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[April] [Updated] Confessor and Svipul Balance Tweaks

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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#581 - 2015-04-29 21:59:57 UTC
the nerf's still don't cut it really, in comparison to interdictors and even T1 dessies these have MUCH better slot layouts and hugely better tank and at least in propulsion mode a confessor is quicker and much more agile than a heretic with same fits, so besides the obvious role bonuses that interdictors get, T3 dessies are much like T3 cruisers really.. OP.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Jet Silf
Mercurial Messenger Service
#582 - 2015-04-29 22:03:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Jet Silf
Rowells wrote:
Jet Silf wrote:
Ashlar Vellum wrote:

'Cause if this is still the guideline for how all ships supposed to be, then t3d still need more work.


I dunno, how do you feel T3 Cruisers really fit into that chart? Cuz I feel like they are waaaaay better than Navy and Pirate Faction Cruisers and usually better than T2- except that T2 is good at certain roles (like ECM and interdiction) for cheaper.

That's because T3's have not been fully balanced yet. Barely been touched at all, really.


If anything, they should just fix the skill requirements for Tac Dessies- Not counting basic skills you would need for every ship, to skill up for T3 Cruisers I needed 6 or so skills trained to 5, and then needed to train 6 different skills for the actual ship and it's subsystems. For Interdictor I needed 4 skills to 5, and then needed to train the Interdictor skill at 5x rate....for T3 Dessies I need Dessy 5 and Tac Dessie, which only takes about 2 weeks to train to the max, because its a x3 skill.

Maybe "the problem" isn't that people are flying the T3Ds so much because they are good (there are plenty of other ships that are good if flown right), but because they are too easy for people to get in the first place.
Leonardo Adami
Doomheim
#583 - 2015-04-29 22:03:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Leonardo Adami
Jet Silf wrote:
Leonardo Adami wrote:
I said it earlier and I'll say it again, I predict when all four ships are released these ships will receive another balance pass.


Right....and I don't think you can even fit a Merlin properly, so I don't know or care what you are basing your assumptions on.


That's ok you're entitled to believe whatever you want. Doesn't mean you're beliefs are correct.
khaip ur
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#584 - 2015-04-30 01:53:59 UTC
Okay posted this elsewhere first because i simply could not find this thread.

What am I suppose to do with the second high utility slot? Anyone please a hint would be nice. I tried Nos and Nuet, neither really added anything to my arty svipul what with me being out of range for the one and the other draining my cap faster then most of what I want to kill. And logi stuff is for logi ships I can't be asked to orbit and rep with my one small shield/cap transfer that has no ship bonuses. Probes go in the first but what is the second good for.

I am seriously tempted to put a bomb on there I have no idea why maybe hypothetical drones but its the only option at this point.

CCP all will be forgiven if you take that extra high and move it to mid for Svipul and low for Confessor.
Jet Silf
Mercurial Messenger Service
#585 - 2015-04-30 03:33:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Jet Silf
khaip ur wrote:
Okay posted this elsewhere first because i simply could not find this thread.

What am I suppose to do with the second high utility slot? Anyone please a hint would be nice. I tried Nos and Nuet, neither really added anything to my arty svipul what with me being out of range for the one and the other draining my cap faster then most of what I want to kill. And logi stuff is for logi ships I can't be asked to orbit and rep with my one small shield/cap transfer that has no ship bonuses. Probes go in the first but what is the second good for.

I am seriously tempted to put a bomb on there I have no idea why maybe hypothetical drones but its the only option at this point.

CCP all will be forgiven if you take that extra high and move it to mid for Svipul and low for Confessor.


For my Confessor, I put a small nuet in it. (After dropping 10mn AB for 1mn MWD) It's not great, but it is a possible defense against scram frigs. Bomb could work but I don't know how good small smarties really are against T2 drones.
khaip ur
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#586 - 2015-04-30 03:54:03 UTC
Jet Silf wrote:

For my Confessor, I put a small nuet in it. (After dropping 10mn AB for 1mn MWD) It's not great, but it is a possible defense against scram frigs. Bomb could work but I don't know how good small smarties really are.


I had to switch from passive to active tank to fit in the arty so I suddenly have a cap problem. I tried the neut but did not like how fast I ran out of cap myself. And small smartbombs are really not very good 3km 60 damage every 7.5 sec at max skill. The most effective use I have found is if you get the timing exactly right you can take out a missile and it annoys light drones. But again uses my cap I would rather be saving for hardeners and boosters.

I think most fits are going to just leave it as a heat break as it stands.
Jet Silf
Mercurial Messenger Service
#587 - 2015-04-30 04:08:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jet Silf
khaip ur wrote:
Jet Silf wrote:

For my Confessor, I put a small nuet in it. (After dropping 10mn AB for 1mn MWD) It's not great, but it is a possible defense against scram frigs. Bomb could work but I don't know how good small smarties really are.


I had to switch from passive to active tank to fit in the arty so I suddenly have a cap problem. I tried the neut but did not like how fast I ran out of cap myself. And small smartbombs are really not very good 3km 60 damage every 7.5 sec at max skill. The most effective use I have found is if you get the timing exactly right you can take out a missile and it annoys light drones. But again uses my cap I would rather be saving for hardeners and boosters.

I think most fits are going to just leave it as a heat break as it stands.


I was just going to say, leaving it empty is an option too....since the ship already has a heat reduction bonus, it would be interesting to know if that makes a noticable difference. Small nuet is def. not a great option...I went with it because it might save my neck in the right circumstances and my fit also already has a cap booster to help back it up if I need it.
khaip ur
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#588 - 2015-04-30 05:40:35 UTC
Jet Silf wrote:
khaip ur wrote:
Jet Silf wrote:

For my Confessor, I put a small nuet in it. (After dropping 10mn AB for 1mn MWD) It's not great, but it is a possible defense against scram frigs. Bomb could work but I don't know how good small smarties really are.


I had to switch from passive to active tank to fit in the arty so I suddenly have a cap problem. I tried the neut but did not like how fast I ran out of cap myself. And small smartbombs are really not very good 3km 60 damage every 7.5 sec at max skill. The most effective use I have found is if you get the timing exactly right you can take out a missile and it annoys light drones. But again uses my cap I would rather be saving for hardeners and boosters.

I think most fits are going to just leave it as a heat break as it stands.


I was just going to say, leaving it empty is an option too....since the ship already has a heat reduction bonus, it would be interesting to know if that makes a noticable difference. Small nuet is def. not a great option...I went with it because it might save my neck in the right circumstances and my fit also already has a cap booster to help back it up if I need it.


I have decided I am going back to my roots all those years ago when I first flew destroyers and put on a salvager. Tech 1 mind, no need to go posh.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#589 - 2015-04-30 07:09:59 UTC
Jet Silf wrote:
Leonardo Adami wrote:
The two ships are still way to overpowered. I feel fairly confident that when the other two tech 3 destroyers are released CCP will make another "balance" pass at this class of ship. When that happens the ships really should lose another 15pg and 5 cpu. Also reduce that damage bonus to 30%.


You know these are T3 ships right? They really should be better than a lot of other ships of comparable size.

I'm not seeing any combat records on zKill or BattleClinic for you, and your toon is only like 4 months old.... I'm thinking you don't really know what you are talking about here.


He doesn't, he's just another troll obviously who can only fly at best T1 & T2 Frigs.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#590 - 2015-04-30 07:17:21 UTC
Leonardo Adami wrote:
I said it earlier and I'll say it again, I predict when all four ships are released these ships will receive another balance pass.


Quit whining troll. You have no concept of what TD3's are suppose to be. Just stick with your AF's and continue Warp Drive Activating to your safe spots when you see Svipuls/Confessors on D-scan.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#591 - 2015-04-30 09:09:53 UTC
Cleanse Serce wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Can you really fit a 10MN AB with Small Beams on the Confessors?


Fed nav 10mn AB yes.
Downgraded Beam (dual light beam)

[Confessor]
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer
Heat Sink II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner
Warp Scrambler II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Dual Light Beam Laser II
[Empty High slot]
Dual Light Beam Laser II
Dual Light Beam Laser II
[Empty High slot]
Dual Light Beam Laser II

Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Trimark Armor Pump II
Small Trimark Armor Pump II




Confessor]
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Small Armor Repairer II
EANM II
Small Armor Repairer II

10MN Afterburner II
Small Capacitor II (Navy 400's)
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I


Dual Light Beam Laser II
[Empty High slot]
Dual Light Beam Laser II
Dual Light Beam Laser II
[Empty High slot]
Dual Light Beam Laser II

Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Ancillary Current Router I

No Implants
Dps= 311 to 7.2 /9.7 (navy multi)
Speed = 1313m/s (prop mode+link=2679 m/s)
Resist= 69 59 65 75 (Def Mode+link= 84 79 82 87)
Sig= 60 (def mode+link= 26)
Tanks= 190 Dps per 3.4 sec

CPU= 19/225
PWG= 8.3/112.7

By comparison (with 1 Heat Sink II) using 4 Small Focus Beam Lasers II with navy multi dps is 373 and with Small Focus Pulse Lasers II with conflags dps is 396. I believe the best weapon when fighting within 5m is the Small Focus Pulse Lasers II, but you'll need a 3% implant to make everything fit. Btw this mini brick orbits like a BS now.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#592 - 2015-04-30 09:32:49 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
the nerf's still don't cut it really, in comparison to interdictors and even T1 dessies these have MUCH better slot layouts and hugely better tank and at least in propulsion mode a confessor is quicker and much more agile than a heretic with same fits, so besides the obvious role bonuses that interdictors get, T3 dessies are much like T3 cruisers really.. OP.


I bet you don't even fly TD3's. People tend to whine about a ship that owned them because they are too lazy to figure out a proper strategy when fighting against them. A Rapier, Ashimmu or even a Flycatcher would wreck TD3's when proper strategies are implemented when engaging against them. Or you can warp to safes when you spot them on D-scan and continue whining in the forums about them.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#593 - 2015-04-30 10:24:07 UTC
Lug Muad'Dib wrote:
Beam, arty and pule are more powerfull than hybrids (small size).


Yep. I was having some arragned 1 vs 1's on SiSi and one of the pilots was very fond of the Navy Comet. I have'nt flown one in quite some time but when I trained Gallente, I really love this small ship a lot.

So I put on my old blaster fit and it went very well but with small railguns it was really terrible.

Small railguns could use a bit more pshhhhhh.

Don't forget, beams are high alpha turrets and the Navy Slicer with beams is sooo cool, oh and the Succubus doesn't suck anymore, which is great for dangerous tackle work.

I don't know about the matari destroyer but the Confessor now has the turn-speed of an oil-tanker which is frozen in the arctic.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#594 - 2015-04-30 18:06:56 UTC
Small rail guns are pretty pos. tried to kill two pods I had a rammed with 75mm rails on a keres.

I had to slow down to under 100km to hit them. Then I had to shoot them about 5 times to pop them.

Terrible example I know. I just found it funny that I couldn't hit a pod with that due to tracking (pods are small though).

Yaay!!!!
Jet Silf
Mercurial Messenger Service
#595 - 2015-04-30 18:43:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Jet Silf
Daniela Doran wrote:
Cleanse Serce wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Can you really fit a 10MN AB with Small Beams on the Confessors?


Fed nav 10mn AB yes.
Downgraded Beam (dual light beam)

[Confessor]
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer
Heat Sink II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner
Warp Scrambler II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Dual Light Beam Laser II
[Empty High slot]
Dual Light Beam Laser II
Dual Light Beam Laser II
[Empty High slot]
Dual Light Beam Laser II

Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Trimark Armor Pump II
Small Trimark Armor Pump II




Confessor]
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Small Armor Repairer II
EANM II
Small Armor Repairer II

10MN Afterburner II
Small Capacitor II (Navy 400's)
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I


Dual Light Beam Laser II
[Empty High slot]
Dual Light Beam Laser II
Dual Light Beam Laser II
[Empty High slot]
Dual Light Beam Laser II

Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Ancillary Current Router I

No Implants
Dps= 311 to 7.2 /9.7 (navy multi)
Speed = 1313m/s (prop mode+link=2679 m/s)
Resist= 69 59 65 75 (Def Mode+link= 84 79 82 87)
Sig= 60 (def mode+link= 26)
Tanks= 190 Dps per 3.4 sec

CPU= 19/225
PWG= 8.3/112.7

By comparison (with 1 Heat Sink II) using 4 Small Focus Beam Lasers II with navy multi dps is 373 and with Small Focus Pulse Lasers II with conflags dps is 396. I believe the best weapon when fighting within 5m is the Small Focus Pulse Lasers II, but you'll need a 3% implant to make everything fit. Btw this mini brick orbits like a BS now.


Since I use my Confessor in an environment where the offense and speed/agility are way more important than the tank, I went for 1mn MWD instead of trying to stick with 10mn AB fit:

1mn MWD Beam Kite (Cheap Version)-
Dual Light Beam Laser II x4
Core Probe Launcher II
Small Unstable Power Flucuator

1mn MWD
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster (Navy 400 Batteries)
Faint Warp Disruptor

Heat Sink II x2
Tracking Enhancer II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer
Damage Control II

Small Polycarbon Engine Housing II x2
Small Energy Locus Coordinator I

All stats @lvl5, no implants or links included:

Speed: 331m/s regular- 1573m/s MWD (Propulsion Mode: 552m/s regular- 2621m/s MWD)
4.07 second align time, 2.71 second align time in Prop mode.

Damage: 209DPS w/ Aurora, 32km optimal regular- 54km optimal in sharpshooter mode
366DPS w/ Gleam, 4km optimal- 7km optimal in sharpshooter- 301DPS w/ IN X-Ray, 13km optimal- 22km optimal in sharpshooter.
406mm scan res., 813mm scan res. in sharpshooter.

Tank: 57/44/52/66 resists regular, 71/63/68/77 resists in defense mode
SAAR reps for 156hp per cycle while loaded with paste (115 hp/s according to PYFA)

Basically this fit is pretty close to what I had before the nerf, just w/out the 10mn AB...which I wasn't really utilizing anyways. I get most of the speed/agility from the nerf back from the polycarb rigs while keeping the same damage and range capabilities....and it now has a small nuet for defense. (for what it's worth)

My fit really skimps on tank, but I usually don't need it since I use the ship to scan/chase down scanner ships, pods and other stuff that doesn't shoot back very much in lower class WH space. More often than not, I fly cloakies instead....but every once in a while it's useful to have a pursuit/interceptor type ship handy instead of cloaky.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#596 - 2015-04-30 19:23:11 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
the nerf's still don't cut it really, in comparison to interdictors and even T1 dessies these have MUCH better slot layouts and hugely better tank and at least in propulsion mode a confessor is quicker and much more agile than a heretic with same fits, so besides the obvious role bonuses that interdictors get, T3 dessies are much like T3 cruisers really.. OP.


I bet you don't even fly TD3's. People tend to whine about a ship that owned them because they are too lazy to figure out a proper strategy when fighting against them. A Rapier, Ashimmu or even a Flycatcher would wreck TD3's when proper strategies are implemented when engaging against them. Or you can warp to safes when you spot them on D-scan and continue whining in the forums about them.


so my comparison is comparing dessies against each other, you on the other hand throw in e-war ships as counters... that makes sense how exactly???

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Leonardo Adami
Doomheim
#597 - 2015-04-30 21:03:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Leonardo Adami
Daniela Doran wrote:
Jet Silf wrote:
Leonardo Adami wrote:
The two ships are still way to overpowered. I feel fairly confident that when the other two tech 3 destroyers are released CCP will make another "balance" pass at this class of ship. When that happens the ships really should lose another 15pg and 5 cpu. Also reduce that damage bonus to 30%.


You know these are T3 ships right? They really should be better than a lot of other ships of comparable size.

I'm not seeing any combat records on zKill or BattleClinic for you, and your toon is only like 4 months old.... I'm thinking you don't really know what you are talking about here.


He doesn't, he's just another troll obviously who can only fly at best T1 & T2 Frigs.


Again you're entitled to believe anything you want. Doesn't mean your beliefs are correct.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#598 - 2015-04-30 21:06:24 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
the nerf's still don't cut it really, in comparison to interdictors and even T1 dessies these have MUCH better slot layouts and hugely better tank and at least in propulsion mode a confessor is quicker and much more agile than a heretic with same fits, so besides the obvious role bonuses that interdictors get, T3 dessies are much like T3 cruisers really.. OP.


I bet you don't even fly TD3's. People tend to whine about a ship that owned them because they are too lazy to figure out a proper strategy when fighting against them. A Rapier, Ashimmu or even a Flycatcher would wreck TD3's when proper strategies are implemented when engaging against them. Or you can warp to safes when you spot them on D-scan and continue whining in the forums about them.


so my comparison is comparing dessies against each other, you on the other hand throw in e-war ships as counters... that makes sense how exactly???

Not just ewar cruisers, but T2 and faction cruisers.

And then flycatcher, lol.
Leonardo Adami
Doomheim
#599 - 2015-04-30 21:08:02 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Leonardo Adami wrote:
I said it earlier and I'll say it again, I predict when all four ships are released these ships will receive another balance pass.


Quit whining troll. You have no concept of what TD3's are suppose to be. Just stick with your AF's and continue Warp Drive Activating to your safe spots when you see Svipuls/Confessors on D-scan.


One of the more clueless people in this thread.
Leonardo Adami
Doomheim
#600 - 2015-04-30 21:12:44 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
the nerf's still don't cut it really, in comparison to interdictors and even T1 dessies these have MUCH better slot layouts and hugely better tank and at least in propulsion mode a confessor is quicker and much more agile than a heretic with same fits, so besides the obvious role bonuses that interdictors get, T3 dessies are much like T3 cruisers really.. OP.


I bet you don't even fly TD3's. People tend to whine about a ship that owned them because they are too lazy to figure out a proper strategy when fighting against them. A Rapier, Ashimmu or even a Flycatcher would wreck TD3's when proper strategies are implemented when engaging against them. Or you can warp to safes when you spot them on D-scan and continue whining in the forums about them.


Rofl this post about using ships that far outclass T3's as a means to kill them shows how ignorant you are...not counting the flycatcher, but a Rapier or Ashimmu just to kill a destroyer Lord help you.