebears that live in high sec. Make the ganking penalties much harsher, so that more players will feel safer about playing a mostly combat free game. Many just want to log on, mine some ore for an hour and log off. It doesn't matter, they still pay their sub or buy PLEX.

I think nerfing ISBoxer was a bad business decision as well. The null sec corp I was in at the time lost around 15% of it's members because they were multi-box miners. Do the math: 60 accounts x $15 x 12 months. This was only 1 small corp in all of EVE.

I predict the new null sec changes will be a disaster, along with the fact stations will become vulnerable and will drive hard core players from the game. I give it about 3-6 months to see the full results, time will tell. Even if it's not a complete disaster, I doubt many will be flocking to live in null and it will have a net negative for subs.

So it's all up to CCP, do they want a game that makes them tons of money or do they want a game that is favored by a smaller group of niche players? I really don't see how they can have both.



EVe should cater to carebears, and yet EVE is safer now than ever but there are fewer carebears. Sounds like some Myth# 21 stuff going on to me. Carebears think they want to be safe, but if they did they wouldn't be playing this game. Reminds me much of women I've known who swear they want a 'nice guy'...usually said while sitting behind some tatted up unemployed freak on a motorcycle who just got out of prison, probably for murdering his last girlfriend....

Basically, if anyone who is telling you they play this game to be 'comfortable' when they could be playing other games with game mechanics aimed at comfort (while this game is aimed at DIScomfort), they are lying, either to you, or to themselves. It's the dangers of the game that give the game it's flavor and meaning.

And the isboxer tripe is funny as hell. Yes CCP has a choice, a good game or a distorted isboxer friendly game.
Ares Desideratus
UNSAFE SPACE
#639 - 2015-05-14 19:02:47 UTC
Jade Yanumano wrote:

I am a player that has been playing EVE since 2005. I am in agreement. I believe what CCP is trying to do is great, but the Sov changes they are putting in place regarding the sov being vulnerable for 4 to 8 hours a day is emptying null sec out a lot more. I remember CCP making a comment that EVE is in now way the representation of the way people thing or live their lives. I would prefer CCP rephrases that, because it is very untrue.

People become immersed into the game, their RL dramas left behind and their ideas and thoughts no matter how sadistic or not become part of the game.

With the new sov changes CCP Fozzie is introducing, i would say that null sec will lose even more numbers and probably already is. Generating more action is just something that is needed, with that i will agree. You can't have everyone carebear all the time and then stagnate the game to a point people quit due to boredom. There are many problems in EVE. One of many is the fact that CCP stated they trying to generate more fun fights and action in EVE, and also trying to allow smaller entities to have a piece of the pie. However, this is not the case, larger more stronger alliances are at it again. They push smaller entities to the point of simply quitting the game, as there are thousands that do not want to be in major 10k to 38k size powerblocs. They don't want to do massive fleets. They enjoy the small gang game play style.

Each time CCP makes a change they completely ignore one simple fact, a fact that has been apart of the human condition for thousands of years. That fact is, "I am a stronger caveman than you, join me or I beat you like rock". Then tie that in with the really sadistic minds of some of the people in EVE, well, that only spells bad news for any small entity. Even if its a small entity bent on trying to promote EVE and Null Sec and get more new players to join up and move to a null sec region designed to help build up the abilities of new players, so they can learn how to play the game in a different environment to high security space. Lets take Brave Collective for instance. They have lots of new players join them, teach them, show them the ropes. Some alliance are not as big as they are. Some try to show new players the fun side of a smaller scale way of having fun.

None of what CCP Fozzie has brought forward is of any interest to a new player willing to move to null sec and learn the ropes in a harder environment. At the present moment, numbers are dropping. I also get told, no, numbers are increasing and yet i don't see it. I had a GM tell me they are over 500k accounts. I really could not contain my laughter. CCP makes a big mistake relying purely on just the numbers and not the "active" numbers.

CCP states they cannot intervene nor interfere or they use the phrase, "we cannot directly affect the game". Well now, that is the funniest nonsense I have ever heard. By making certain changes to the game regarding mechanics, you are affecting the game. Due to the 4 to 8 hour timers you are implementing in the new sov changes, you directly affect the game. It forces alliances/coalitions to make every possible attempt to break up smaller entities and push them into joining a larger powerbloc and becoming nothing but a number. That is directly affecting the smaller gang game play style. I would also go as far as stating that CCP have not really changed much in terms of giving opportunities to smaller entities.

To be honest, there is a good chance CCP will lose a lot more "active" players. I myself personally have opened an account on other games like star********. LOL.

It is truly very sad that EVE has turned to this uninteresting, not fun, game. It was the biggest, best game in the world, that no one had the ability to top. Now CCP is just pushing people away, pushing the community away with some of the changes in the new upcoming patch. That has already been a dramatic drop in active players over the past 12 to 18 months. Thank you CCP for a great game, and thank you CCP Fozzie for your effort, but EVE is just no longer worth playing.

I've been playing since 2006 and as far as I can tell Eve has always been this way. There is always strength in numbers. What are CCP supposed to do about the fact that numbers win? Give smaller groups some sort of unfair advantage? When you choose to fly solo or against larger groups in this game you choose to put yourself at a disadvantage, that's how it's always been, that's probably how it always will be.

You just brought up Brave, but then you say that new players would have no interest in Null Sec when Brave shows exactly the opposite...

I don't know anything at all about sovereignty, don't give a **** about Null Sec alliances or coalitions or anything like that, but I see nothing wrong with the big fish eating the little fish, that's just the way it works. You have to fight for what you want, it can't just get handed to you. Don't you think? But as I said I don't know anything about sovereignty mechanics so I really can't comment on that type of ****.
Melissa Redoran
#640 - 2015-05-14 19:45:17 UTC
http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

playercount stable at around ~35k since April `14

btw eve is dead