EVE General Discussion

You need about a month. I was winning fights with frigate skill at 4, 600k sp in Navigation, and with imperfect gunnery supports, you know.

Indeed, I'm curious how far you can take an undefensible argument.


You haven't replied to my last two posts, by the way (269 and 280).

Does that mean you admit that it's quite possible to successfully PVP in EVE no matter the skillpoints?


And please don't say you've lost this argument just because I have more forum SP than you...

This thread needs some serious moderation =/

I just hope no new people actually take Basil's lack of knowledge as fact.

It's a pity we can't prove this by giving say 10 veteran solo pvpers a new char with like 6 weeks worth of SP to spend how they see fit and see how they do over a month or two. It would educate some of these people ranting about things they don't understand.

It's such a pity this thread has been deviated off the original subject. Although if a high enough proportion of non pvpers are misguided enough to believe it's only for high SP characters then that's something CCP needs to address.

I don't know why SP has become such a talking point. SP certainly plays a role in how well you can bring out the potential in your ships, but the bulk of success and failure in PVP situations comes down to awareness and what you're fielding vs. what you're opponent(s) bring against you.

The irony here is that some folks accusing the capsuleer of not wanting to engage are the cause of the behavior. They fail to include themselves in the calculations for risk. For all the glorious tales of the 10 year veteran downshipping into t1 frigs and t1 guns and going on apparent bushido roams, there are 10 more leveraging their years and years of isk on logi, link, ecm alts; or entire corps that will drop caps or carriers on anyone "brave" enough to undock a fleet that might actually kill one of their HAC or T3 subcap fleets.

So fleets and individuals don't take what it 90% of the time bait, because they are so "risk averse" and the vets are left wondering why. It is a sandbox game, and there is nothing wrong with the tactics in and of themselves; whether hotdropping or using neutral assistance it boils down to overwhelming the opponent with insurmountable force. Players don't get any benefit for not stacking deck and everything to lose for not doing. In this game so why wouldn't you if you are able?

The issue really arises from players no being able to because of whatever the reason, being unable to or unwilling to commit the amount of isk to level the playing field themselves or through diplomacy getting allies, so they are extremely selective in their fights, if they take any at all. But again, sandbox, what is good for the good is good for the gander and if one side can borderline eliminate risk to themselves with isk, numbers, and subterfuge the other should be able to not be there for the ambush in the first place. Players are the #1 determining factor of risk. That is why null and wh's are probably less dangerous than much of low security space even though if the game lore seems to hint at the prior two being more dangerous. That is a player created situation.

Anyway, that the one element of the game population directly influences the behaviors of another means the sandbox works as intended. The behavior that wins a player fights could also be behavior that denies them future fights as your opponents adapt and learn.

One way to avoid losing is to win. The other way to avoid losing is not to fight at all. The current state of the game just makes the second the most easily executable option. And it's not just carebears that employ it i.e. the "weaponized boredom" philosophies of warfare CCP is seeking to alleviate or eliminate.

PvP for the sake of PvP is meaningless. There are a multitude of objectives and goals in EVE - remember, the sandbox does have walls after all.

The majority of the players are very goal-oriented team players, who love to multitask their link and falcon alts. They have no problem blueballing their opponents when it's for the good of the corp, and they rise up to the challenge when they need to defend their collective well-being. They maintain a bare minimum of activity whilst successfully negotiating the terms for continued operation in New Eden, and constantly develop new tactics and strategies to move towards the completion of the next goal. That is how they manage to do five years' worth of stable economic growth in only four!

Unfortunately, I feel like your qualities do not meet our standards. We have no choice but to let you go, Taron.

You claim to speak on behalf of the majority of players and the royal "we" (easy to do I might add), but they're actually left with very little choice, they might not love having to multibox links and falcon alts, but rather they feel they need them to be able to compete, which is understandable in the current climate.

The rest of that post is just waffle. Players are active and contributing when it's in their interest, ie doing something they want to do or working towards something they want. No targets for your blood thirsty pvpers could well become a problem if you drive all their targets out of the game.

Like any system, it has its pros and cons.

Think of it as CCP giving you access to more toys over time. You can choose the order in which you want the toys, but not compress the time needed for each toy. Unless you pay more (alts).

It makes sense from a business perspective. I personally find it acceptable also from a player perspective, at least regarding PVP. There are many things you can do even just with frigates, not to mention cruisers. Enough to keep you busy while the time passes by.

I admit that I have been slightly annoyed, in the last few months, at the timesink for T2 cruisers and T2 medium weaponry. When your friends decide to fly HACs with T2 Logi it's not so much fun to tag along in the 5th interceptor...

Maybe CCP could consider lowering from V to IV some of the skill level requirements for the most popular ships/weapons...

The funniest part of this entire thread is, every damn person posting here demanding people be forced to "leave station" (whatever the '*f* that actually means), insist that they in all things have their freedom to decide what they want without anyone forcing them to do anything. The double-standard is so palpable you could slice it with a chain saw.

It's none of your damned business what someone else does with their account. If they want to log, then they'll log. If they log and spin their ships, then spin their ships they will. It takes a real creepy person to think he/she has a say in what someone else should do with a gaming account. The weight of the bandwidth absorbed by this thread of digital busy bodies should scare us all.

I'd advise stop feeding the troll here. If you make a valid point he'll either ignore it, or claim it is one of the "wall jumping" exceptions which don't count or something.