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[April] [Updated] Confessor and Svipul Balance Tweaks

First post First post
Author
Jet Silf
Mercurial Messenger Service
#641 - 2015-05-03 20:13:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Jet Silf
Daniela Doran wrote:
And this sudden nerf has got me petrified at the thought of training for the Gallente/Caldari T3D's Because I'm beginning to believe that these T3D's are nothing more than test dummies for CCP's ultimate goal which is the complete rebalancing of the T3C's, so inevitably these T3D's are gonna be hit with another balance pass and another and another until they reach their goals. Once their goals are reached that's when the T3C's would be changed accordingly. In the meantime I'm gonna terrorize small plexes with these boys while I have the chance.Twisted


T3 Cruisers have the same issues with oversized AB fits, and is very likely what they want to "look into" for those. (They may have found a pretty elegant solution for it the way they just handled the T3Ds.)

T3Ds will see another "nerf", but I think it's going to be about risk/investment instead of about power- I don't think they can adjust the power much further down when you look at the more uber frigates and dessies like Daredevil, Garmur or Sabre and other T2 stuff like AFs and inties....instead I think they will bring the ISK/skill requirements up to better match the T3Ds abilities. (And to help maybe make them a rarer sight in places like FW, where low cost-mostly frigate PvP has always been the norm....there's plenty of other ships that could be out there terrorizing FW complexes, but they all cost 3 times as much isk and similarly more skill investment.)

Speaking of the other two T3Ds.....I wish they would hurry up and come out with those already.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#642 - 2015-05-04 02:15:22 UTC
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
Jet Silf wrote:
...Well, there may be ships that can go faster than 2600m/s, but only so many of them...


Garmur, Navy Slicer, all ceptors, Condor, Atron, Executioner, some minmatar ones...

They will all kill that Confessor in 20 seconds - the end.

I still cannot see how the Confessor was so unstoppable that this overnerf need to happen.



Dunno about that really. Post nerf I am able to put the heavier guns on, granting me an extra 15km optimal (now up to about 80+km), and an extra 40dps with aurora. I have more agility than pre-nerf, and the only thing I've lost is some tracking (due to bigger guns).

I'm not having any trouble at all blapping t1 frigs, even those that are forgoing using any hislots in an effort to bulk up tank and em resists.

And I've already tried going up against garmurs too. I can out-shoot their point, and if they are not already aligned to something it might be too late for them to warp off.

So far I've had trouble with two ships, Jaguars and Wolves. That 90% base EM resist....


I guess I'm still worried about using Aurora because of that -75% tracking speed reduction. So basically you're saying that you can track a frig moving at 3km/s + without any issues? Do you use tracking rigs?
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#643 - 2015-05-04 19:10:50 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
Jet Silf wrote:
...Well, there may be ships that can go faster than 2600m/s, but only so many of them...


Garmur, Navy Slicer, all ceptors, Condor, Atron, Executioner, some minmatar ones...

They will all kill that Confessor in 20 seconds - the end.

I still cannot see how the Confessor was so unstoppable that this overnerf need to happen.



Dunno about that really. Post nerf I am able to put the heavier guns on, granting me an extra 15km optimal (now up to about 80+km), and an extra 40dps with aurora. I have more agility than pre-nerf, and the only thing I've lost is some tracking (due to bigger guns).

I'm not having any trouble at all blapping t1 frigs, even those that are forgoing using any hislots in an effort to bulk up tank and em resists.

And I've already tried going up against garmurs too. I can out-shoot their point, and if they are not already aligned to something it might be too late for them to warp off.

So far I've had trouble with two ships, Jaguars and Wolves. That 90% base EM resist....


I guess I'm still worried about using Aurora because of that -75% tracking speed reduction. So basically you're saying that you can track a frig moving at 3km/s + without any issues? Do you use tracking rigs?


I've got all those related gunnery skills to 5, and am not using any tracking rigs or tracking implants. I've actually mixed it up a fair bit between aurora and the faction red crystal (infrared? can't remember off hand). TBH I'm getting more damage/volley with aurora.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#644 - 2015-05-04 19:35:18 UTC
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
I've got all those related gunnery skills to 5, and am not using any tracking rigs or tracking implants. I've actually mixed it up a fair bit between aurora and the faction red crystal (infrared? can't remember off hand). TBH I'm getting more damage/volley with aurora.


Aurora does the same damage as standard tech 1 crystals (the yellow ones) with more range and more capacitor consumption. It's the same with lead and spike railgun ammo.

That's why all of my beam fits have standard in the hold Smile

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#645 - 2015-05-05 10:22:58 UTC
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
Jet Silf wrote:
...Well, there may be ships that can go faster than 2600m/s, but only so many of them...


Garmur, Navy Slicer, all ceptors, Condor, Atron, Executioner, some minmatar ones...

They will all kill that Confessor in 20 seconds - the end.

I still cannot see how the Confessor was so unstoppable that this overnerf need to happen.



Dunno about that really. Post nerf I am able to put the heavier guns on, granting me an extra 15km optimal (now up to about 80+km), and an extra 40dps with aurora. I have more agility than pre-nerf, and the only thing I've lost is some tracking (due to bigger guns).

I'm not having any trouble at all blapping t1 frigs, even those that are forgoing using any hislots in an effort to bulk up tank and em resists.

And I've already tried going up against garmurs too. I can out-shoot their point, and if they are not already aligned to something it might be too late for them to warp off.

So far I've had trouble with two ships, Jaguars and Wolves. That 90% base EM resist....


I guess I'm still worried about using Aurora because of that -75% tracking speed reduction. So basically you're saying that you can track a frig moving at 3km/s + without any issues? Do you use tracking rigs?


I've got all those related gunnery skills to 5, and am not using any tracking rigs or tracking implants. I've actually mixed it up a fair bit between aurora and the faction red crystal (infrared? can't remember off hand). TBH I'm getting more damage/volley with aurora.


My gunnery support skills are all maxed as well. I'm seeing 216 cold dps with aurora out to 49/52 km in prop mode. This looks promising, the only ships that can engage over that range is the Garmur ( 60km's while moving at 6-7km/s). With the 1 MN MWD in Prop mode+links, I'm seeing speeds at 2.9km/s, with the 1MN AB it's not even funny (1.2km/s in Prop+links). I wish CCP just left the base speed intact. I sure hope in the next balance pass they give back the confessor's base speed, this ship is just too slow as is. Every fight you engage is a committed fight now, so you gotta bulk up that tank to dual/triple rep+ dual nos if you want to survive.
Solj RichPopolous
Silent Havok.
H A R D L I N E R S
#646 - 2015-05-05 16:21:08 UTC
Dropped to dual lights on my confessor. dropped the aux nano pump for small t2 poly carbon. Aligns a tad bit faster than before. Still have my 10mn AB. 3700ms with the links. I will miss the extra 70 dps i had but its a small price to pay for the ship to actually still be viable in my arsenal. When a ship cant effectively oversize prop there is only 1 solution, right click --> Trash item.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#647 - 2015-05-05 17:33:52 UTC
http://i.imgur.com/dfQg7wz.png

svipul largely unaffected, confessor no longer on the list. Basically what we predicted.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#648 - 2015-05-05 18:52:54 UTC
Because Svipul remains a broken T3D conceptually - Stays in Propulsion Mode all day long.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#649 - 2015-05-05 21:26:29 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/dfQg7wz.png

svipul largely unaffected, confessor no longer on the list. Basically what we predicted.


I keep seeing the Sabre on top ship list for small scale/solo pvp, and it looks to be better than the Confessor. Darn it, I should've just train for that ship instead of the T3D's mostly because it has one powerful feature that the T3D's don't have.......NERF IMMUNITY.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#650 - 2015-05-05 23:24:01 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/dfQg7wz.png

svipul largely unaffected, confessor no longer on the list. Basically what we predicted.


I keep seeing the Sabre on top ship list for small scale/solo pvp, and it looks to be better than the Confessor. Darn it, I should've just train for that ship instead of the T3D's mostly because it has one powerful feature that the T3D's don't have.......NERF IMMUNITY.


are you confusing interdictors with an interceptors? In any case. the reason why the sabre is on top of the list is because its extremely easy to get on a km for an interdictor (due to how bubbles work etc).

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#651 - 2015-05-06 00:00:15 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/dfQg7wz.png

svipul largely unaffected, confessor no longer on the list. Basically what we predicted.


I keep seeing the Sabre on top ship list for small scale/solo pvp, and it looks to be better than the Confessor. Darn it, I should've just train for that ship instead of the T3D's mostly because it has one powerful feature that the T3D's don't have.......NERF IMMUNITY.


are you confusing interdictors with an interceptors? In any case. the reason why the sabre is on top of the list is because its extremely easy to get on a km for an interdictor (due to how bubbles work etc).


Exactly that. Whenever someone tries to warp out of your bubble, you count as a party in the engagement.

Bubbles don't give aggression timers, tho, so you can double bubble the target from inbound and outbound - a very, very severe oversight by CCP. Roll
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#652 - 2015-05-06 00:01:17 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/dfQg7wz.png

svipul largely unaffected, confessor no longer on the list. Basically what we predicted.


I keep seeing the Sabre on top ship list for small scale/solo pvp, and it looks to be better than the Confessor. Darn it, I should've just train for that ship instead of the T3D's mostly because it has one powerful feature that the T3D's don't have.......NERF IMMUNITY.


are you confusing interdictors with an interceptors? In any case. the reason why the sabre is on top of the list is because its extremely easy to get on a km for an interdictor (due to how bubbles work etc).


I see, the interdiction sphere launchers is a mechanic that I'm not at all familiar with and It seems like it has to be use with a small gang to be effective unlike soloing. I'm a noob at pvp so before I start using the Confessors/Svipul for FW I'm gonna get bashed around with the thrashers/coercers to get that PS up.
Leonardo Adami
Doomheim
#653 - 2015-05-06 15:55:28 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/dfQg7wz.png

svipul largely unaffected, confessor no longer on the list. Basically what we predicted.


Agreed. It appears that CCP tried to nerf both ships in a similar fashion which is a huge mistake because they are so very different. Hopefully they've come to understand this and don't make the same mistake when balancing the other two T3 prior to their release.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#654 - 2015-05-06 17:56:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
What second bonus does the Confessor get for its T3D Skill, with Svipul having the Proj Optimal Range?

You guessed it.

10% reduction in Small Energy Turret activation cost

/Amarr

I understand that Optimal is useless in the case of ACs, but at the same time is great for Arties, not being forced to switch between Prop/Sharpshooter almost on CD in some cases in order to merely to project damage.

I don't know, just give Svipul a small innate Tracking bonus, with a decent, not equal, Fall-Off bonus in Sharpshooter mode - Make them conceptually the same.

I await eagerly eagerly what you come up with for the next 2 T3Ds. ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#655 - 2015-05-06 19:16:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
What second bonus does the Confessor get for its T3D Skill, with Svipul having the Proj Optimal Range?

You guessed it.

10% reduction in Small Energy Turret activation cost

/Amarr

I understand that Optimal is useless in the case of ACs, but at the same time is great for Arties, not being forced to switch between Prop/Sharpshooter almost on CD in some cases in order to merely to project damage.

I don't know, just give Svipul a small innate Tracking bonus, with a decent, not equal, Fall-Off bonus in Sharpshooter mode - Make them conceptually the same.

I await eagerly eagerly what you come up with for the next 2 T3Ds. ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)


CCP seems to be completely oblivious to the handicap that 10% reduction in Small Energy Turret activation cost is to all Amarr Ships as a whole and like you said in another post "they should add it as a double bonus along with the weapon damage bonus" so that Amarr ships can get a more useful bonus in place like Optimal Range bonus. In all likelihood when the other 2 T3D's come out, the Confessor is gonna be at the bottom of the pile in that class of ships due to the Amarr handicap skill. I'm all for Amarr but CCP is forcing me to become a Heretic and migrating to the Barbarians. So for now I'm gonna abandon the Confessor and switch over to the Svipul.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#656 - 2015-05-06 20:05:05 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
What second bonus does the Confessor get for its T3D Skill, with Svipul having the Proj Optimal Range?

You guessed it.

10% reduction in Small Energy Turret activation cost

/Amarr

I understand that Optimal is useless in the case of ACs, but at the same time is great for Arties, not being forced to switch between Prop/Sharpshooter almost on CD in some cases in order to merely to project damage.

I don't know, just give Svipul a small innate Tracking bonus, with a decent, not equal, Fall-Off bonus in Sharpshooter mode - Make them conceptually the same.

I await eagerly eagerly what you come up with for the next 2 T3Ds. ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)


CCP seems to be completely oblivious to the handicap that 10% reduction in Small Energy Turret activation cost is to all Amarr Ships as a whole and like you said in another post "they should add it as a double bonus along with the weapon damage bonus" so that Amarr ships can get a more useful bonus in place like Optimal Range bonus. In all likelihood when the other 2 T3D's come out, the Confessor is gonna be at the bottom of the pile in that class of ships due to the Amarr handicap skill. I'm all for Amarr but CCP is forcing me to become a Heretic and migrating to the Barbarians. So for now I'm gonna abandon the Confessor and switch over to the Svipul.


funny because the svipul has an actual wasted bonus
Jedi VanDiemen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#657 - 2015-05-07 09:49:37 UTC
[Update EVE]
[Jump Clone to NPC Null]
[Activate Svipul]

"WTF!"
4 of the 6 AC's fit now useless. DPS now 112, hot.
#FacePalm

It's going to be a tough ride limping home.

#NERFEDinNULL


Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#658 - 2015-05-07 13:45:43 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
What second bonus does the Confessor get for its T3D Skill, with Svipul having the Proj Optimal Range?

You guessed it.

10% reduction in Small Energy Turret activation cost

/Amarr

I understand that Optimal is useless in the case of ACs, but at the same time is great for Arties, not being forced to switch between Prop/Sharpshooter almost on CD in some cases in order to merely to project damage.

I don't know, just give Svipul a small innate Tracking bonus, with a decent, not equal, Fall-Off bonus in Sharpshooter mode - Make them conceptually the same.

I await eagerly eagerly what you come up with for the next 2 T3Ds. ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)


CCP seems to be completely oblivious to the handicap that 10% reduction in Small Energy Turret activation cost is to all Amarr Ships as a whole and like you said in another post "they should add it as a double bonus along with the weapon damage bonus" so that Amarr ships can get a more useful bonus in place like Optimal Range bonus. In all likelihood when the other 2 T3D's come out, the Confessor is gonna be at the bottom of the pile in that class of ships due to the Amarr handicap skill. I'm all for Amarr but CCP is forcing me to become a Heretic and migrating to the Barbarians. So for now I'm gonna abandon the Confessor and switch over to the Svipul.

CCP's insistence on counting the cap bonus on guns as the same 'cost' or 'power' as other bonuses just shows how out of touch they tend to be in regards to amarr.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#659 - 2015-05-07 14:46:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
What second bonus does the Confessor get for its T3D Skill, with Svipul having the Proj Optimal Range?

You guessed it.

10% reduction in Small Energy Turret activation cost

/Amarr

I understand that Optimal is useless in the case of ACs, but at the same time is great for Arties, not being forced to switch between Prop/Sharpshooter almost on CD in some cases in order to merely to project damage.

I don't know, just give Svipul a small innate Tracking bonus, with a decent, not equal, Fall-Off bonus in Sharpshooter mode - Make them conceptually the same.

I await eagerly eagerly what you come up with for the next 2 T3Ds. ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)


CCP seems to be completely oblivious to the handicap that 10% reduction in Small Energy Turret activation cost is to all Amarr Ships as a whole and like you said in another post "they should add it as a double bonus along with the weapon damage bonus" so that Amarr ships can get a more useful bonus in place like Optimal Range bonus. In all likelihood when the other 2 T3D's come out, the Confessor is gonna be at the bottom of the pile in that class of ships due to the Amarr handicap skill. I'm all for Amarr but CCP is forcing me to become a Heretic and migrating to the Barbarians. So for now I'm gonna abandon the Confessor and switch over to the Svipul.

CCP's insistence on counting the cap bonus on guns as the same 'cost' or 'power' as other bonuses just shows how out of touch they tend to be in regards to amarr.


It's p bad, only saving grace for Amarr is the Scorch Ammo, and even that is 82% EM, 18% Thermal by damage vs. 58% EM and 42% Thermal for Multifrequency.

Sad
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#660 - 2015-05-07 16:02:37 UTC
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
What second bonus does the Confessor get for its T3D Skill, with Svipul having the Proj Optimal Range?

You guessed it.

10% reduction in Small Energy Turret activation cost

/Amarr

I understand that Optimal is useless in the case of ACs, but at the same time is great for Arties, not being forced to switch between Prop/Sharpshooter almost on CD in some cases in order to merely to project damage.

I don't know, just give Svipul a small innate Tracking bonus, with a decent, not equal, Fall-Off bonus in Sharpshooter mode - Make them conceptually the same.

I await eagerly eagerly what you come up with for the next 2 T3Ds. ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)


CCP seems to be completely oblivious to the handicap that 10% reduction in Small Energy Turret activation cost is to all Amarr Ships as a whole and like you said in another post "they should add it as a double bonus along with the weapon damage bonus" so that Amarr ships can get a more useful bonus in place like Optimal Range bonus. In all likelihood when the other 2 T3D's come out, the Confessor is gonna be at the bottom of the pile in that class of ships due to the Amarr handicap skill. I'm all for Amarr but CCP is forcing me to become a Heretic and migrating to the Barbarians. So for now I'm gonna abandon the Confessor and switch over to the Svipul.

CCP's insistence on counting the cap bonus on guns as the same 'cost' or 'power' as other bonuses just shows how out of touch they tend to be in regards to amarr.


It's p bad, only saving grace for Amarr is the Scorch Ammo, and even that is 82% EM, 18% Thermal by damage vs. 58% EM and 42% Thermal for Multifrequency.

Sad

All ammunition needs some kind of revamp, to be honest.