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[April] [Updated] Confessor and Svipul Balance Tweaks

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Jet Silf
Mercurial Messenger Service
#601 - 2015-04-30 21:39:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jet Silf
Rowells wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
the nerf's still don't cut it really, in comparison to interdictors and even T1 dessies these have MUCH better slot layouts and hugely better tank and at least in propulsion mode a confessor is quicker and much more agile than a heretic with same fits, so besides the obvious role bonuses that interdictors get, T3 dessies are much like T3 cruisers really.. OP.


I bet you don't even fly TD3's. People tend to whine about a ship that owned them because they are too lazy to figure out a proper strategy when fighting against them. A Rapier, Ashimmu or even a Flycatcher would wreck TD3's when proper strategies are implemented when engaging against them. Or you can warp to safes when you spot them on D-scan and continue whining in the forums about them.


so my comparison is comparing dessies against each other, you on the other hand throw in e-war ships as counters... that makes sense how exactly???

Not just ewar cruisers, but T2 and faction cruisers.

And then flycatcher, lol.


At least the way I am imagining them, T3Ds should fall somewhere between Interdictors and T3 Cruisers in terms of ability/power....so his comparison to those types of ships for T3Ds is valid enough. (I'm using mine very much like a miniature Vagabond) T3Ds don't just insta-win against everything...and there are ships that can really hose T3Ds given the right chance.

Again, it's like the biggest problem with the T3Ds is that CCP set the ISK/Skill cost way too low, and so people are expecting them to be weak. T3 is the highest tech level available to players, it really should be accordingly more powerful.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#602 - 2015-04-30 21:50:44 UTC
Jet Silf wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
the nerf's still don't cut it really, in comparison to interdictors and even T1 dessies these have MUCH better slot layouts and hugely better tank and at least in propulsion mode a confessor is quicker and much more agile than a heretic with same fits, so besides the obvious role bonuses that interdictors get, T3 dessies are much like T3 cruisers really.. OP.


I bet you don't even fly TD3's. People tend to whine about a ship that owned them because they are too lazy to figure out a proper strategy when fighting against them. A Rapier, Ashimmu or even a Flycatcher would wreck TD3's when proper strategies are implemented when engaging against them. Or you can warp to safes when you spot them on D-scan and continue whining in the forums about them.


so my comparison is comparing dessies against each other, you on the other hand throw in e-war ships as counters... that makes sense how exactly???

Not just ewar cruisers, but T2 and faction cruisers.

And then flycatcher, lol.


At least the way I am imagining them, T3Ds should fall somewhere between Interdictors and T3 Cruisers in terms of ability/power....so his comparison to those types of ships for T3Ds is valid enough. (T3Ds don't just insta-win against everything...and there are ships that can really hose T3Ds given the right chance)

Again, it's like the biggest problem with the T3Ds is that CCP set the ISK/Skill cost way too low. (And so people are expecting them to be weak) T3 is the highest tech level available to players, it really should be accordingly more powerful.


That would go against the design goals for T3s. With strategic you should have a ship capable of filling multiple roles at once, while not exceeding the Specialized counterparts, similar to the current balance between T3 ewar subsystems and their T2 counterparts.

The tactical version takes the same route, but allows the changes on the fly. The problem with trying to balance the T3Ds is that they have no T2 destroyer filling similar roles, so your reference points lay somewhere between frigates and cruisers. Trying to compare them to interdictors would not be the best option since their primary role and specialization is with bubbles.

Isk/skill cost should not be the primary balancing point. It doesn't end well.
Jet Silf
Mercurial Messenger Service
#603 - 2015-04-30 22:13:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jet Silf
Rowells wrote:

That would go against the design goals for T3s. With strategic you should have a ship capable of filling multiple roles at once, while not exceeding the Specialized counterparts, similar to the current balance between T3 ewar subsystems and their T2 counterparts.

The tactical version takes the same route, but allows the changes on the fly. The problem with trying to balance the T3Ds is that they have no T2 destroyer filling similar roles, so your reference points lay somewhere between frigates and cruisers. Trying to compare them to interdictors would not be the best option since their primary role and specialization is with bubbles.

Isk/skill cost should not be the primary balancing point. It doesn't end well.


ISK/Skill shouldn't be the primary balance point....but it is one worth mentioning for T3Ds- I posted about it a page or two ago, they are super super easy to train for compared to Interdictors and other T2/T3 ships Destroyer sized and up. T3 cruisers in particular, not only require way more skills and hundreds of millions of ISK to fly, but also have the skill loss drawback if you get popped- meanwhile new players can train into T3Ds (poorly) in a little over a month and pay for the hull using ISK they mined in a Venture while waiting.

As for comparison's sake, I'm currently using my Confessor very much like a classic kiting/teabagging Vagabond.... just smaller with a couple more tricks up it's sleeve. (Which IMO, puts it in a pretty reasonable place as far as in-game balance is concerned...if they made the isk/skill requirements harder to better match the ship's ability.) Also for comparison's sake, some of the interdictors like the Sabre are notoriously good killers even aside from having the bubble launcher...I've never flown Sabre myself, but I know they can be a really bad ship to take lightly in 1v1.
Iyacia Cyric'ai
Lai Dai Counterintelligence
#604 - 2015-05-01 00:49:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Iyacia Cyric'ai
Post-nerf review:

Having refit my Confessors and Svipuls post-patch I'm now of the opinion that the powergrid changes don't really do anything. I can still fit 10mn AB with negligble loss in DPS/tank. I would go so far as to say the powergrid changes did nothing because they just had so much powergrid to play around with (and still do).

The main drop in performance rather comes from the speed/agility nerfs, especially for the Svipul. Because of its agility, its scram range changes quite drastically that I think loading barrage might possibly be the best option in 80% of fights. Confessor is slightly at adapting to the agility nerf since instant ammo changes let its it cope with the variation in brawl ranges that come with 10mn ABs.

If Svipul is arty fit, MWD is almost always better because unless you 1-2 shot your target, anything moderately fast and agile can just run away from a 10mn fit if they find themselves losing the engagement and you don't have the agility to stop them leaving your point range.

Killing these ships is pretty much the same as it always has been... i.e. neuts and webs. That its now easier to neut and web them because of their lower agility/speed seems balanced IMO. Svipul still has the advantage because it doesn't care as much about neuts and I imagine the same will apply to the Caldari Jackdaw when that comes out.

As far as roles go, they still crap on all the other dessies and frigs (except maybe a well flown sentinal vs a confessor).
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#605 - 2015-05-01 01:56:01 UTC
Jet Silf wrote:
Ashlar Vellum wrote:

'Cause if this is still the guideline for how all ships supposed to be, then t3d still need more work.


I dunno, how do you feel T3 Cruisers really fit into that chart? Cuz I feel like they are waaaaay better than Navy and Pirate Faction Cruisers and usually better than T2- except that T2 is good at certain roles (like ECM and interdiction) for cheaper.

I feel like the end result for T3Ds should be that they are as good or better for direct combat than Interdictors, but Interdictors have the bubble launcher along with less ISK/skill overhead to balance the differences. (I feel with the 10mn AB problem out of the way, the only issue I see with T3Ds is they are super easy to skill up....and at least prior to yesterday only cost 40mil.)


Agreed, They should lengthen the time sink it takes to max them out and increase their cost somewhere b/t 80-100 mill. I would've paid 120 mill for them pre-nerfed.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#606 - 2015-05-01 02:31:11 UTC
Leonardo Adami wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
the nerf's still don't cut it really, in comparison to interdictors and even T1 dessies these have MUCH better slot layouts and hugely better tank and at least in propulsion mode a confessor is quicker and much more agile than a heretic with same fits, so besides the obvious role bonuses that interdictors get, T3 dessies are much like T3 cruisers really.. OP.


I bet you don't even fly TD3's. People tend to whine about a ship that owned them because they are too lazy to figure out a proper strategy when fighting against them. A Rapier, Ashimmu or even a Flycatcher would wreck TD3's when proper strategies are implemented when engaging against them. Or you can warp to safes when you spot them on D-scan and continue whining in the forums about them.


Rofl this post about using ships that far outclass T3's as a means to kill them shows how ignorant you are...not counting the flycatcher, but a Rapier or Ashimmu just to kill a destroyer Lord help you.


It's a T3, A T3. Meaning it's suppose to punch above it's class and since the other 2 T3D's aren't even out yet their are only a few ships in similar class that you can compare them too. The ones I listed are just an example of ships that can kill the current T3D's since you whiners makes them seem invincible. And yes there are others like the VNI, Stabber/Scythe FI's, and the Nomens that can tear the T3D's apart (assuming the pilot is competent which I doubt you are).
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#607 - 2015-05-01 02:39:09 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
the nerf's still don't cut it really, in comparison to interdictors and even T1 dessies these have MUCH better slot layouts and hugely better tank and at least in propulsion mode a confessor is quicker and much more agile than a heretic with same fits, so besides the obvious role bonuses that interdictors get, T3 dessies are much like T3 cruisers really.. OP.


I bet you don't even fly TD3's. People tend to whine about a ship that owned them because they are too lazy to figure out a proper strategy when fighting against them. A Rapier, Ashimmu or even a Flycatcher would wreck TD3's when proper strategies are implemented when engaging against them. Or you can warp to safes when you spot them on D-scan and continue whining in the forums about them.


so my comparison is comparing dessies against each other, you on the other hand throw in e-war ships as counters... that makes sense how exactly???

Not just ewar cruisers, but T2 and faction cruisers.

And then flycatcher, lol.


I honestly don't know about the Flycatcher, I only threw it in because I saw a clip of a Flycatcher taken out a Svipul but that could be due to pilot error etc.. Other than the Flycatcher, the Saber is the only T2D that you can compare the T3D's with atm. From there you have to go into the cruiser line of ships for comparison which are suppose to be their rivals.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#608 - 2015-05-01 02:41:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
Daniela Doran wrote:
Leonardo Adami wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
the nerf's still don't cut it really, in comparison to interdictors and even T1 dessies these have MUCH better slot layouts and hugely better tank and at least in propulsion mode a confessor is quicker and much more agile than a heretic with same fits, so besides the obvious role bonuses that interdictors get, T3 dessies are much like T3 cruisers really.. OP.


I bet you don't even fly TD3's. People tend to whine about a ship that owned them because they are too lazy to figure out a proper strategy when fighting against them. A Rapier, Ashimmu or even a Flycatcher would wreck TD3's when proper strategies are implemented when engaging against them. Or you can warp to safes when you spot them on D-scan and continue whining in the forums about them.


Rofl this post about using ships that far outclass T3's as a means to kill them shows how ignorant you are...not counting the flycatcher, but a Rapier or Ashimmu just to kill a destroyer Lord help you.


It's a T3, A T3. Meaning it's suppose to punch above it's class and since the other 2 T3D's aren't even out yet their are only a few ships in similar class that you can compare them too. The ones I listed are just an example of ships that can kill the current T3D's since you whiners makes them seem invincible. And yes there are others like the VNI, Stabber/Scythe FI's, and the Nomens that can tear the T3D's apart (assuming the pilot is competent which I doubt you are).

No, being T3 does not designate it as being more powerful. T3 is supposed to have flexibility as its key trait. T3 cruisers are expected to receive the same reductions once they get around to the balance.

I don't know about people getting kills on T3Ds with interdictors, comparing stats it seems more likely somebody messed up rather than having better power. The reason it isn't good to compare the T3Ds to interdictors is that they don't really have any overlapping roles, aside from the generic destroyer role of killing frigates.
Jet Silf
Mercurial Messenger Service
#609 - 2015-05-01 02:56:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jet Silf
Rowells wrote:

No, being T3 does not designate it as being more powerful. T3 is supposed to have flexibility as its key trait. T3 cruisers are expected to receive the same reductions once they get around to the balance.


As it turns out, "flexibility" ends up essentially meaning "more powerful" at the end of the day (and vice versa).....more flexible=more bonuses=more power=more better. T3 ships should be better than their T2/Faction counterparts, and many T1 ships should flee in terror from T3 ships in 1v1 scenarios.

Parity and Balance are cool in games and all, but no matter how much you try to level the playing field, something always ends up being better even if only by a small margin...in the end, games are actually more fun if you just allow some things to be more powerful than others and roll with it. (Example: Chess. Are all the pieces in a game of Chess equal? Hell No. Is there a forum discussion on the internet on how the makers of Chess need to nerf Queens and Bishops because of how useful they seem to be compared to all the other pieces? Hell No.....been that way for hundreds of years and nobody cares. they made a rule that says you can only have one or two of those pieces on the board at a time and called that "balanced" and rolled with it.)
Leonardo Adami
Doomheim
#610 - 2015-05-01 03:05:54 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Leonardo Adami wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
the nerf's still don't cut it really, in comparison to interdictors and even T1 dessies these have MUCH better slot layouts and hugely better tank and at least in propulsion mode a confessor is quicker and much more agile than a heretic with same fits, so besides the obvious role bonuses that interdictors get, T3 dessies are much like T3 cruisers really.. OP.


I bet you don't even fly TD3's. People tend to whine about a ship that owned them because they are too lazy to figure out a proper strategy when fighting against them. A Rapier, Ashimmu or even a Flycatcher would wreck TD3's when proper strategies are implemented when engaging against them. Or you can warp to safes when you spot them on D-scan and continue whining in the forums about them.


Rofl this post about using ships that far outclass T3's as a means to kill them shows how ignorant you are...not counting the flycatcher, but a Rapier or Ashimmu just to kill a destroyer Lord help you.


It's a T3, A T3. Meaning it's suppose to punch above it's class and since the other 2 T3D's aren't even out yet their are only a few ships in similar class that you can compare them too. The ones I listed are just an example of ships that can kill the current T3D's since you whiners makes them seem invincible. And yes there are others like the VNI, Stabber/Scythe FI's, and the Nomens that can tear the T3D's apart (assuming the pilot is competent which I doubt you are).


Lol there you go again with your mediocre attempt at insulting me and or your ridiculous assumptions regading my piloting/fitting ability. And all that just because I disagree with your opinion about the T3 destroyer. Your remarks and attempted trolling doesn't change the fact the T3's need more balance and will more then likely receive said balance once the other two ships are released.
Jet Silf
Mercurial Messenger Service
#611 - 2015-05-01 04:18:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Jet Silf
Leonardo Adami wrote:

Lol there you go again with your mediocre attempt at insulting me and or your ridiculous assumptions regading my piloting/fitting ability. And all that just because I disagree with your opinion about the T3 destroyer. Your remarks and attempted trolling doesn't change the fact the T3's need more balance and will more then likely receive said balance once the other two ships are released.


I disagree with the idea that the ships are too powerful for what they should be or too powerful compared to other existing ships.

I do agree that there should be and probably will be more balancing for these...but based more on making the isk/skill investment match the ability of the ship, maybe even make it so that it has a "ship death penalty" of some sort like T3 Cruisers do. (Also that making them cost 100-150mil ISK for the hull, as if buying a T2/Faction cruiser hull seems pretty fair based on their abilities.)

Basically, Tactical Destroyers are really good at picking on stuff that is smaller than them, with a little bit of ability to hit above their weight against T1 stuff- T2/Faction cruiser seems to be the breaking point for them on the food chain though. HACs, HICs, Faction Cruisers and Recons are all opponents that a T3D pilot should either approach with extreme caution or just avoid entirely.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#612 - 2015-05-01 04:56:40 UTC
Jet Silf wrote:
Rowells wrote:

No, being T3 does not designate it as being more powerful. T3 is supposed to have flexibility as its key trait. T3 cruisers are expected to receive the same reductions once they get around to the balance.


As it turns out, "flexibility" ends up essentially meaning "more powerful" at the end of the day (and vice versa).....more flexible=more bonuses=more power=more better. T3 ships should be better than their T2/Faction counterparts, and many T1 ships should flee in terror from T3 ships in 1v1 scenarios.
I'd like to see you tell me the flexibility of the old missile/turret typhoon made it more powerful than its single weapon counterparts with a straight face. Like I have said before, T3 is a class of ship with bonuses for multiple roles, while not exceeding all other ships in any particular function. That is why the current T3 subsystem lineup is due for a total overhaul. Some subs are way too powerful, others in a good spot, and then there are some that are almost completely worthless. Tactical destroyers take the spin of, rather than choosing more than one role at a time, you can switch at will.

Jet Silf wrote:
Parity and Balance are cool in games and all, but no matter how much you try to level the playing field, something always ends up being better even if only by a small margin...in the end, games are actually more fun if you just allow some things to be more powerful than others and roll with it. (Example: Chess. Are all the pieces in a game of Chess equal? Hell No. Is there a forum discussion on the internet on how the makers of Chess need to nerf Queens and Bishops because of how useful they seem to be compared to all the other pieces? Hell No.....been that way for hundreds of years and nobody cares. they made a rule that says you can only have one or two of those pieces on the board at a time and called that "balanced" and rolled with it.)

That doesn't mean we shouldn't pursue the best balance we can. Otherwise the game was fine years ago, and rolling back all the balance changes shouldn't be an issue. In which case, we enter a new era of dozens of worthless ships. Tiericide meant every ship has a purpose or specialty, not just more isk more power.

And honestly, trying to compare chess to a game like Eve? It's like comparing tic-tac-toe a game like Civ V. You might as well compare a rock to a planet and say they have the exact same properties.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#613 - 2015-05-01 05:45:16 UTC
Jet Silf wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Cleanse Serce wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Can you really fit a 10MN AB with Small Beams on the Confessors?


Fed nav 10mn AB yes.
Downgraded Beam (dual light beam)

[Confessor]
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer
Heat Sink II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner
Warp Scrambler II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Dual Light Beam Laser II
[Empty High slot]
Dual Light Beam Laser II
Dual Light Beam Laser II
[Empty High slot]
Dual Light Beam Laser II

Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Trimark Armor Pump II
Small Trimark Armor Pump II




Confessor]
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Small Armor Repairer II
EANM II
Small Armor Repairer II

10MN Afterburner II
Small Capacitor II (Navy 400's)
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I


Dual Light Beam Laser II
[Empty High slot]
Dual Light Beam Laser II
Dual Light Beam Laser II
[Empty High slot]
Dual Light Beam Laser II

Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Ancillary Current Router I

No Implants
Dps= 311 to 7.2 /9.7 (navy multi)
Speed = 1313m/s (prop mode+link=2679 m/s)
Resist= 69 59 65 75 (Def Mode+link= 84 79 82 87)
Sig= 60 (def mode+link= 26)
Tanks= 190 Dps per 3.4 sec

CPU= 19/225
PWG= 8.3/112.7

By comparison (with 1 Heat Sink II) using 4 Small Focus Beam Lasers II with navy multi dps is 373 and with Small Focus Pulse Lasers II with conflags dps is 396. I believe the best weapon when fighting within 5m is the Small Focus Pulse Lasers II, but you'll need a 3% implant to make everything fit. Btw this mini brick orbits like a BS now.


Since I use my Confessor in an environment where the offense and speed/agility are way more important than the tank, I went for 1mn MWD instead of trying to stick with 10mn AB fit:

1mn MWD Beam Kite (Cheap Version)-
Dual Light Beam Laser II x4
Core Probe Launcher II
Small Unstable Power Flucuator

1mn MWD
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster (Navy 400 Batteries)
Faint Warp Disruptor

Heat Sink II x2
Tracking Enhancer II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer
Damage Control II

Small Polycarbon Engine Housing II x2
Small Energy Locus Coordinator I

All stats @lvl5, no implants or links included:

Speed: 331m/s regular- 1573m/s MWD (Propulsion Mode: 552m/s regular- 2621m/s MWD)
4.07 second align time, 2.71 second align time in Prop mode.

Damage: 209DPS w/ Aurora, 32km optimal regular- 54km optimal in sharpshooter mode
366DPS w/ Gleam, 4km optimal- 7km optimal in sharpshooter- 301DPS w/ IN X-Ray, 13km optimal- 22km optimal in sharpshooter.
406mm scan res., 813mm scan res. in sharpshooter.

Tank: 57/44/52/66 resists regular, 71/63/68/77 resists in defense mode
SAAR reps for 156hp per cycle while loaded with paste (115 hp/s according to PYFA)

Basically this fit is pretty close to what I had before the nerf, just w/out the 10mn AB...which I wasn't really utilizing anyways. I get most of the speed/agility from the nerf back from the polycarb rigs while keeping the same damage and range capabilities....and it now has a small nuet for defense. (for what it's worth)

My fit really skimps on tank, but I usually don't need it since I use the ship to scan/chase down scanner ships, pods and other stuff that doesn't shoot back very much in lower class WH space. More often than not, I fly cloakies instead....but every once in a while it's useful to have a pursuit/interceptor type ship handy instead of cloaky.


Hmm I haven't even thought about using the 1MWD on the Confessor since they're already too cap dependent unlike the Svipul. Gosh even with cheap implants and links you're only looking at around 3630 m/s in prop mode. Idk if that's fast enough for soloing when some faction cruisers hitting around the 4k mark. How's the tracking with Aurora moving at those speeds?
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#614 - 2015-05-01 06:15:07 UTC
Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:
Post-nerf review:

Having refit my Confessors and Svipuls post-patch I'm now of the opinion that the powergrid changes don't really do anything. I can still fit 10mn AB with negligble loss in DPS/tank. I would go so far as to say the powergrid changes did nothing because they just had so much powergrid to play around with (and still do).

The main drop in performance rather comes from the speed/agility nerfs, especially for the Svipul. Because of its agility, its scram range changes quite drastically that I think loading barrage might possibly be the best option in 80% of fights. Confessor is slightly at adapting to the agility nerf since instant ammo changes let its it cope with the variation in brawl ranges that come with 10mn ABs.

If Svipul is arty fit, MWD is almost always better because unless you 1-2 shot your target, anything moderately fast and agile can just run away from a 10mn fit if they find themselves losing the engagement and you don't have the agility to stop them leaving your point range.

Killing these ships is pretty much the same as it always has been... i.e. neuts and webs. That its now easier to neut and web them because of their lower agility/speed seems balanced IMO. Svipul still has the advantage because it doesn't care as much about neuts and I imagine the same will apply to the Caldari Jackdaw when that comes out.

As far as roles go, they still crap on all the other dessies and frigs (except maybe a well flown sentinal vs a confessor).


Although I'm using the T3D's for C2 wormholes atm I trained them for PVP specifically since all the other ships I can fly are mostly laser bricks(with the exception of the slicer & nomen). If they receive another nerf then it would've been better if CCP NEVER BOUGHT THEM OUT IN THE FIRST PLACE because they would have no role or purpose. And CCP should refund every player that was deceived their 4 mill SP that was wasted training for them because these ships would then be utterly useless.
Lug Muad'Dib
Funk'in Hole
#615 - 2015-05-01 07:03:58 UTC
IMO D3 are still way too fast, and too strong for small plex, they killed diversity in FW.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#616 - 2015-05-01 07:16:57 UTC
Leonardo Adami wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Leonardo Adami wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
the nerf's still don't cut it really, in comparison to interdictors and even T1 dessies these have MUCH better slot layouts and hugely better tank and at least in propulsion mode a confessor is quicker and much more agile than a heretic with same fits, so besides the obvious role bonuses that interdictors get, T3 dessies are much like T3 cruisers really.. OP.


I bet you don't even fly TD3's. People tend to whine about a ship that owned them because they are too lazy to figure out a proper strategy when fighting against them. A Rapier, Ashimmu or even a Flycatcher would wreck TD3's when proper strategies are implemented when engaging against them. Or you can warp to safes when you spot them on D-scan and continue whining in the forums about them.


Rofl this post about using ships that far outclass T3's as a means to kill them shows how ignorant you are...not counting the flycatcher, but a Rapier or Ashimmu just to kill a destroyer Lord help you.


It's a T3, A T3. Meaning it's suppose to punch above it's class and since the other 2 T3D's aren't even out yet their are only a few ships in similar class that you can compare them too. The ones I listed are just an example of ships that can kill the current T3D's since you whiners makes them seem invincible. And yes there are others like the VNI, Stabber/Scythe FI's, and the Nomens that can tear the T3D's apart (assuming the pilot is competent which I doubt you are).


Lol there you go again with your mediocre attempt at insulting me and or your ridiculous assumptions regading my piloting/fitting ability. And all that just because I disagree with your opinion about the T3 destroyer. Your remarks and attempted trolling doesn't change the fact the T3's need more balance and will more then likely receive said balance once the other two ships are released.


Yea that statement was a troll remark and I apologize. It just pisses me off when people whine and whine about a particular ship just to induce CCP to nerf it to oblivion. The only REAL reason people would still complain about the T3D's being OP is because they STILL fear the ships or just flat out don't like them because they make their favorite ships obsolete. Since players now realize that CCP "listen to the players" the forums have become a paradise for whiners. In short, quit whining like a whimper when something new comes out and learn to adjust.
Jet Silf
Mercurial Messenger Service
#617 - 2015-05-01 07:36:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Jet Silf
Daniela Doran wrote:

Hmm I haven't even thought about using the 1MWD on the Confessor since they're already too cap dependent unlike the Svipul. Gosh even with cheap implants and links you're only looking at around 3630 m/s in prop mode. Idk if that's fast enough for soloing when some faction cruisers hitting around the 4k mark. How's the tracking with Aurora moving at those speeds?


With deadspace MWD and cap booster, I can all but permarun the MWD, even while running a lot of my other mods...and the ship can speed tank on the MWD much like 10mn AB despite the sig radius bloom. (Not as good, reliant on defense mode more- which is cool because with 10mn AB I wasn't needing defense mode at all) It's funny, cuz I had buddies that were really bummed out by the 10mn AB nerf....but I think from what I am seeing now, the nerf was fair enough and the ship still looks really viable with 1mn MWD- it just has to put up with the same trade-offs that so many other ships with MWDs do.

Tracking on the Dual Lights w/Aurora seems really good at speed actually.....I was using mostly the same setup prior to the nerf, but with oversize AB. It's funny, cuz I had buddies that were really bummed out by the 10mn AB nerf....but I think from what I am seeing now the nerf was fair enough and the ship still looks really viable with 1mn MWD
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
#618 - 2015-05-01 08:01:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Cleanse Serce
Lug Muad'Dib wrote:
IMO D3 are still way too fast, and too strong for small plex, they killed diversity in FW.


I can still see hookbills, and merlins, and slicers, and comets, and dramiels, and garmurs, and algoses, and thrashers, and dragoons, and, and, and, and, and, and, and...

I really don't understand, it's like Garmurs had killed Interceptors.... (talkin for a LS environment.)
Or like the unscannable Recons had killed medium plexes .....

I agree they should be not allowed to enter small plexes.
But not anymore, concidering the nerfs, and the one probably comin again, if people keeps whining about them instead of thinking a way to counter them...

*sigh*
Jet Silf
Mercurial Messenger Service
#619 - 2015-05-01 08:07:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jet Silf
Lug Muad'Dib wrote:
IMO D3 are still way too fast, and too strong for small plex, they killed diversity in FW.


See, this is where using isk/skill investment as a balance factor is important....it isn't that T3Ds are the only ships that could be out there harshing your FW mellow... it's that they are much more powerful than anything as cheap and low SP- stuff that is on par with T3Ds (Or better) like HACs and Recons cost 3 times as much isk, and at least that much more in skill time- way more considering stuff like T2 drones and T2 Medium Turrets/Launchers to fit them out with.
Lug Muad'Dib
Funk'in Hole
#620 - 2015-05-01 08:52:51 UTC
Combat recon are problematic too, and ?
Just never do medium plex without cloacky eyes on gate. It's just an intel problem for solo account after all..

And yes, hopefully you can still see a lot of things in small plexes, until a D3 come... Combat environnement in small plex was better before their introduction, and the nerf wasn't enough strong to shake that.

If you want to raise cost to 300m or nerf it more, it's your opinion, mine is don't allow them in small plex will be enough and good for FW area.