EVE General Discussion

So what do the "60 haters" get out of this?

Ballance issues need to be fixed not swept under the carpet.

Perhaps we can remove all the ISK that was created by the Tech imbalance, I hope he means this...

Lets take a closer look at CCPs actions over the last year shall we?

Industry revamp.

They nerfed high sec industry and buffed nullsec industry. Null industry is now more rewarding than in highsec which was CCPs goal, stating that people who do industry in null expend more effort, cost, time and risk therefore should see greater rewards.

Refining update.
CCP nerfed highsec refining and buffed null sec refining. Again, stating that more risk, effort and cost should yeild more reward.

Ore Changes.
CCP have worked on ore with the goal of making nullsec mining more rewarding than in highsec, again stating that people who take more more risk, effort and cost should be rewarded.

Looking further back we see PI gives morereward in null than highsec as does exploration. Are we seeing a pattern yet?

CCP are slowly revamping the whole game so that you get more reward for greater risk/effort/cost. So, everything you have said about risk/reward is just flat out wrong.

Best part of the tech argument is that they have no idea how much a tech moon tower actually made, they just assume it was infinite.

In terms of null sec ISK generation, I actually prefer doing that because it is more fun, which I have indicated to you before in previous debates. The fun is doing this while people want to stop you, hell I enjoyed every warp to a site and every alignment back to the POS safe, because I knew I was at risk.

Lets go into a very basic answer in terms of people in null having mission and incursion runners in hisec, one is of course the CTA issue I detailed above, but the real issue is those alliances near major players who have an AFK cloaky camper in their system 24/24 7/7. I know a lot of people go on and on about there being no risk because they are afk and all the other BS to cover up for this lame style of play, but sov costs ISK and if it was not for the fact that this is so prevalent and risk free for the cloaky camper, then perhaps my stance would be less defensive on level 4's and incursions, but there are multiple imbalances all inter-linked, including the massive ISK generation created by the Tech imbalance which made it impossible for smaller alliances to stand up to any of the big three that were part of that. NCDOT however still have the war chest and assets from that, but they are failing because their people no longer really log in any more.

The faction warfare thing is something I do not like, however at least it is low sec and there is risk, but yeah the reward is out of kilter compared to the asset put at risk.

Hisec has risk, lots of BS get blown up in and around Osmon, when there was an incursion near Kamio I was there going after Goon incursion gankers at one point. You discount those risks as negligible, but they are there.

Incursions and FW ISK generation are not fun which is why I do not do them, but Incursions is a limited ISK font in terms of the number of people able to run them. At least Incursion runners put serious assets at risk, even if it is fairly minimal in a well run group.

Industry revamp
HS industry is unchanged...it costs more to produce stuff, the great thing about that is, you just roll that back into the price of the product.,

Refining
Requires more to get the same output, again, you just roll the cost back into the price of the final product. No change.

Ore changes
Requires more to get the same output, again you just roll the additional cost back into the price of the final product. No change.

PI/Moon mining/Exploration is based on "lore" related scarcity, more development in HS means Less resources, less undiscovered stuff. There is no difference in Risk associated with HS or NS. PI infrastructure cost the same no matter where you put it, you need the same ships to move it around, and said ships are quite kill-able in all regions of space. Same applies to Exploration as well.

But keep imagining that its because of risk/reward.

Do you know why CCP changed any of the stuff you listed.

Industry Revamp.
So NS could better produce on site instead of importing from HS with better time efficiency
Refining
So NS could better move larger ores around without depending on Gunmining to facilitate easier transport of product
Ore Changes
So NS could better source low ends at home instead of sourcing the bulk of building product from HS.

Nothing to do with Risk/Reward, everything to do with facilitating NS's ability to be able to reliably and efficiently produce product on site with much less dependency on HS.

As a HS producer, since Industry changes/Refine Changes, I actually earn more ISK today than I did before, and I still make more ISK than NS producers (because the market is much much larger has higher turnover). So nah nothing to with Risk/Reward there, and I will earn even more ISK once the ore changes iron themselves out.

Eh he doesn't care about imbalance, "We're not here to ruin the game, We're here to ruin your game" the Goonplatoon motto.

Fun fact, people were complaining about Tech bottleneck back in 2010, while GSF was busy being Kartooned. Before that people complained about Dyspro bottleneck. But ya it was Goons that got it changed not the other 350K people outside the CFC saying, hey wait a minute this is fucky. How much isk does an ego trip cost now a days?

Im sure it was Goons who got Tech buffed in the first place to right. Exposing the Dyspro Dupers prior to the rebalance of T2 build requirements. I imagine the Mittani himself spoke directly with Hilmar and made him an offer he couldn't refuse, or something like that?

(CCP used to use these little things as content drivers, until they realized artificial content creation was lame compared to letting the players make their own reasons)

Sitting on them when they were changed does not equate to being responsible for getting them changed.

Once you can explain the imbalance of incursions maybe ill agree with you, only thing any off you have said is that they make more isk than something else, which is basically Whaaa they make more isk than me...lots of things are like that in EVE. EVE isn't fair and not everything is equal, and there is nothing stopping you from doing them yourself, it is not out of reach for anyone, it is not limited to only certain people. Ergo there is no imbalance, except inside your own head.

TECH however was imbalanced because of its requirements in building, and its disproportionate regional seeding, it was heavily limited in accessibility, not even remotely the same thing.

Would like to see CCP drop in here and say few things about incursions .

I think i remember them saying and showing some data that isk influx was ok.

But i am more interested in what they think on subject and isk amount potential per person especially in high sec incursion.

if there is a problem?

Part of it would be that incursion are static never changing sites with joke AI that makes em easy to grind with presetup ships that never need to change.

There is no incursion to speak off rats are in sites making me believe that grinding them was always intended by CCP.

So would like them drop a line or two about incursions.