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How to stop bumping or hyperdunking of a freighter?

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Author
Mendak
Lambent Enterprises
#1 - 2015-05-04 15:28:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Mendak
With current game mechanics, is there any way to stop a machariel from indefinitely bumping a freighter, or to prevent an active hyperdunk?

I'm not here to be all butt hurt, but it seems to me that there is literally no counter to this, aside from maybe logging off immediately if you see a machariel?

I have tried webbing alts and clever steering and such, but it seems like there is literally nothing I can do.
Hipqo
Tyde8
#2 - 2015-05-04 15:36:34 UTC
As far as i know, you can have logi ships, actively repping your freighter, without ever being a valid target to the attackers, or did they change that?
If thats still the case, i would say your only chance is bringing logi and hoping they can keep the freighter alive, untill CONCORD does its thing, but i honestly dont know if it would work.

The only other thing to do, is engage who ever is engaging you, but it wont do anything as the attacker would most likely enjoy it and be enclined to engage you again, because you put up a fight.

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Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#3 - 2015-05-04 15:41:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Moac Tor
Just shoot them back. Once they engage, I expect in catalysts, then you can easily kill them with any combat ship.

The macharial bumping, I don't think there is much you can do about that, just hope that he gets bored.
Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2015-05-04 15:44:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Daerrol
Hyperdunking requires a few pilots. like 4? at least... a Machariel to bump, a Bowhead and 1-2 catalysts. As such, for a single account/player to counter the work of 4+ players is hard. EVE is a game that really rewards group play. So "solo" I'm not sure there is much you can do. 2-3 well tanked logi should make anything but a large group unable to break you, and the logi can AB around making them hard to effectively bump and thus be dunked themselves.

TL:DR Logi and/or friends. Counter Hyperdunk their Bowhead/Machariel
Lilliana Stelles
#5 - 2015-05-04 15:45:49 UTC
I've had some success getting out of gank attempts in a Freighter. Make sure you have maximum navigation/agility skills and a nano or istab in your fit somewhere so you can align faster. Scout out the systems you'll be going through beforehand, particularly the .5 areas (Uedama, Niarja). Scatter bookmarks around the system in literally every direction from the gate (they don't have to be far, a few hundred km is fine), and have them displayed in space. When you get bumped, double click in space in the direction you are bumped, and then spam the warp to button with the bookmark or celestial that's most closely in line with the direction you've been bumped in. With any luck the first or second bump will end up backfiring on the bumper and giving you an insta-warp that's off-grid. You'll be able to align to the next gate before they catch up to you.

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Mendak
Lambent Enterprises
#6 - 2015-05-04 15:47:44 UTC
I'm okay with the idea of logis countering an active gank.

But how do I stop the bumping. Especially a guy who is bumping me for half an hour that might have a character resetting my logoff timer now and then, in a noob ship?

Like I said, I'm not butt hurt or anything, but it seems like a broken game mechanic, if there is nothing that can actualy be done.
Hengle Teron
Rorquals Anonymous
Two Maidens One Chalice
#7 - 2015-05-04 15:49:47 UTC
grab a ceptor alt and fly infront of the bump freighter and warp to that alt
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2015-05-04 15:51:47 UTC
Mendak wrote:
With current game mechanics, is there any way to stop a machariel from indefinitely bumping a freighter, or to prevent an active hyperdunk?

I'm not here to be all butt hurt, but it seems to me that there is literally no counter to this, aside from maybe logging off immediately if you see a machariel?

I have tried webbing alts and clever steering and such, but it seems like there is literally nothing I can do.


You didn't try webbing alts, because if you did, you'd have noticed they are obscenely effective. Not perfect, but very effective.

I recently ran around as a webbing guy for a freighter friend of mine. What you hear is true - freighters WILL go into warp sideways if you web them right. It doesn't work instantly every time, but it works instantly like half the time, depending on what speed everyone was going and all that. And it does dramatically cut down on time to get to warp for the freighter. Remember that any bumping ship needs to eyeball you and start a bowling ball run at you before it can do anything. And yes, that does give you enough time to be webbed into warp and out of the way before he broadsides you.

I use a hyena for 30km webs. Maybe your friend or alt may want to use an interceptor just in case you do actually get bumped, they can MWD out to 150km for you to get a warp-to. It's complicated sometimes, but there's plenty of things you can do. Webbing is awesome as it is the first line* and best line of defense.

*If you don't include scouting, which your web buddy can totally do for you too. Have him take the gate before you. "Uh, a dozen Talos on this side of gate, maybe log off and continue this journey later..."
Mendak
Lambent Enterprises
#9 - 2015-05-04 15:55:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Mendak
Khan Wrenth wrote:
[quote=Mendak]
You didn't try webbing alts, because if you did, you'd have noticed they are obscenely effective.


Uh, yes, I did. You don't understand.

Webbing a freighter to get into warp initially is super fast. However, if the Mach gets a bump on you in time, then there is nothing you can do with webbing that will get you into warp. I have tried all kinds of combinations of when to start webbing, turning it off, etc, while being bumped. With dual webbers even.

I don't need you to tell me the basics of how webbing and scouting work.

Edit: And getting 150km infront of the feighter doesn't work, because you are going too fast to warp, once bumped. You can only warp if you are between 75% and 100% of speed, it seems. Over 100% = no warp.
Solecist Project
#10 - 2015-05-04 15:58:52 UTC
How do I instauneock then when my ship is over 100% speed?

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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#11 - 2015-05-04 16:01:57 UTC
The fact that this almost indefinite "stalemate" situation can arise does indicate we have a broken game mechanic. The multiple bookmark idea is the only one I've heard of that has a chance to get you out, but it requires quite a bit of work beforehand.

Maybe someone should start selling bookmark packs. And remember: Space has three dimensions.

As far as CCP changing the mechanic, so far they have not indicated they are even thinking about it. I proposed: any ship that has its warp drive active for 2 minutes straight will always warp, irrelevant of its velocity. At least that way the other side at least has to keep bringing rookie ships fitted with a point every two minutes.

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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#12 - 2015-05-04 16:07:26 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
How do I instauneock then when my ship is over 100% speed?

Its actually not "over 100%", its some higher percentage that blocks warp. But there does seem to be some higher speed, above which you do not warp. If the bumper keeps you above that speed, you cannot warp, even if aligned. At least I think that's how it works, I should check it out.

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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#13 - 2015-05-04 17:21:37 UTC  |  Edited by: BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Vincent Athena wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
How do I instauneock then when my ship is over 100% speed?

Its actually not "over 100%", its some higher percentage that blocks warp. But there does seem to be some higher speed, above which you do not warp. If the bumper keeps you above that speed, you cannot warp, even if aligned. At least I think that's how it works, I should check it out.

The bumper keeps you outside of the 5 degree angle in line with the target. The higher speed is just beneficial because it makes it take longer for your ship to drop speed and align to the correct vector. Its surprisingly difficult to get the warp direction to a fleetmate at the correct angle.

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Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#14 - 2015-05-04 17:34:40 UTC
Get an alt set up at a warp-able distance away from the freighter in the same direction that the mach is bumping you. Then web it from there to where you want.

This assumes that the distance is far enough away that the mach can't close the distance and get another bump in before aligning tot he intended destination with webs.

The Drake is a Lie

Ikiki Satou
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#15 - 2015-05-04 17:38:47 UTC
I dualbox freighter with a webbing/scouting buddy - T1 frig with 2-3 webs:


  • web/scout jump first and decloaks
  • if deemed safe, freighter jumps and holds cloak
  • webber approaches freighter so it's in lock/web range - freigher is still cloaked, but from one screen one can judge the relative positions of freighter and webber so one can navigate from ther other screen (dual-boxing, remember)
  • freighter initiates warp and decloaks
  • webber immediately locks and webs - freighter warps instantly with the completion of the lock
  • webber warps to next gate, waits the timer and jumps. Usually the freighter has not yet arrived by the time the timer expires.


That said, nobody has ever tried to gank my freighter, so the above procedure is not tested in practice. Roll

Mag's
Azn Empire
#16 - 2015-05-04 17:58:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Hyperdunking is easily avoidable if you are active and have friends.

Bumping may require a little more work once you are caught, but then that simply means you failed in the first place.
To say nothing can be done is dishonest and talks of poor use of the current options available.

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Black Pedro
Mine.
#17 - 2015-05-04 18:21:35 UTC
Mendak wrote:
I'm okay with the idea of logis countering an active gank.

But how do I stop the bumping. Especially a guy who is bumping me for half an hour that might have a character resetting my logoff timer now and then, in a noob ship?

Like I said, I'm not butt hurt or anything, but it seems like a broken game mechanic, if there is nothing that can actualy be done.

Ideas include: warping to a fleet member 150+km ahead of you in the direction being bumped; counter bumping the bumper; bumping your freighter towards a celestial; paying a ransom; ganking the bumping-fit Machariel; logging off temporarily to see if the bumper is really going to try to gank you and hopefully disappearing from space; offloading your cargo to a DST/Orca; or if you think the bumper isn't going to gank you but just looking for a ransom just go AFK and let them waste their time.

Really though if you have let yourself be caught you have already lost. Don't fly your unprotected capital ship around without a webbing escort. Bumping is the major risk to using freighters. If you must use them mitigate that risk with an escort and scouts. Otherwise, just fly a bumping-immune DST or Orca.
Memphis Baas
#18 - 2015-05-04 18:27:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
Easy way out of bumping would be MJD on freighters. I know you're all going to scream bloody murder, but there it is, and it's only half a chance for the freighter to align to something and warp out before the Machariel MWD's to him.

If you catch an AFK pilot it's not an issue, they won't be at the keyboard to activate the MJD.

Once the suicide crew engages, it should be possible to keep the cap drained enough, and/or intermittent or rotating scrams on the freighter to prevent MJD use (CCP may have to adjust the MJD or the freighter stats to ensure that keeping the cap drained is feasible).

You just won't have the capability for one Machariel to hold the prey indefinitely without flags or aggro until you all take your sweet time assembling and going half-way across the map to gank it.
000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
#19 - 2015-05-04 18:45:43 UTC
Hm... I thought bumping someone over and over and over, thus preventing them from docking/jumping/going places was actually considered griefing and petitionable? Did that change or am i just wrong?

Now i know eve isn't a fair place, but this just seems wrong, cuz if this is true u can keep doing it without any consequences.
Freya Sertan
Doomheim
#20 - 2015-05-04 18:50:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Freya Sertan
000Hunter000 wrote:
Hm... I thought bumping someone over and over and over, thus preventing them from docking/jumping/going places was actually considered griefing and petitionable? Did that change or am i just wrong?

Now i know eve isn't a fair place, but this just seems wrong, cuz if this is true u can keep doing it without any consequences.


You're wrong. Because as mentioned above, there are plenty of ways out of a bump.

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