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[April] [Updated] Confessor and Svipul Balance Tweaks

First post First post
Author
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#121 - 2015-04-03 12:54:05 UTC
Vulfen wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Nalia White wrote:
[
i am speaking about the svipul here. i always flew no tank arty variant which now sadly has to be compromised even more due to the changes even with no freaking tank at all...


the fitting gap between ACs and arties is something CCP doesn't seem to care about, even though it's really dumb.



Big arty should be hard to fit.
However i do think that small arty need a small reduction in their cost.


so should big ACs. but currently if you want to use ACs on what ccp decides is an 'artillery ship', you get infinite fitting, and if you want to use artillery on an AC ship, you can't
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#122 - 2015-04-03 13:46:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Syrias Bizniz
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. As we mentioned on the o7 show today, we're making some balance changes to the Confessor and Svipul in our April release.
We are extremely happy that so many people are having fun with these new ships and we are committed to keeping them powerful and exciting, but we ideally want that power and excitement to mainly come from the new mode switching mechanic, and less from the base stats of the ship outclassing its competition. At the moment these ships are a little bit too strong and provide a bit too much vale for their cost. We've been listening to a lot of feedback on these ships from many players (including at Fanfest) and we're ready to make a few tweaks.

The biggest area of change in this release will be in fitting. Both the Confessor and Svipul will be losing some powergrid to ensure that fitting choices for them are interesting and to pull back the power of some very high-PG fits.

We're also increasing the build requirements of both of these ships to bring them closer to our original target price and to help ensure that the value you get for the cost of the ship is reasonable.

The rest of the changes are more minor, but they involve small reductions in speed, agility and mass, as well as capacitor and shield recharge rates.


    Confessor:
  • Powergrid: 71 (-9)
  • Max Velocity: 250 (-30)
  • Mass: 2,200,000kg (-200,000)
  • Shield Recharge Time: 800s (+175s)
  • Inertia: 2.4 (+0.25)
  • Capacitor Recharge Time: 320s (+20s)

  • Svipul:
  • Powergrid: 68 (-10)
  • Max Velocity: 270 (-20)
  • Shield Recharge Time: 800s (+175s)
  • Capacitor Recharge Time: 240s (+15s)

Material Requirements:
+1 to each of Electromechanical Interface Nexus, Fullerene Intercalated Sheets, Optimized Nano-engines, Reconfigured Subspace Calibrator, Self-Assembling Nanolattice, Warfare Computation Core

These changes are intentionally limited in scope as we want to take advantage of our rapid release cadence to make small changes and observe effects. We are very interested in hearing your feedback!




Fare thee well, 280mm Kite Svipul.
Edit:
I'm using a fit with 280mm, a MSE, a 1mn MWD.
To get this **** crammed into the ship i already need an Auxillary Power Control and a T2 Ancillary Current Router.
And to round the fit out i used Geno Cores 1&2 + a 3% CPU imp.

Sooo, with 10 PG gone. How exactly am i supposed to use Artillery on the Svipul?
250mms and shoot LR ammo cause if i used PP i might aswell fit Autos?
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#123 - 2015-04-03 14:55:37 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. As we mentioned on the o7 show today, we're making some balance changes to the Confessor and Svipul in our April release.
We are extremely happy that so many people are having fun with these new ships and we are committed to keeping them powerful and exciting, but we ideally want that power and excitement to mainly come from the new mode switching mechanic, and less from the base stats of the ship outclassing its competition. At the moment these ships are a little bit too strong and provide a bit too much vale for their cost. We've been listening to a lot of feedback on these ships from many players (including at Fanfest) and we're ready to make a few tweaks.

The biggest area of change in this release will be in fitting. Both the Confessor and Svipul will be losing some powergrid to ensure that fitting choices for them are interesting and to pull back the power of some very high-PG fits.

We're also increasing the build requirements of both of these ships to bring them closer to our original target price and to help ensure that the value you get for the cost of the ship is reasonable.

The rest of the changes are more minor, but they involve small reductions in speed, agility and mass, as well as capacitor and shield recharge rates.


    Confessor:
  • Powergrid: 71 (-9)
  • Max Velocity: 250 (-30)
  • Mass: 2,200,000kg (-200,000)
  • Shield Recharge Time: 800s (+175s)
  • Inertia: 2.4 (+0.25)
  • Capacitor Recharge Time: 320s (+20s)

  • Svipul:
  • Powergrid: 68 (-10)
  • Max Velocity: 270 (-20)
  • Shield Recharge Time: 800s (+175s)
  • Capacitor Recharge Time: 240s (+15s)

Material Requirements:
+1 to each of Electromechanical Interface Nexus, Fullerene Intercalated Sheets, Optimized Nano-engines, Reconfigured Subspace Calibrator, Self-Assembling Nanolattice, Warfare Computation Core

These changes are intentionally limited in scope as we want to take advantage of our rapid release cadence to make small changes and observe effects. We are very interested in hearing your feedback!




Fare thee well, 280mm Kite Svipul.
Edit:
I'm using a fit with 280mm, a MSE, a 1mn MWD.
To get this **** crammed into the ship i already need an Auxillary Power Control and a T2 Ancillary Current Router.
And to round the fit out i used Geno Cores 1&2 + a 3% CPU imp.

Sooo, with 10 PG gone. How exactly am i supposed to use Artillery on the Svipul?
250mms and shoot LR ammo cause if i used PP i might aswell fit Autos?


use masb or saar. you're not supposed to be able to fit absolutely everything.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#124 - 2015-04-03 17:29:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Syrias Bizniz
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. As we mentioned on the o7 show today, we're making some balance changes to the Confessor and Svipul in our April release.
We are extremely happy that so many people are having fun with these new ships and we are committed to keeping them powerful and exciting, but we ideally want that power and excitement to mainly come from the new mode switching mechanic, and less from the base stats of the ship outclassing its competition. At the moment these ships are a little bit too strong and provide a bit too much vale for their cost. We've been listening to a lot of feedback on these ships from many players (including at Fanfest) and we're ready to make a few tweaks.

The biggest area of change in this release will be in fitting. Both the Confessor and Svipul will be losing some powergrid to ensure that fitting choices for them are interesting and to pull back the power of some very high-PG fits.

We're also increasing the build requirements of both of these ships to bring them closer to our original target price and to help ensure that the value you get for the cost of the ship is reasonable.

The rest of the changes are more minor, but they involve small reductions in speed, agility and mass, as well as capacitor and shield recharge rates.


    Confessor:
  • Powergrid: 71 (-9)
  • Max Velocity: 250 (-30)
  • Mass: 2,200,000kg (-200,000)
  • Shield Recharge Time: 800s (+175s)
  • Inertia: 2.4 (+0.25)
  • Capacitor Recharge Time: 320s (+20s)

  • Svipul:
  • Powergrid: 68 (-10)
  • Max Velocity: 270 (-20)
  • Shield Recharge Time: 800s (+175s)
  • Capacitor Recharge Time: 240s (+15s)

Material Requirements:
+1 to each of Electromechanical Interface Nexus, Fullerene Intercalated Sheets, Optimized Nano-engines, Reconfigured Subspace Calibrator, Self-Assembling Nanolattice, Warfare Computation Core

These changes are intentionally limited in scope as we want to take advantage of our rapid release cadence to make small changes and observe effects. We are very interested in hearing your feedback!




Fare thee well, 280mm Kite Svipul.
Edit:
I'm using a fit with 280mm, a MSE, a 1mn MWD.
To get this **** crammed into the ship i already need an Auxillary Power Control and a T2 Ancillary Current Router.
And to round the fit out i used Geno Cores 1&2 + a 3% CPU imp.

Sooo, with 10 PG gone. How exactly am i supposed to use Artillery on the Svipul?
250mms and shoot LR ammo cause if i used PP i might aswell fit Autos?


use masb or saar. you're not supposed to be able to fit absolutely everything.


I'm using 2 fitting mods and 3 imps to make a fit work.
If i now had to use a MASB instead of the MSE, i'd wonder where i should pull the CPU from. Cause i will still need the 2 fitting mods.

Edit:
And this is not some very-special-snowflake-fit, this is using artilleries on an artilleryplatform.
Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2015-04-03 17:34:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Prometheus Exenthal
Nalia White wrote:
well i know for a fact you are bitter of destroyer hulls in general :P

What? I fly T1 Destroyers all the time. I hate the T3Ds and Mordus ships, and I think they are cancerous to this game.

I agree that the oversized mods are what break these ships.
The best tracking cruiser in the game (Thorax) can't hit a 10mn Svipul without gimping its fit to do so.

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#126 - 2015-04-03 18:04:29 UTC
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:
Nalia White wrote:
well i know for a fact you are bitter of destroyer hulls in general :P

What? I fly T1 Destroyers all the time. I hate the T3Ds and Mordus ships, and I think they are cancerous to this game.

I agree that the oversized mods are what break these ships.
The best tracking cruiser in the game (Thorax) can't hit a 10mn Svipul without gimping its fit to do so.


Prometheus dear,
Mordus ships are not so bad unless someone links them. But then all other ships are op too when linked. Actually what you do not like are light missiles.

In case of the minmatar d3 you are correct, they are just silly and everyone knows it. Confessors on the other hand are not as terrible as some folks make them out to be.

The minmatar ones are the cream on the cupcake here and earned a few more nerfes than they currently get.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#127 - 2015-04-03 18:24:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
random svipul fits which are unaffected by the fitting changes.

375dps tank and 548 (cold) dps tank. Both cap stable.

No implants or drugs (you might need 2% grid for one of them, depends how the grid changes are calculated. i did that in my head)

thats why i said confessor and svipul should not get the same treatment since they both have different power levels.


[Svipul, passivel]

Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Medium Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II
Warp Scrambler II

[Empty High slot]
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion S

Small Core Defense Field Purger II
Small Core Defense Field Purger II
Small Core Defense Field Purger II




[Svipul, active]

Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Damage Control II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster

[Empty High slot]
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S

Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II
Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Small Capacitor Control Circuit II


edit: ops i pasted the same fit twice. fixed

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Nalia White
Tencus
#128 - 2015-04-03 18:30:14 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
random svipul fits which are unaffected by the fitting changes.

375dps tank and 548 (cold) dps tank. Both cap stable.

No implants or drugs (you might need 2% grid for one of them, depends how the grid changes are calculated. i did that in my head)

thats why i said confessor and svipul should not get the same treatment since they both have different power levels.

[Svipul, passive]

Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Damage Control II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster

[Empty High slot]
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S

Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II
Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Small Capacitor Control Circuit II


[Svipul, active]

Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Damage Control II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster

[Empty High slot]
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S

Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II
Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Small Capacitor Control Circuit II



you must be joking right?

Syndicate - K5-JRD

Home to few, graveyard for many

My biggest achievement

Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#129 - 2015-04-03 18:35:21 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Mordus ships are not so bad unless someone links them. But then all other ships are op too when linked. Actually what you do not like are light missiles.


I'm sorry, but the Orthrus is a ship that makes no sense.
It's true, RLMLs have pretty much ruined frigate pvp since the offer high damage that cannot be negated (unless youre in a T3D).
Replace the blanket missile bonus with HAM/HML & nuke its agility.

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT

Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#130 - 2015-04-03 18:52:50 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. As we mentioned on the o7 show today, we're making some balance changes to the Confessor and Svipul in our April release.
We are extremely happy that so many people are having fun with these new ships and we are committed to keeping them powerful and exciting, but we ideally want that power and excitement to mainly come from the new mode switching mechanic, and less from the base stats of the ship outclassing its competition. At the moment these ships are a little bit too strong and provide a bit too much vale for their cost. We've been listening to a lot of feedback on these ships from many players (including at Fanfest) and we're ready to make a few tweaks.

The biggest area of change in this release will be in fitting. Both the Confessor and Svipul will be losing some powergrid to ensure that fitting choices for them are interesting and to pull back the power of some very high-PG fits.

We're also increasing the build requirements of both of these ships to bring them closer to our original target price and to help ensure that the value you get for the cost of the ship is reasonable.

The rest of the changes are more minor, but they involve small reductions in speed, agility and mass, as well as capacitor and shield recharge rates.


    Confessor:
  • Powergrid: 71 (-9)
  • Max Velocity: 250 (-30)
  • Mass: 2,200,000kg (-200,000)
  • Shield Recharge Time: 800s (+175s)
  • Inertia: 2.4 (+0.25)
  • Capacitor Recharge Time: 320s (+20s)

  • Svipul:
  • Powergrid: 68 (-10)
  • Max Velocity: 270 (-20)
  • Shield Recharge Time: 800s (+175s)
  • Capacitor Recharge Time: 240s (+15s)

Material Requirements:
+1 to each of Electromechanical Interface Nexus, Fullerene Intercalated Sheets, Optimized Nano-engines, Reconfigured Subspace Calibrator, Self-Assembling Nanolattice, Warfare Computation Core

These changes are intentionally limited in scope as we want to take advantage of our rapid release cadence to make small changes and observe effects. We are very interested in hearing your feedback!




Fare thee well, 280mm Kite Svipul.
Edit:
I'm using a fit with 280mm, a MSE, a 1mn MWD.
To get this **** crammed into the ship i already need an Auxillary Power Control and a T2 Ancillary Current Router.
And to round the fit out i used Geno Cores 1&2 + a 3% CPU imp.

Sooo, with 10 PG gone. How exactly am i supposed to use Artillery on the Svipul?
250mms and shoot LR ammo cause if i used PP i might aswell fit Autos?


use masb or saar. you're not supposed to be able to fit absolutely everything.


I'm using 2 fitting mods and 3 imps to make a fit work.
If i now had to use a MASB instead of the MSE, i'd wonder where i should pull the CPU from. Cause i will still need the 2 fitting mods.

Edit:
And this is not some very-special-snowflake-fit, this is using artilleries on an artilleryplatform.


Welcome to CCPs love affair of making arty fits not viable on arty ships.

Tbh though, MASB/mwd/280s should still be doable after nerf. I can fit it now with only 1 acr. I have additional rig slots available too (polycarb) or drop a nano for Mapc. I think we can manage.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#131 - 2015-04-03 18:55:27 UTC
Nalia White wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
random svipul fits which are unaffected by the fitting changes.

375dps tank and 548 (cold) dps tank. Both cap stable.

No implants or drugs (you might need 2% grid for one of them, depends how the grid changes are calculated. i did that in my head)

thats why i said confessor and svipul should not get the same treatment since they both have different power levels.

[Svipul, passive]

Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Damage Control II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster

[Empty High slot]
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S

Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II
Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Small Capacitor Control Circuit II


[Svipul, active]

Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Damage Control II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster

[Empty High slot]
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S

Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II
Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Small Capacitor Control Circuit II



you must be joking right?


Is gud fit. vOv

LOL
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#132 - 2015-04-03 20:21:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Syrias Bizniz
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:




Is gud fit. vOv

LOL


Actually it's an impressive fit.
Some of you maybe know the Breacher, right? Uses the same damn strat, and tanks like a massive ****.

This seems weird, as you realized, but if you have to fight this thing in a 1v1 you'll be like WTF.
Even in a 2v1 or 3v1.

Bienator here is some really impressive FW pilot, he probably knows more about working fits on frig / dessie scale than most other eve-players.


On topic again:

It seems to me that the intent of this nerf is to discourage people from fitting oversized Propmods to these dessies.

If we look at 1mn Propmods, we can see a 10pg need for ABs and 15pg for MWDs. --> AB = 66% Grid need of MWD
On 100mn, we can see 625pg need for ABs and 1250pg for MWDs (Numbers from head, don't nail me here!) --> AB = 50% Grid need of MWD.

If we'd extrapolate this relationship, we'd come to the conclusion that on 10mn, the AB should require 58% of MWD pg.

However, the AB takes 50pg and the MWD takes 150. That's 33%.


Hooooow about: We increase 10mn AB pg requirements to 100 instead of 50, and give all cruisers +50 powergrid?
This will keep their viability with 10mn AB fits, and slightly increase their fitting on MWD fits.
Same for BCs.


Edit:

This would make it near impossible to overprop a dessie.
It would also help several Minmatar Cruisers in fitting Arties, as they usually run MWD and would benefit from a +50pg buff.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#133 - 2015-04-04 04:33:35 UTC
aren't ABs next on the tiericide list?

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Cade Windstalker
#134 - 2015-04-04 06:12:29 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
random svipul fits which are unaffected by the fitting changes.

375dps tank and 548 (cold) dps tank. Both cap stable.

No implants or drugs (you might need 2% grid for one of them, depends how the grid changes are calculated. i did that in my head)

thats why i said confessor and svipul should not get the same treatment since they both have different power levels.


[Svipul, passivel]

...SNIP for post length...




[Svipul, active]

...SNIP for post length...


edit: ops i pasted the same fit twice. fixed


A quick check on both fits shows that the first one is a *lot* tighter on PG coming in just 1 PG under the new max (85PG, FYI) with maxed skills, meaning it now requires all-5s on the relevant fitting skills instead of being a fairly loose fit for the ship. The second one does, indeed, require a PG implant which means it's making a small trade-off as well as needing max skills (or a bigger implant).

Also the passive fit is affected by the shield recharge changes, and both are affected by the top speed nerf and the cap changes. It's not a huge change by any means, but it's still very much there.
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#135 - 2015-04-04 08:20:59 UTC
I have removed a disrespectful, borderline trollish post. Please be respectful if you want to continue participating on our forums.

Quote:
2. Be respectful toward others at all times.

The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.

ISD Decoy

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Zavand Crendraven
Rolling Static
Wardec Mechanics
#136 - 2015-04-05 02:40:40 UTC
I believe this is the completely wrong way to go around the issue as it really doesnt fix a damn thing about the insane fitting freedom the Svipul will still be able to pull of a 10mn AB dual masb fit without a single fitting rig or mod and the speed nerf only makes it ~7% slower. See this fit:

[Svipul, 10mn Dual MASB]
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Shadow Serpentis 10MN Afterburner
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
[empty high slot]
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]

Fits without a single fitting rig or implant even after the patch has hit and its speed will go down with like 200m/s

So do note that im not taking AWU into account below cuz im to lazy to remove 10% PWG on everything it applies to.

So whats my idea? Well give all the T3 dessies a 50% PWG reduction to all weapons fit on them (possibly apply this to CPU too) then nuke their PWG by 3 times the most PWG demanding weapon system they can fit. For instance the Svipul it would be the 280mm Arty which is 13 PWG meaning you would reduce the PWG of the svipul with 39 PWG which is quite a bit more than the measily 12.5 PWG it losses now (its 12.5 PWG since 10 PWG is before bonuses are applied).

So how exactly will this help? The 10mn fits works pretty much solely because swapping down weapons gives an insane amount of free PWG for instance the svipul was made to be able to fit Arty so it needs a huge amount of PWG to do this meaning if you swap down from 280mm Arty to 125mm ACs you will get 12 'free' power grid for each weapon which comes down to 6 on the svipul meaning an 125mm AC fit will have 72 (with a 50% reduction it would 'only' be 36 PWG) more PWG left over a 280mm Arty fit. Thats pretty much the whole 10mn AB and one of the MASB right there (even after the AWU is taken into account). The same applies to the confessor too however it cant make quite such a ridiculous amount of free PWG from swapping down weapon system it can still make a lot. The Dual vs Focused beam lasers for instance is 8 vs 13 PWG thats 30 (with a 50% bonus it would be 15PWG ) free PWG right there when swapping down. After adding the proposed bonus and nuking the PWG the fitting difference would be reduced immensely and while still likely to need some tweaks in terms of fitting ability it will allow to still fit more stuff like Arty without giving a roflmao amount of extra PWG if one decides to run a AC fit.

Ofc this would only help on the fitting issues the ships are still hilariously fcking fast with the Svipul fit im running doing 3400m/s cold in propulsion mode and having a 3.1s align time which is on par with or usually better most frigates. While my fit does have a nano and an astro-rig this is just way to much speed for something with 9 efficient turrets where as most other ships that can go this fast is stuck at usually 3.75 effective turrets. While the 20m/s base speed nerf would make it slower (3165m/s) its just not enough its still ridiculously fast and agile for the amount of DPS it dishes out. I would think that putting the propulsion mode down to something like a 22% inertia and a 44% speed bonus added with a base speed reduction would do nicely. For my fit the speed would drop from 3400m/s down to 2746m/s if the Svipul base speed was reduced by 20m/s and bonus was reduced from 66% to 44% (a 19.25% total reduction in speed). The 33% to 22% inertia bonus would result in about 15% more inertia.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#137 - 2015-04-05 02:55:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
Zavand Crendraven wrote:

So whats my idea? Well give all the T3 dessies a 50% PWG reduction to all weapons fit on them (possibly apply this to CPU too) then nuke their PWG by 3 times the most PWG demanding weapon system they can fit.


Best idea yet - without having to tinker with either small arty, AC or 10MN AB fittings. Blink

BCs with 1400mm Howitzers and Tachyons came out of nowhere, so CCP has experience with this, only that there's a valid problem and a valid Lore-compatible solution this time - advances in T3 Sleeper tech. Smile
Cade Windstalker
#138 - 2015-04-05 04:49:43 UTC
Zavand Crendraven wrote:
I believe this is the completely wrong way to go around the issue as it really doesnt fix a damn thing about the insane fitting freedom the Svipul will still be able to pull of a 10mn AB dual masb fit without a single fitting rig or mod and the speed nerf only makes it ~7% slower. See this fit:

[Svipul, 10mn Dual MASB]
...SNIP for space...

Fits without a single fitting rig or implant even after the patch has hit and its speed will go down with like 200m/s

So do note that im not taking AWU into account below cuz im to lazy to remove 10% PWG on everything it applies to.

So whats my idea? Well give all the T3 dessies a 50% PWG reduction to all weapons fit on them (possibly apply this to CPU too) then nuke their PWG by 3 times the most PWG demanding weapon system they can fit. For instance the Svipul it would be the 280mm Arty which is 13 PWG meaning you would reduce the PWG of the svipul with 39 PWG which is quite a bit more than the measily 12.5 PWG it losses now (its 12.5 PWG since 10 PWG is before bonuses are applied).


Couple of quick counter-points. One, that's the smallest size of AC. Currently that same fit works with 150mm ACs (the next size up) with only a 2% CPU implant or a rig, and 200mm ACs with a fitting rig and a PG implant After the changes 200mm ACs are completely out the window (or require T2 fitting rigs or a low-slot module, not sure of the exact numbers), and the 150s require at the least a significant fitting trade-off. Also after the changes the above fit is a lot tighter, so if you don't have good fitting skills it won't work without trade-offs either. The 200m/s is also fairly significant. That's more applied damage, and more ships that are now capable of catching the Svipul easily, including a number of MWD AF fits.

I think the point of this change isn't to completely remove over-sized prop mods as an option on these ships, just like CCP haven't done that to the T3 Cruisers. Your proposed change is a massive change, where as this is a small tweak that CCP can then watch and iterate on since it will take less time to settle down and they can more readily analyze the impact.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#139 - 2015-04-05 10:40:58 UTC
you shouldn't even be able to fit 10mn with 2 masbs with all empty highs.
Judas II
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#140 - 2015-04-05 11:34:10 UTC
Hi CCP,

Semi related to this thread, have you considered simply restricting prop mods to ship size? Ie 1MN only fits on Frigs/Dessies, 10MN only fits on Cruiser/BC, etc.? Be honest, nobody likes 100MN Tengus anyway.