Player Features and Ideas Discussion

They already stated the design goal for T3 a while back (don't ask exactly when, it's been a while). They even had illustrations for people to see (one was even linked in this thread). I'm not pulling this "generalization over specialization" out of nowhere.

The problem was when they first designed the ships, the goal was to give wormholes a ship with a lot of power per m3. This was also done before teiricide, thus, the idea of ships having roles wasn't as big a topic then either.

I find with destroyers being the class they chose for T3 introduction, there is going to be much more of a challenge trying to balance it. There are no other ships that really fit the roles that its modes provide bonuses for. Interdictors aren't the best comparison since their primary role is interdiction, which the T3Ds do not do. Arguably they both share the same role as destroyers, firepower against frigates, but that only helps us so much. And with the recent addition of drone/missile destroyers, the destroyer line-up is all over the place in terms of specialties, while still somehow trying to be the same role, anti-frigate.

If CCP had say, chosen frigate as a T3 project, there would be much more to work with. There are distinct specialties each ship tends to have and their T2 variants offer much in the way of options for modes or subsystems.

The problem in balancing T3Ds is the lack of a reference point, leaving a very vague, grey area for them to play in, while still needing to be balanced against each other.

Not that it can't be done, but the work needed to get there is drastically more. Hopefully they will touch on all the destroyers agan in a secondary balance pass soon.

Vagabond....Cruiser that flies like a Frigate- the actual in-game model for the Vagabond is barely bigger than a destroyer hull even though it is a cruiser. T3Ds are a smaller version that have a probe launcher and mode switching.- HACs and other T2/Pirate ships are still better at dealing with bigger targets. CCP just needs to fix the isk/skill investment to match at this point.

They are too easy to buy and fly for what they are, but they do have enough parallels in game to give them a place on the theoretical food chain of EVE ships- right between T2 Dessies and T2 Cruisers.

I'm content with these changes as well but the whiners in this forum are trying to induce CCP into nerfing the T3D's further for no other reason than to oust them from the meta entirely. So your thoughts on this balance pass is much appreciated otherwise the whiners are gonna spawn like rabbits and take over this sticky forum.

Well, there may be ships that can go faster than 2600m/s, but only so many of them- if there are no ships that the T3Ds have to fear then yeah, that's not good balance. The 10mn AB was too automatic, and had too few counters....now with 1mn MWD, you'll need to pay a lot more attention to what mode you are using and you have to fear really fast frigates with scrams. (Or at least really fast frigs with scrams that you can't just burn with your lasers- you do still have the benefit of small turret tracking to help deal with tackle frigs, and new utility slots for vamps and nuets too)

I only have Confessor for my oldest toon so far, I had been waiting to see how this re-balance played out (and also waiting for the Caldari and Gallente T3Ds) to train for them on other toons....probably going to just go ahead and "green light" that now.

oops double post

I don't see how they'll kill a Confessor in 20 seconds. I don't see a specific fit, but even a Beam + MWD fit should be able to hit T1 frigates easily and kill them before they can chew through the buffer (which will take much longer than 20 seconds). A properly fit confessor will still outduel just about any other frigate if it's piloted properly. T1 frigates can probably take it down in a cost effective manner but that's been true for every ship ever.

Holy Pessimism Batman!

It's not a game of tag....just because some of those frigs you list can catch a Confessor doesn't mean it will be a good idea.

With the 10mn AB fits the T3Ds were silly good- after the nerf these ships still have a lot going for them:

Svipul: Dual Prop (proposed for after I train up the minnie T3D skill)

---

200mm AutoCannon II x4
Rocket Launcher II
Small Diminishing Power Systems Drain

Limited 1mn MWD
1mn AfterBurner II
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II

Small Ancillary Armor Rep
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II x2

Small Polycarbonite Engine Housing II x2
Small Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I

Stat Highlights: (All5, no implants/boosters/OH)

436DPS w/ Hail/Rage ammo- Speed 324m/s (540 prop) AB 734m/s (1224m/s prop) MWD 1843m/s (3072 prop)

Note: this one is a PYFA fit, I don't have the skills to quite fly it in game yet....but apparently this fit could do just over 3000m/s, and then flip over to doing 700 or 1200m/s on AB in scram/web range. (Again, skimpy tank...and this one doesn't have the cap booster- ship is cap stable while not running the armor repper tho)

Dunno about that really. Post nerf I am able to put the heavier guns on, granting me an extra 15km optimal (now up to about 80+km), and an extra 40dps with aurora. I have more agility than pre-nerf, and the only thing I've lost is some tracking (due to bigger guns).

I'm not having any trouble at all blapping t1 frigs, even those that are forgoing using any hislots in an effort to bulk up tank and em resists.

And I've already tried going up against garmurs too. I can out-shoot their point, and if they are not already aligned to something it might be too late for them to warp off.

So far I've had trouble with two ships, Jaguars and Wolves. That 90% base EM resist....

It seems like there's a hidden MWD speed bonus for Svipul somewhere....I have my Svipul and Confessor fit very similarly (at least in regards to MWD and agility mods)- and while the Confessor has slightly higher base velocity, but for whatever reason the Svipul is faster w/ MWD on. (1800m/s and 3000m/s)

Anybody else seeing this?

(Edit, never mind.... it's a mass thing I guess?)