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PLEX prices getting too high

First post
Author
Solecist Project
#61 - 2015-05-11 13:21:25 UTC
Luna Amouh wrote:
What I find interesting is that a lot of people complain because they can't plex their accounts with minimal effort. That someone else had to buy the plex for 20 €/$ is completely ignored.

In the end it it a simple question of supply/demand. If nobody is investing real life money to get a measly 300m - 500m ISK, PLEX prices will rise to an acceptable level.

A lot of people seem to think that they are entitled to get PLEX for cheap, which obviously they are not.



I agree that people would buy PLEX with ISK if they dropped back to 400mill.

But that's too late.

For the PLEX price to drop that badly ...
... we'd have to shed a shitton of subs.

If all PLEX hoarders suddenly dumped ...
... then yes, people would buy like mad.


If the PLEX price through lack of demand, though ...
... then we lost a shitton of subs ...
... and only survive through via an iron lung.

We might get out of it alive ...
... but that's guesswork.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Memphis Baas
#62 - 2015-05-11 13:48:00 UTC
CCP could also stop the Plex for Good (reduce demand for PLEX) and give a 50% discount (PLEX for $10) and I believe you'll see the ISK/PLEX ratio drop drastically overnight. Of course, you'd be an ass to ask for these things, considering that the first helps victims and the second keeps CCP afloat.
Daerrol
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2015-05-11 14:07:40 UTC
4 hours of playing EVE for 15$ of IRL value seems about right to me?
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#64 - 2015-05-11 14:16:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Pohbis
There is no "too high".

EVE is a paid subscription game. The option of playing to pay, is a convenience option.

If the convenience balance is shifting, you pay instead. Players who don't want to spend a dime aren't worth anything to CCP – this is a single shard game, they don't need to inflate server numbers with "warm bodies", to create content for people.
Elenahina
Embark
Triumvirate.
#65 - 2015-05-11 14:45:32 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Asaka Issier wrote:
It it just me or have plexes been jumping several million each day? A month or so ago they were about 750mil. Will there be a cap limit on how high they can go before they get to be stupidly expensive where only players with ample time to produce the isk for them can buy them?


I translate this is "someone do something about PLEX, else the 1% yada yada cry cry".

At current prices a plex is 28 mil per day. There are lvl 4 missions and null anomalies that pay 28 mil in total rewards (and at the standard lp exchange rate, a single High Sec Incursion site pays 38.5 mil). ONE mission or anomaly a day pays for a plex, or you could join an incursion fleet, and do ONE hq site a day for 22 days and make a plex.

In other words, PLEX are ridiculously inexpensive in terms of time per day a player needs to devote to getting one. The people who complain about them are ones who are reckless with their isk and only think about plex when it's time to resub, which is a personal failing.

Stop complaining.


Pretty much this. Making money in this gme is the least difficult thing you can do. It practically puts itself into your wallet, as long you aren't foolish with it.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno

erg cz
Novus Unitas
Synergy of Steel
#66 - 2015-05-11 14:47:39 UTC
Pohbis wrote:
There is no "too high".

Yes, there is no.

Pohbis wrote:
they don't need to inflate server numbers with "warm bodies", to create content for people.


Wrong, they do. No warm bodies - no ego boosters for "cool" PvP players. In most cases "cool" PvP chars are not capable of any other PvP, than just shoot into "warm bodies". Unless they are newbees, they usually flee if there is at small chance they will lose their ship. Players personal skill in low sec is often measured by your ability to find your " warm body " and kill it before real pvp players will get on grid and kill you.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#67 - 2015-05-11 17:05:14 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:
I recently returned to the game after some years away. Last time I was playing, PLEX was going for ~350-400M ISK at Jita. Now we're seeing it at 850M ISK and more. That's pretty rapid inflation. The cause of it is simple, there's too much ISK in the economy currently. I can make enough for a PLEX in 6-8 hours of ratting in null. Often even fast than that. Essentially, I can rat for a couple hours a day per week and make enough to play for free. People playing efficiently in Hi Sec can make enough for PLEX in only slightly more time than that. Of course the value of PLEX is going to explosively inflate... people can afford it without much trouble.

That said, most of the proposed solutions in this thread are not solutions at all.

IMO, fix the price of PLEX. I hate that idea, but its probably the only way to control it.

If you feel there is too much ISK in the game, here is the way you can fix it.

1) Go to a system where the NPCs are selling either skill books or BPOs.
2) Buy a bunch. ISK has now left the game.
3) Jet what you bought and destroy the can.
4) Repeat until the ISK supply has been reduced to your satisfaction.
This can actually be improved.
1) Go to a system where the NPCs are selling skill books
2) Buy a bunch. ISK has now left the game.
3) Fly those books to trade hubs, and list for 2% below NPC price
4) Watch books sell rapidly
5) Repeat, laughing as you pour not just your isk, but billions of other people's isk out of the game.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Tollen Gallen
Glory of Reprisal Enterprise
#68 - 2015-05-11 17:19:47 UTC
I like PLEX4GOOD.

Zimmy Zeta - I f*cking love martinis. the original ones, with gin, not that vodka martini crap. Your old Friends can use me for 7 days, free!!!

WhyTry1
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#69 - 2015-05-11 17:50:13 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Did PLEX stop devaluing ISK? No. Did it stop people buying SP? No. Did it stop ISK buyers? No. Did it stop anything that unofficial RMT was being blamed for? Not a bit. Did it in any way do anything to help the game? If you've been around as long as I have then you know the answer.

Most of that is because it never intended to do anything of the kind.

PLEX can't affect the value of ISK because they're almost completely economy-neutral. There was never any intent of making them affect the changes in value of ISK (not to mention that the supposed devaluation is up for debate to begin with…).

PLEX did not stop people buying SP for the simple reason that nothing can stop something that doesn't exist. The game mechanics of how SP is created stop people from buying SP (i.e. there are no mechanics that would even remotely allow for it) — PLEX isn't even a factor — so that could never be an intent either.

Did it stop anything that unofficial RMT was blamed for? No, because the intent was never to stop anything — not even CCP is that delusional — only to offer a far less harmful and safe alternative to the same demand. As it happens it did do that: rather than using a service that often hinges on fraud and account theft, people can get their hands on a good that they can trade for ISK without other customers (or CCP) suffering any ill consequences from it. As such, if you've been around for as long (or longer) than you have, you will know that PLEX has helped the game in quite a few ways.


The issue is that PLEX is used for many things thus driving the price up. Falsely IMO. Some people just want to convert PLEX to ISK and that's it, some just want to add more game time. But you are paying for all the extras it offers, even though you can ever only use it for one thing at a time. So you're paying a premium for it.

We know that CCP had another motive to establish PLEX, and that's to combat ISK Sellers and RMT and also gain some valuable income. Why buy it from the RMTers and get caught (see how they ramped up security on RMT) when you can buy ISK from us officially. They knew there was a market for it, so why not exploit it. To say different is being completely naïve.

The thing is people are a little spolit in EVE, not many if any allow you to pay for game time, buy using ingame currency where you can grind that money, ultimately if you want never pay for the game. People should realise that too.. You actually never ever have to pay for anything in the game if you work for it. Sadly though grinding with low rewards isn't fun and it is a grind. If you PVP as well then its near impossible to feed the PVP habit and grind for PLEX. Unless you have a few accounts.

Therefore CCP know that (the bit I don't like) you cant sustain a good pvp habit constantly, because the isk grind is terrible, so they sell you ISK via PLEX instead. Great business model to make real money really quick.

Be interesting to know how much CCP make via PLEX
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#70 - 2015-05-11 19:51:37 UTC
WhyTry1 wrote:
The issue is that PLEX is used for many things thus driving the price up. Falsely IMO. Some people just want to convert PLEX to ISK and that's it, some just want to add more game time. But you are paying for all the extras it offers, even though you can ever only use it for one thing at a time. So you're paying a premium for it.

Neither of those mean you're paying a premium. If you want to convert to ISK, you pay a fixed price that has been the same since long before PLEX even existed. If you want more game time, you simply pay what the market think a PLEX is worth.

As it is, PLEX are unusually cheap right now, and what drives the prices up are more likely connected to speculation than to any of the actual end uses. So, as many have pointed out, it's highly debatable whether it's really an issue or not to begin with.

Quote:
Therefore CCP know that (the bit I don't like) you cant sustain a good pvp habit constantly, because the isk grind is terrible, so they sell you ISK via PLEX instead.
…except that CCP does not sell ISK via PLEX, and that the ISK grind is a) optional, and b) not actually removed through this mechanism.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#71 - 2015-05-11 21:20:06 UTC
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:
I recently returned to the game after some years away. Last time I was playing, PLEX was going for ~350-400M ISK at Jita. Now we're seeing it at 850M ISK and more. That's pretty rapid inflation. The cause of it is simple, there's too much ISK in the economy currently. I can make enough for a PLEX in 6-8 hours of ratting in null. Often even fast than that. Essentially, I can rat for a couple hours a day per week and make enough to play for free. People playing efficiently in Hi Sec can make enough for PLEX in only slightly more time than that. Of course the value of PLEX is going to explosively inflate... people can afford it without much trouble.[quote=Traejun DiSanctis]I recently returned to the game after some years away. Last time I was playing, PLEX was going for ~350-400M ISK at Jita. Now we're seeing it at 850M ISK and more. That's pretty rapid inflation. The cause of it is simple, there's too much ISK in the economy currently. I can make enough for a PLEX in 6-8 hours of ratting in null. Often even fast than that. Essentially, I can rat for a couple hours a day per week and make enough to play for free. People playing efficiently in Hi Sec can make enough for PLEX in only slightly more time than that. Of course the value of PLEX is going to explosively inflate... people can afford it without much trouble.

That said, most of the proposed solutions in this thread are not solutions at all.

IMO, fix the price of PLEX. I hate that idea, but its probably the only way to control it.


Fix the price of PLEX is fixing the symptom not the underlying cause. It is like telling somebody who is a Type II diabetic to simply reduce their blood glucose by taking their medicine. It does not treat the underlying problem (too much insulin which has led to insulin resistance). In this case, it is too much ISK flowing into the Eve economy.

The solution is rather obvious.

1. Reduce the ISK flowing into the economy.
2. Increase the ISK flowing out of the economy.

Ways to approach 1 are as follows:

A. Decrease incursion payouts.
B. Decrease rat bounties.
C. Decrease insurance payouts.
D. Decrease mission rewards.

To implement 2 some possibilities are:

E. Increase the price of BPOs.
F. Increase the price of (higher end) skill books.
G. Increase LP store prices.

Of course, none of these are terribly popular with most players.

That said, most of the proposed solutions in this thread are not solutions at all.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Stacy Lone
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2015-05-11 21:21:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Stacy Lone
Quote:

Therefore CCP know that (the bit I don't like) you cant sustain a good pvp habit constantly, because the isk grind is terrible, so they sell you ISK via PLEX instead. Great business model to make real money really quick.

Be interesting to know how much CCP make via PLEX


Except they don't.

The ISK you are getting for your PLEX have been grinded ingame - just not by you, but someone else.

Quote:

A. Decrease incursion payouts.
B. Decrease rat bounties.
C. Decrease insurance payouts.
D. Decrease mission rewards.

Great. Now every new player can make less ISK, so the power difference between new players and older, rich players who already have shittons of ISk gets even bigger.

Imho the expect opposite would be good. Drastically increase all payout, by a factor of maybe 10 times. This would devalue the already stockpiled ISK. Yes, all market prices would skyrocket, but you'd also have much more ISK and the ISk reserves of older players would be worth only 1/10th od what they used to be worth.
Kashadin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#73 - 2015-05-11 21:52:49 UTC
Stacy Lone wrote:
[quote]


Imho the expect opposite would be good. Drastically increase all payout, by a factor of maybe 10 times. This would devalue the already stockpiled ISK. Yes, all market prices would skyrocket, but you'd also have much more ISK and the ISk reserves of older players would be worth only 1/10th od what they used to be worth.



Ask post-WWII Germany how that works out. Not saying that the situations would be completely parallel, but the effect on the economy would be disastrous at least.

Best case scenario, everything cost 10x as much as it did before and the people with tons of ISK on hand and plans in place to turn ISK into assets would be in a even better position and the people who just want ISK to fund w/e they are doing would just need to get more ISK, the grind would take just as long(if not longer), the numbers would just be bigger.

Worst case scenario, the economy in the game crashes as people jack up prices on everything (or pull goods all together to calculate the new price points) and no one knows how to price anything, do they leave the prices as is? Do they jack everything up 10x? Or do they find a middle price range? Remember, most prices of things in the game are based around how much it cost to make it and how much people are willing/able to pay for it. If everyone suddenly got a huge boost to income, don't you think the manufactures and miners of EVE would want to see some of that?

Look at the Chinese server if you want to see what happens when ISK generation is out of hand, and that is with the current system is in place.


Derath Ellecon
Lotek Academy
#74 - 2015-05-11 22:16:09 UTC
Pohbis wrote:
There is no "too high".

EVE is a paid subscription game. The option of playing to pay, is a convenience option.

If the convenience balance is shifting, you pay instead. Players who don't want to spend a dime aren't worth anything to CCP – this is a single shard game, they don't need to inflate server numbers with "warm bodies", to create content for people.


I disagree. The people who don't want to spend a dime are the ones who help create the PLEX market. Without buyers for PLEX in game there would be less of an incentive to buy them for real $$ out of game.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#75 - 2015-05-11 22:26:56 UTC
WhyTry1 wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Did PLEX stop devaluing ISK? No. Did it stop people buying SP? No. Did it stop ISK buyers? No. Did it stop anything that unofficial RMT was being blamed for? Not a bit. Did it in any way do anything to help the game? If you've been around as long as I have then you know the answer.

Most of that is because it never intended to do anything of the kind.

PLEX can't affect the value of ISK because they're almost completely economy-neutral. There was never any intent of making them affect the changes in value of ISK (not to mention that the supposed devaluation is up for debate to begin with…).

[snip]

Did it stop anything that unofficial RMT was blamed for? No, because the intent was never to stop anything — not even CCP is that delusional — only to offer a far less harmful and safe alternative to the same demand. As it happens it did do that: rather than using a service that often hinges on fraud and account theft, people can get their hands on a good that they can trade for ISK without other customers (or CCP) suffering any ill consequences from it. As such, if you've been around for as long (or longer) than you have, you will know that PLEX has helped the game in quite a few ways.


The issue is that PLEX is used for many things thus driving the price up. Falsely IMO. Some people just want to convert PLEX to ISK and that's it, some just want to add more game time. But you are paying for all the extras it offers, even though you can ever only use it for one thing at a time. So you're paying a premium for it.

Therefore CCP know that (the bit I don't like) you cant sustain a good pvp habit constantly, because the isk grind is terrible, so they sell you ISK via PLEX instead. Great business model to make real money really quick.

[snip]

Be interesting to know how much CCP make via PLEX


Lots of stuff to cover in those three posts quoted above.

First off Mr. Epeen’s comments. PLEX do help limit RMT. Because PLEX are so high in value they are an attractive alternative to buying RMT ISK which can get your account banned and result in the player losing money (CCP takes that ISK away). The higher PLEX prices go, the lower RMT prices have to go to compensate for the extra risk and to compete. Will it stop RMT? Interesting question, and my answer is that at some price it will make RMT activities in Eve Online unprofitable and yes it will kill RMT. Of course that price might be quite high and there might be other problems with PLEX prices being that high that are bad for the game and possibly even worse than tolerating a certain level of RMT.

Tippia’s comment. Yes PLEX, in theory, can impact the value of ISK. If CCP sold a bunch of PLEX on the in game market it could take the ISK it gets and either “sequester” it or even destroy it. The problem is that creating a PLEX simply to sell on the in game market in this fashion does not result in money for CCP. They could use any PLEX they obtained from a seized account which was presumably paid for at some point, but that is probably not that large a quantity of PLEX. I suppose…CCP could create new PLEX that is equal to PLEX that are destroyed in game as well. They did get money for those.

Lastly, there are only a few things PLEX are good for. Extending game time and converting ISK in Aurum. The exchange rate was pretty bad for the later, not sure if that is still the case. Also, some players use PLEX as a hedge against inflation if they are going to be leaving the game for a period of time. Those are about the only uses for PLEX and none of those uses really drive up the price of PLEX. Instead it has been most likely due the acceleration of ISK entering the economy. Imagine if you logged in one day and found 50 billion ISK in your wallet. Some other player just picked your name at random and dumped his ISK in your wallet. Would you possibly go out and buy a year’s worth of PLEX? Some players might. Now imagine EVERYONE getting extra ISK in their wallets. The price of many things, and especially PLEX would likely rise. Even if you didn’t spend all those billions buying and holding lots of PLEX till you can find a place to invest the ISK would not be a horrible idea.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#76 - 2015-05-11 22:30:22 UTC
Stacy Lone wrote:
Quote:

Therefore CCP know that (the bit I don't like) you cant sustain a good pvp habit constantly, because the isk grind is terrible, so they sell you ISK via PLEX instead. Great business model to make real money really quick.

Be interesting to know how much CCP make via PLEX


Except they don't.

The ISK you are getting for your PLEX have been grinded ingame - just not by you, but someone else.

Quote:

A. Decrease incursion payouts.
B. Decrease rat bounties.
C. Decrease insurance payouts.
D. Decrease mission rewards.

Great. Now every new player can make less ISK, so the power difference between new players and older, rich players who already have shittons of ISk gets even bigger.

Imho the expect opposite would be good. Drastically increase all payout, by a factor of maybe 10 times. This would devalue the already stockpiled ISK. Yes, all market prices would skyrocket, but you'd also have much more ISK and the ISk reserves of older players would be worth only 1/10th od what they used to be worth.


I did say that those solutions would be unpopular....maybe you should try reading for comprehension.

Also, increasing all payouts by a factor of 10 would likely push PLEX prices well over 2 billion very, very quickly and probably higher. And inflation tends to hurt the poor and those on fixed incomes the most.

You are just flat out wrong everywhere in your reply to me.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#77 - 2015-05-11 22:31:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Kashadin wrote:
Stacy Lone wrote:



Imho the expect opposite would be good. Drastically increase all payout, by a factor of maybe 10 times. This would devalue the already stockpiled ISK. Yes, all market prices would skyrocket, but you'd also have much more ISK and the ISk reserves of older players would be worth only 1/10th od what they used to be worth.



Ask post-WWII Germany how that works out. Not saying that the situations would be completely parallel, but the effect on the economy would be disastrous at least.



Or Zimbabwe circa 2008 and 2009.

Quote:
Zimbabwe Dollars ranging from 10 dollars to 100 billion printed within a one year period.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2015-05-11 22:32:36 UTC
Stacy Lone wrote:
Quote:

Therefore CCP know that (the bit I don't like) you cant sustain a good pvp habit constantly, because the isk grind is terrible, so they sell you ISK via PLEX instead. Great business model to make real money really quick.

Be interesting to know how much CCP make via PLEX


Except they don't.

The ISK you are getting for your PLEX have been grinded ingame - just not by you, but someone else.

Quote:

A. Decrease incursion payouts.
B. Decrease rat bounties.
C. Decrease insurance payouts.
D. Decrease mission rewards.

Great. Now every new player can make less ISK, so the power difference between new players and older, rich players who already have shittons of ISk gets even bigger.

Imho the expect opposite would be good. Drastically increase all payout, by a factor of maybe 10 times. This would devalue the already stockpiled ISK. Yes, all market prices would skyrocket, but you'd also have much more ISK and the ISk reserves of older players would be worth only 1/10th od what they used to be worth.
Thank [insert favorite divinity] you're not Chairwoman of the Fed.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#79 - 2015-05-11 22:38:33 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Stacy Lone wrote:
Quote:

Therefore CCP know that (the bit I don't like) you cant sustain a good pvp habit constantly, because the isk grind is terrible, so they sell you ISK via PLEX instead. Great business model to make real money really quick.

Be interesting to know how much CCP make via PLEX


Except they don't.

The ISK you are getting for your PLEX have been grinded ingame - just not by you, but someone else.

Quote:

A. Decrease incursion payouts.
B. Decrease rat bounties.
C. Decrease insurance payouts.
D. Decrease mission rewards.

Great. Now every new player can make less ISK, so the power difference between new players and older, rich players who already have shittons of ISk gets even bigger.

Imho the expect opposite would be good. Drastically increase all payout, by a factor of maybe 10 times. This would devalue the already stockpiled ISK. Yes, all market prices would skyrocket, but you'd also have much more ISK and the ISk reserves of older players would be worth only 1/10th od what they used to be worth.
Thank [insert favorite divinity] you're not Chairwoman of the Fed.


I am not a religious person, but Amen to that Gully.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Kharnakh
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#80 - 2015-05-11 23:34:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Kharnakh
WhyTry1 wrote:
Be interesting to know how much CCP make via PLEX


At £9.99 a month for a sub, and £16.99 for a single plex (from the eve store), 70% more than they would if you just paid for your account with real money...