EVE General Discussion

i've found it funny for a long time that those who frame the discussion as being 'highseccers versus nullsec/lowseccers' are evidently incapable of looking to the left and to the right of themselves

So i confess i jumped about 15 pages because bleh... so this might have come up, but whatever.

Been watching RnK vids lately, and there was one where they were doing incursion runs in nul, mostly showing the Uroborus one.
So they we're saying that if you wanted to be paid, you needed at least 40 people and at most 70, otherwise you got **** rewards.

So i checked the journal description of it and in HS it seems it's 40 to 80, then the payout drops dramatically up to like nothing at all at 100 peeps.

If you really want to screw them over, just gather a fleet of 60 haters and jump into their Plex while they're doing it with **** fit T1 cruisers and wait in the room before the mother.

Shouldn't that kill all their precious payout or has that system been changed since ?

Yeah, didn't say it was the best idea ever but it's still a way

I mean, there's so many ways to Meta in EvE, infiltrate their channels, their coms, to know when they're almost done so you don't have to afk for an hour, or whatever time it takes to do one of those.

And who knows, someone does take the time and pulls it off a few time, might make them cry enough to make CCP investigate and realize it's out of whack.

I mean if some people are willing to shoot monuments for hours at a time when they're unhappy with CCP... what's a little AFK to "save the game" right ?

oh shut up

You gotta get off that crutch friend. Risk/Reward is not a balance metric...it can't be because it is an immeasurable. Risk/Reward is a catch all buzz phrase that lames use to attempt to garner favor in a discussion nothing more, nothing less. Again, the answer is not changing incursions (they are a capped event) the answer is making other activities more economically viable by comparison, so people can say, "Man I never get into incursion fleets, guess ill go do this other equally lucrative event".

I think incursions are a great system, and it would be nice to see CCP expand the system itself into other areas of space. Group play should always earn more than solo play. I mean if Incursions were generating 200m/hr by soloists I could see an issue. However people seem to completely ignore the hour+ it takes to set up a fleet, where folks earn effectively 0isk/hr. So lets just say in a 2 hour span, 1 hour @ 0isk/hr setting up a fleet, 1 hour at 200m/hr = 100m/hr combined, in 2 hours in Missions I can get 150-160m, in 2 hours in anoms I can get 120-140m (more if I team up with 1 other pilot no more than that then its more like 240-260m)

But you need to get off risk/reward, it has never been used as a balance metric, and it never will be. The only reason changes occur is because of an inadequacy in regional living. (why industry and mining changes were tweaked in NS, because they were previously lacking in terms of providing for the region)

One good way to do this would be to change bounty splits. Allow more pilots to work together before splitting bounties takes place. This facilitates faster group clearing as an option, netting more isk/hr for the whole group, while still allowing soloists to maintain current levels of income. Perhaps trial it by extending it to a Squad of people first, meaning for anom running 10 people can get 80m/hr at the same time (although this value would increase due to faster clear times).

Well I am not the one telling everyone how good I am at PvE in almost every thread I post in, neither do I tell people they are mad if they disagree with me, like your favourite of suggesting those that disagree with you are on meds or something similar. Neither do I look at the max income one can make from level 4's and compare that to a afk method of running anoms and stating that Level 4's are too good.

You, baltec1 and a number of others go on and on like broken record players about level 4's in hisec and incursions being out of kilter, that smacks of an agenda.

But yeah I am mad, obviously...

EDIT: As for making the point that many people who are in null sec have mission/incursion running alts, what of it, many alliances have CTA's that if you turn up after they have gone you are required to not do anything in game, so having the ability to play somewhere else just seems like commons sense. Does not bother me in the slightest, good luck to them, I really don't see what the issue is?

Let CCP say that. And no on said antyhting about risk/reward being a 'balance metric'. It's not, it's a core gameplay factor, basically the reason for playing. And ccp (probably inadvertently) knocked it out of whack. They replicated the high sec lvl 5 situation , but worse because high sec incursions don't even have the balancing feature of burnt agent standings as a consequence.

While imbalances have always existed, the current one didn't until after 2008. Before that and with the exception of the lvl 5 mission bug, if you as an individual pilot wanted "more/better" pve, you have to risk your ship to other player intervention (ie leave high sec) for that to happen. And that was a good thing, because dodging other players is WAY more interesting gameplay than just "fight off stupid npcs" ever could be.

High Sec incursions are just one of the symptoms of the post 2008/9 imbalances, there is also FW missions (WAY more income than even high sec incursions, all for the price of replacing a stealth bomber ever few days), lvl 5 capital blitzing (which was further imbalanced by the same drone mod and fight bonus application changes that created Skynetting) and the unnecessary buffing of mid level combat exploration loot tables (mid level invuls being better loot than ANY x-tpe mods in existence).

TBH it doesn't seem like you have enough knowledge of PVE to even understand the imbalances, and yet you feel confident enough to opine about it. I'd suggest learning more, then forming an opinion.

I look forward to a Drifter reading some of your posts...

Actions speak louder than words. You know what CCP did to HS incursions 6 months ago...they buffed them by roughly 33%. The isk/hr didn't change much, only the frequency in which one can run them. That is a pretty dank buff. ~33% more uptime.

Risk/Reward is not a factor, it is not a mechanic. It is an opinion that some players have, and some players don't. Last I checked the reason for playing is because it is a video game nothing more, nothing less. The reason I play is because it fills time, and I have met some really chill folks that I like to socialize with. Risk/Reward isn't even in the back of my mind when I play. Its just pixels, pixels have no value, I can't cash out ISK for real world cash, the only reason to play is because you are paying for a subscription with either cash, or time.

Thats it. There is no such thing as risk/reward. It is a ~narrative~ you wrap yourself up in, to feel like you are justified in doing X event over Y, it has 0 practical impact on the game, and is not remotely "the reason for playing". Many folks have different reasons for playing, which ultimately come down to more or less 1 common theme. Blowing up pixels with other pixels be they NPC or PC controlled.

Perhaps risk/reward should be titled

Do You Like The Gamble?!

http://righteousfilm.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/god_gamblers_gal.jpg