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PLEX prices getting too high

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Eldwinn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#81 - 2015-05-11 23:54:20 UTC
Ajunta Pal wrote:
The PLEX sales seem to be CCPs way of countering the inflation, to a limited extent. CCP would have to perform market manipulation if they want to control the upper limit.

Keep in mind, most people can work in RL for 3-4 hours if they want a plex - where it takes 4-16 hours in game


4 to 16 hours in game. Mate, what do you do to make your isk and why does it take so long?
Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#82 - 2015-05-12 01:44:33 UTC
So...PLEX is too high again, eh? How many billions is a PLEX up to on the Chinese server? We have seen nothing yet, I think.






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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#83 - 2015-05-12 05:40:44 UTC
My understanding is that botting is rampant on Serenity so the two situations are not really analogous.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
ImYourMom
Retribution Holdings Corp
Retribution.
#84 - 2015-05-12 06:46:12 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:
I recently returned to the game after some years away. Last time I was playing, PLEX was going for ~350-400M ISK at Jita. Now we're seeing it at 850M ISK and more. That's pretty rapid inflation. The cause of it is simple, there's too much ISK in the economy currently. I can make enough for a PLEX in 6-8 hours of ratting in null. Often even fast than that. Essentially, I can rat for a couple hours a day per week and make enough to play for free. People playing efficiently in Hi Sec can make enough for PLEX in only slightly more time than that. Of course the value of PLEX is going to explosively inflate... people can afford it without much trouble.[quote=Traejun DiSanctis]I recently returned to the game after some years away. Last time I was playing, PLEX was going for ~350-400M ISK at Jita. Now we're seeing it at 850M ISK and more. That's pretty rapid inflation. The cause of it is simple, there's too much ISK in the economy currently. I can make enough for a PLEX in 6-8 hours of ratting in null. Often even fast than that. Essentially, I can rat for a couple hours a day per week and make enough to play for free. People playing efficiently in Hi Sec can make enough for PLEX in only slightly more time than that. Of course the value of PLEX is going to explosively inflate... people can afford it without much trouble.

That said, most of the proposed solutions in this thread are not solutions at all.

IMO, fix the price of PLEX. I hate that idea, but its probably the only way to control it.


Fix the price of PLEX is fixing the symptom not the underlying cause. It is like telling somebody who is a Type II diabetic to simply reduce their blood glucose by taking their medicine. It does not treat the underlying problem (too much insulin which has led to insulin resistance). In this case, it is too much ISK flowing into the Eve economy.

The solution is rather obvious.

1. Reduce the ISK flowing into the economy.
2. Increase the ISK flowing out of the economy.

Ways to approach 1 are as follows:

A. Decrease incursion payouts.
B. Decrease rat bounties.
C. Decrease insurance payouts.
D. Decrease mission rewards.

To implement 2 some possibilities are:

E. Increase the price of BPOs.
F. Increase the price of (higher end) skill books.
G. Increase LP store prices.

Of course, none of these are terribly popular with most players.

That said, most of the proposed solutions in this thread are not solutions at all.


Are you mental?

what would drive down prices is making those better and higher now decrease them. The more ISK people make the less need to buy a plex either in game or RMT. Meaning more plex available meaning less prices. Supply > demand...

If CCP signifiicantly increased bounties, missions isk etc (which is woeful to be honest) the more people buy ships, mods, skins etc makes for a better economy, makes for more people pvping more often. One reason people stop playing is basically they run out of ISK and quite frankly cant be assed to grind up for hours just to get another ship that 10 seconds later gets blown up. Its really not rocket science...
Kashadin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#85 - 2015-05-12 06:59:45 UTC
ImYourMom wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:
I recently returned to the game after some years away. Last time I was playing, PLEX was going for ~350-400M ISK at Jita. Now we're seeing it at 850M ISK and more. That's pretty rapid inflation. The cause of it is simple, there's too much ISK in the economy currently. I can make enough for a PLEX in 6-8 hours of ratting in null. Often even fast than that. Essentially, I can rat for a couple hours a day per week and make enough to play for free. People playing efficiently in Hi Sec can make enough for PLEX in only slightly more time than that. Of course the value of PLEX is going to explosively inflate... people can afford it without much trouble.[quote=Traejun DiSanctis]I recently returned to the game after some years away. Last time I was playing, PLEX was going for ~350-400M ISK at Jita. Now we're seeing it at 850M ISK and more. That's pretty rapid inflation. The cause of it is simple, there's too much ISK in the economy currently. I can make enough for a PLEX in 6-8 hours of ratting in null. Often even fast than that. Essentially, I can rat for a couple hours a day per week and make enough to play for free. People playing efficiently in Hi Sec can make enough for PLEX in only slightly more time than that. Of course the value of PLEX is going to explosively inflate... people can afford it without much trouble.

That said, most of the proposed solutions in this thread are not solutions at all.

IMO, fix the price of PLEX. I hate that idea, but its probably the only way to control it.


Fix the price of PLEX is fixing the symptom not the underlying cause. It is like telling somebody who is a Type II diabetic to simply reduce their blood glucose by taking their medicine. It does not treat the underlying problem (too much insulin which has led to insulin resistance). In this case, it is too much ISK flowing into the Eve economy.

The solution is rather obvious.

1. Reduce the ISK flowing into the economy.
2. Increase the ISK flowing out of the economy.

Ways to approach 1 are as follows:

A. Decrease incursion payouts.
B. Decrease rat bounties.
C. Decrease insurance payouts.
D. Decrease mission rewards.

To implement 2 some possibilities are:

E. Increase the price of BPOs.
F. Increase the price of (higher end) skill books.
G. Increase LP store prices.

Of course, none of these are terribly popular with most players.

That said, most of the proposed solutions in this thread are not solutions at all.


Are you mental?

what would drive down prices is making those better and higher now decrease them. The more ISK people make the less need to buy a plex either in game or RMT. Meaning more plex available meaning less prices. Supply > demand...

If CCP signifiicantly increased bounties, missions isk etc (which is woeful to be honest) the more people buy ships, mods, skins etc makes for a better economy, makes for more people pvping more often. One reason people stop playing is basically they run out of ISK and quite frankly cant be assed to grind up for hours just to get another ship that 10 seconds later gets blown up. Its really not rocket science...



*cracks knuckles* Ok, after reading this out loud to myself a few times I think I understand this post, sorry if english is your second language, but your sentence structure needs work.


If everyone in the game both wanted to use PLEX to pay for the game, personally I don't no matter how much ISK I make, and could afford (in game) to do so, then the price of PLEX would go up until PLEX either ran out or you got to the point where it out priced the average players income, leading to people not being able to PLEX a acct, leading to people either shutting off accts or just deciding to pay for them with cash and use the ISK for other things.

Outside of buying PLEX if the income of all non-trade activities (see: any time the game generates ISK from nothing) increases then you will see a general increase in the price of items in the game go up as well, since people will be able to pay more for things, tho the increase will either be steady if the increase is small or sudden and destructive if the increase is dramatic.

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#86 - 2015-05-12 07:02:56 UTC
They took our jobs!

Evil RatKid
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#87 - 2015-05-12 07:18:32 UTC
ImYourMom wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:
I recently returned to the game after some years away. Last time I was playing, PLEX was going for ~350-400M ISK at Jita. Now we're seeing it at 850M ISK and more. That's pretty rapid inflation. The cause of it is simple, there's too much ISK in the economy currently. I can make enough for a PLEX in 6-8 hours of ratting in null. Often even fast than that. Essentially, I can rat for a couple hours a day per week and make enough to play for free. People playing efficiently in Hi Sec can make enough for PLEX in only slightly more time than that. Of course the value of PLEX is going to explosively inflate... people can afford it without much trouble.[quote=Traejun DiSanctis]I recently returned to the game after some years away. Last time I was playing, PLEX was going for ~350-400M ISK at Jita. Now we're seeing it at 850M ISK and more. That's pretty rapid inflation. The cause of it is simple, there's too much ISK in the economy currently. I can make enough for a PLEX in 6-8 hours of ratting in null. Often even fast than that. Essentially, I can rat for a couple hours a day per week and make enough to play for free. People playing efficiently in Hi Sec can make enough for PLEX in only slightly more time than that. Of course the value of PLEX is going to explosively inflate... people can afford it without much trouble.

That said, most of the proposed solutions in this thread are not solutions at all.

IMO, fix the price of PLEX. I hate that idea, but its probably the only way to control it.


Fix the price of PLEX is fixing the symptom not the underlying cause. It is like telling somebody who is a Type II diabetic to simply reduce their blood glucose by taking their medicine. It does not treat the underlying problem (too much insulin which has led to insulin resistance). In this case, it is too much ISK flowing into the Eve economy.

The solution is rather obvious.

1. Reduce the ISK flowing into the economy.
2. Increase the ISK flowing out of the economy.

Ways to approach 1 are as follows:

A. Decrease incursion payouts.
B. Decrease rat bounties.
C. Decrease insurance payouts.
D. Decrease mission rewards.

To implement 2 some possibilities are:

E. Increase the price of BPOs.
F. Increase the price of (higher end) skill books.
G. Increase LP store prices.

Of course, none of these are terribly popular with most players.

That said, most of the proposed solutions in this thread are not solutions at all.


Are you mental?

what would drive down prices is making those better and higher now decrease them. The more ISK people make the less need to buy a plex either in game or RMT. Meaning more plex available meaning less prices. Supply > demand...

If CCP signifiicantly increased bounties, missions isk etc (which is woeful to be honest) the more people buy ships, mods, skins etc makes for a better economy, makes for more people pvping more often. One reason people stop playing is basically they run out of ISK and quite frankly cant be assed to grind up for hours just to get another ship that 10 seconds later gets blown up. Its really not rocket science...


Heh, no. The adults here realize that increasing the rate at which the money supply grows increases the rate of inflation. Inflation does not increase economic activity due to money illusion (aka price illusion).

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#88 - 2015-05-12 10:29:00 UTC
ImYourMom wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:
I recently returned to the game after some years away. Last time I was playing, PLEX was going for ~350-400M ISK at Jita. Now we're seeing it at 850M ISK and more. That's pretty rapid inflation. The cause of it is simple, there's too much ISK in the economy currently. I can make enough for a PLEX in 6-8 hours of ratting in null. Often even fast than that. Essentially, I can rat for a couple hours a day per week and make enough to play for free. People playing efficiently in Hi Sec can make enough for PLEX in only slightly more time than that. Of course the value of PLEX is going to explosively inflate... people can afford it without much trouble.[quote=Traejun DiSanctis]I recently returned to the game after some years away. Last time I was playing, PLEX was going for ~350-400M ISK at Jita. Now we're seeing it at 850M ISK and more. That's pretty rapid inflation. The cause of it is simple, there's too much ISK in the economy currently. I can make enough for a PLEX in 6-8 hours of ratting in null. Often even fast than that. Essentially, I can rat for a couple hours a day per week and make enough to play for free. People playing efficiently in Hi Sec can make enough for PLEX in only slightly more time than that. Of course the value of PLEX is going to explosively inflate... people can afford it without much trouble.

That said, most of the proposed solutions in this thread are not solutions at all.

IMO, fix the price of PLEX. I hate that idea, but its probably the only way to control it.


Fix the price of PLEX is fixing the symptom not the underlying cause. It is like telling somebody who is a Type II diabetic to simply reduce their blood glucose by taking their medicine. It does not treat the underlying problem (too much insulin which has led to insulin resistance). In this case, it is too much ISK flowing into the Eve economy.

The solution is rather obvious.

1. Reduce the ISK flowing into the economy.
2. Increase the ISK flowing out of the economy.

Ways to approach 1 are as follows:

A. Decrease incursion payouts.
B. Decrease rat bounties.
C. Decrease insurance payouts.
D. Decrease mission rewards.

To implement 2 some possibilities are:

E. Increase the price of BPOs.
F. Increase the price of (higher end) skill books.
G. Increase LP store prices.

Of course, none of these are terribly popular with most players.

That said, most of the proposed solutions in this thread are not solutions at all.


Are you mental?

what would drive down prices is making those better and higher now decrease them. The more ISK people make the less need to buy a plex either in game or RMT. Meaning more plex available meaning less prices. Supply > demand...

If CCP signifiicantly increased bounties, missions isk etc (which is woeful to be honest) the more people buy ships, mods, skins etc makes for a better economy, makes for more people pvping more often. One reason people stop playing is basically they run out of ISK and quite frankly cant be assed to grind up for hours just to get another ship that 10 seconds later gets blown up. Its really not rocket science...


Wow, you got that basically completely backwards. The more isk people have, the more likely they are to buy PLEX for isk, hence increasing demand for them, hence driving up price. While on the flip side, the easier people can get isk in game, the less likely they are to pay real money for PLEX, so supply drops, which again, drives up price.

The person you are calling "mental" has it right - reducing the amount of isk people have makes them more inclined to pay their subscription with real money, as they have less spare isk (hence reducing demand for PLEXx), or more likely to buy PLEX with real money to give their wallet a boost (hence increasing supply in the market), both of which would drive down the cost of PLEX.
Solecist Project
#89 - 2015-05-12 10:51:20 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Wow, you got that basically completely backwards. The more isk people have, the more likely they are to buy PLEX for isk, hence increasing demand for them, hence driving up price. While on the flip side, the easier people can get isk in game, the less likely they are to pay real money for PLEX, so supply drops, which again, drives up price.

The person you are calling "mental" has it right - reducing the amount of isk people have makes them more inclined to pay their subscription with real money, as they have less spare isk (hence reducing demand for PLEXx), or more likely to buy PLEX with real money to give their wallet a boost (hence increasing supply in the market), both of which would drive down the cost of PLEX.

Confirming that being right is the new "mental".

Ignorance is Strength !

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#90 - 2015-05-12 11:15:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Nat Silverguard
Memphis Baas wrote:
CCP could also stop the Plex for Good (reduce demand for PLEX) and give a 50% discount (PLEX for $10) and I believe you'll see the ISK/PLEX ratio drop drastically overnight. Of course, you'd be an ass to ask for these things, considering that the first helps victims and the second keeps CCP afloat.


i really hope and pray that where ever you are that you won't have any natural disaster that would move CCP and players alike to conduct and be involved in "Plex for Good". Cry

edit: spelling courtesy of Azn

Just Add Water
Azn
Doomheim
#91 - 2015-05-12 11:39:16 UTC
Nat Silverguard wrote:


i really hope and paray


Parays Jeehsus?

The only alt allowed to post in C&P
April Cross
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2015-05-12 15:02:19 UTC
So a couple hours of incursions is too much for a plex?

Give me a break.
Commander Spurty
#93 - 2015-05-12 15:43:47 UTC
A PLEX isn't a way for you to play for free.

It's a way for people that have less free time than you to pay more $$$s [i.e. cover your subs] so that they can keep up with you, while not removing you from the game.

Any other explanation is a good distraction from this reality. If other explanations help you stay in the game, you should ignore you read this post and go with that one.

Shocked

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#94 - 2015-05-12 16:59:28 UTC
April Cross wrote:
So a couple hours of incursions is too much for a plex?

Give me a break.



Depends....

Do you like running incursions? If not, then maybe the answer is no.

What is your hourly wage (if salary use an imputed hourly wage), if it is more than $10/hour, then the answer is no.

If both are no (you do not like running incursions and your hourly income is greater than $10) then buying a PLEX instead is indeed a good decision.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#95 - 2015-05-12 17:03:32 UTC
Commander Spurty wrote:
A PLEX isn't a way for you to play for free.

It's a way for people that have less free time than you to pay more $$$s [i.e. cover your subs] so that they can keep up with you, while not removing you from the game.

Any other explanation is a good distraction from this reality. If other explanations help you stay in the game, you should ignore you read this post and go with that one.

Shocked


Exactly. It is a form of mutually beneficial trade.

Player A is time constrained, but not income constrained (well not overly so).

Player B is income constrained, but has considerably more free time.

The PLEX market allows A and B to engage in a mutually beneficial trade. A buys a PLEX and then sells it to B in game for ISK. A gets the ISK he desires, but doesn't have the time to grind for, and A gets to extend his game time (which he may not be able to afford IRL) for a small portion of the ISK he has saved up. Both "win".

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#96 - 2015-05-12 17:07:32 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
They took our jobs!


Da Derk ur DERBS!
Solecist Project
#97 - 2015-05-12 17:25:14 UTC
April Cross wrote:
So a couple hours of incursions is too much for a plex?

Give me a break.
I have a job IRL.
No need to have a job ingame as well.
It doesn't matter if it's only an hour, or a couple.

I have a job.
I have money.
I'm not greedy.
I don't waste money on crap.
I care about more than just myself.
EVE is a hobby well worth spending money on.


That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#98 - 2015-05-12 17:25:56 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Tippia’s comment. Yes PLEX, in theory, can impact the value of ISK. If CCP sold a bunch of PLEX on the in game market it could take the ISK it gets and either “sequester” it or even destroy it. The problem is that creating a PLEX simply to sell on the in game market in this fashion does not result in money for CCP. They could use any PLEX they obtained from a seized account which was presumably paid for at some point, but that is probably not that large a quantity of PLEX. I suppose…CCP could create new PLEX that is equal to PLEX that are destroyed in game as well. They did get money for those.

They already do that re-seeding of seized PLEX thing. And no, it's a staggeringly large quantity of PLEX. Blink

I can't remember off the top of my head which fanfest it was ('12, perhaps?), but there was an economy presentation where the number of PLEX they had seized was divulged and where they talked about what mechanics they had in place for moderating the PLEX market. Granted, the pile was staggeringly huge at the time, and they've used that strategy a couple of times since, but on the other hand I can't really imagine that rate at which they seize PLEX has slowed down all that much.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#99 - 2015-05-12 17:26:57 UTC
Decrease the income for activities people are already doing and they'll leave. I keep saying this and people keep leaving. And calling me names like troll for saying it.

Eve has an amazing power to allow people to rationalize the most incredible bullshit I have ever heard.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#100 - 2015-05-12 17:32:48 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Tippia’s comment. Yes PLEX, in theory, can impact the value of ISK. If CCP sold a bunch of PLEX on the in game market it could take the ISK it gets and either “sequester” it or even destroy it. The problem is that creating a PLEX simply to sell on the in game market in this fashion does not result in money for CCP. They could use any PLEX they obtained from a seized account which was presumably paid for at some point, but that is probably not that large a quantity of PLEX. I suppose…CCP could create new PLEX that is equal to PLEX that are destroyed in game as well. They did get money for those.

They already do that re-seeding of seized PLEX thing. And no, it's a staggeringly large quantity of PLEX. Blink

I can't remember off the top of my head which fanfest it was ('12, perhaps?), but there was an economy presentation where the number of PLEX they had seized was divulged and where they talked about what mechanics they had in place for moderating the PLEX market. Granted, the pile was staggeringly huge at the time, and they've used that strategy a couple of times since, but on the other hand I can't really imagine that rate at which they seize PLEX has slowed down all that much.


Ahh, well that is good then...having a large pile of seized PLEX. It does give CCP a way to combat inflation/ISK entering the economy and one that is not very obvious. For some reasons central bankers love doing things on the quiet. Big smile

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online