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CCP - End Highsec Incursions

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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#81 - 2015-04-27 13:08:08 UTC
Oh man if only highsec wasn't so absurdly safe. We wouldn't have these kinds of arguments.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#82 - 2015-04-27 13:08:56 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


This is a classic rant, the thing was that some of us wanted to run challenging missions as a team, level 4's are actually a laugh when you do it with a small fleet but only a very few missions are a challenge and to do that one has to shoot all the triggers, but level 5's in hisec were for a brief period a lot of fun for us, and then the risk reward player killers did their whining and they got them removed from hisec . Thanks for your work in making PvE boring for us...


whats broing? the fact you cant make nullsec income with concord protection? if your bored then move to somewhere more fun, its not really hard is it


Concord does not exist in null sec are you some sort of wombat?

There was some nice missions that required team effort and some people whined and got them moved to lowsec, for a brief period some people had a lot of fun doing them as a group, but people whined and the fun was removed from us all because people could not find anything to kill in lowsec because they killed off anyone who went in there.. And people now do level 4's as a group every so often and have fun blowing up the damsel, or setting all the triggers off for something challenging in PVE in hisec...

EDIT: The correct thing to have done was give some extra reward for the ones on lowsec, but CCP are not clever at times...


you are the only wombat for not even understanding a word i just said

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#83 - 2015-04-27 13:15:07 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


This is a classic rant, the thing was that some of us wanted to run challenging missions as a team, level 4's are actually a laugh when you do it with a small fleet but only a very few missions are a challenge and to do that one has to shoot all the triggers, but level 5's in hisec were for a brief period a lot of fun for us, and then the risk reward player killers did their whining and they got them removed from hisec . Thanks for your work in making PvE boring for us...


whats broing? the fact you cant make nullsec income with concord protection? if your bored then move to somewhere more fun, its not really hard is it


Concord does not exist in null sec are you some sort of wombat?

There was some nice missions that required team effort and some people whined and got them moved to lowsec, for a brief period some people had a lot of fun doing them as a group, but people whined and the fun was removed from us all because people could not find anything to kill in lowsec because they killed off anyone who went in there.. And people now do level 4's as a group every so often and have fun blowing up the damsel, or setting all the triggers off for something challenging in PVE in hisec...

EDIT: The correct thing to have done was give some extra reward for the ones on lowsec, but CCP are not clever at times...


you are the only wombat for not even understanding a word i just said


You make your own safety in null sec I thought everyone understood that, but obviously not, take Deklin for example that is safer than hisec, its remote and protected by the ultimate 0.0 war machine, behind loads of other regions that attackers have to get past to attack. That is the only place in the game where you have a certain amount of security, OK certain constellations in Cobalt Edge are pretty damn good in terms of being difficult to get to. I have been in null, get it...

It was a great shame that engaging team orientated PvE content was removed from hisec due to the whining by HTFU types.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#84 - 2015-04-27 13:17:56 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


This is a classic rant, the thing was that some of us wanted to run challenging missions as a team, level 4's are actually a laugh when you do it with a small fleet but only a very few missions are a challenge and to do that one has to shoot all the triggers, but level 5's in hisec were for a brief period a lot of fun for us, and then the risk reward player killers did their whining and they got them removed from hisec . Thanks for your work in making PvE boring for us...


Oh, it's classic all right. You and people like you are why we have a problem (in game and in the world in general).

What you posted here translates as "I was having fun doing something that I didn't care was bad for the game, then the people who actually do care about the game complained and CCP took away my unbalanced thing". You prove my theory about "carebearism": At the heart of carebear thinking is a selfishness so intense, the carebear thinks it's normal to be that way.

CCP said over and over that they didn't remove high sec lvl 5s because of complaining, but because high sec lvl 5s were never intended, it was a BUG that a few people learned how to exploit. It created the unfair situation of allowing a few players to farm up income (SOLO, in a Rattlesnake) that should not have been possible.

What's incredible is that CCP turned right around and made incursions, which did nothing but replicate the high sec lvl 5 problem.


Oh, and that "fun" argument is a lie. When CCP announced they were going to nerf incursions, Incursion runners claimed "it's not about the isk, it's about the fun and the community!". CCP nerfed incursions and those communities that somehow didn't care about isk died overnight, proving that they were lying. If it was about 'fun' the isk wouldn't matter.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#85 - 2015-04-27 13:22:34 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


This is a classic rant, the thing was that some of us wanted to run challenging missions as a team, level 4's are actually a laugh when you do it with a small fleet but only a very few missions are a challenge and to do that one has to shoot all the triggers, but level 5's in hisec were for a brief period a lot of fun for us, and then the risk reward player killers did their whining and they got them removed from hisec . Thanks for your work in making PvE boring for us...


Oh, it's classic all right. You and people like you are why we have a problem (in game and in the world in general).

What you posted here translates as "I was having fun doing something that I didn't care was bad for the game, then the people who actually do care about the game complained and CCP took away my unbalanced thing". You prove my theory about "carebearism": At the heart of carebear thinking is a selfishness so intense, the carebear thinks it's normal to be that way.

CCP said over and over that they didn't remove high sec lvl 5s because of complaining, but because high sec lvl 5s were never intended, it was a BUG that a few people learned how to exploit. It created the unfair situation of allowing a few players to farm up income (SOLO, in a Rattlesnake) that should not have been possible.

What's incredible is that CCP turned right around and made incursions, which did nothing but replicate the high sec lvl 5 problem.


Oh, and that "fun" argument is a lie. When CCP announced they were going to nerf incursions, Incursion runners claimed "it's not about the isk, it's about the fun and the community!". CCP nerfed incursions and those communities that somehow didn't care about isk died overnight, proving that they were lying. If it was about 'fun' the isk wouldn't matter.


Really so the brief period when me and some corp mates did level 5's in a small fleet were lies, yeah right we had a really good time doing them and you lot ruined it again...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#86 - 2015-04-27 13:23:10 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


Concord does not exist in null sec are you some sort of wombat?


Typical, you misunderstand what he was saying and then call him names. You are the worst part of this community.

Quote:

There was some nice missions that required team effort and some people whined and got them moved to lowsec, for a brief period some people had a lot of fun doing them as a group, but people whined and the fun was removed from us all because people could not find anything to kill in lowsec because they killed off anyone who went in there.. And people now do level 4's as a group every so often and have fun blowing up the damsel, or setting all the triggers off for something challenging in PVE in hisec...


Bull. people did high sec lvl 5s solo in rattlesnakes or in RR Domis with an alt.. And again, no one cares about where you play, they whole "you just want me to go to low so you can kill me" thing is just paranoid dementia talk.

Quote:

EDIT: The correct thing to have done was give some extra reward for the ones in lowsec, but CCP are not clever at times...



Like they did with low and null incursions... It's amazing, you can SEE that that does not work, and you still think it's a good idea. Amazing.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#87 - 2015-04-27 13:24:13 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
If I remember correctly it was said, the most liquid income for individual players comes from nullsec ratting ... I don't think Incursions are a big issue, especially as there is a limited supply of them in highsec.


You make less ratting in null than you do in high sec incursions. A lot less.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#88 - 2015-04-27 13:24:31 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


This is a classic rant, the thing was that some of us wanted to run challenging missions as a team, level 4's are actually a laugh when you do it with a small fleet but only a very few missions are a challenge and to do that one has to shoot all the triggers, but level 5's in hisec were for a brief period a lot of fun for us, and then the risk reward player killers did their whining and they got them removed from hisec . Thanks for your work in making PvE boring for us...


whats broing? the fact you cant make nullsec income with concord protection? if your bored then move to somewhere more fun, its not really hard is it


Concord does not exist in null sec are you some sort of wombat?

There was some nice missions that required team effort and some people whined and got them moved to lowsec, for a brief period some people had a lot of fun doing them as a group, but people whined and the fun was removed from us all because people could not find anything to kill in lowsec because they killed off anyone who went in there.. And people now do level 4's as a group every so often and have fun blowing up the damsel, or setting all the triggers off for something challenging in PVE in hisec...

EDIT: The correct thing to have done was give some extra reward for the ones on lowsec, but CCP are not clever at times...


you are the only wombat for not even understanding a word i just said


You make your own safety in null sec I thought everyone understood that, but obviously not, take Deklin for example that is safer than hisec, its remote and protected by the ultimate 0.0 war machine, behind loads of other regions that attackers have to get past to attack. That is the only place in the game where you have a certain amount of security, OK certain constellations in Cobalt Edge are pretty damn good in terms of being difficult to get to. I have been in null, get it...

It was a great shame that engaging team orientated PvE content was removed from hisec due to the whining by HTFU types.


you still dont understand what im talking about, simply you want to earn similar income of that of nullsec pve but want the protection of concord ie..in highsec lots of isk and lots of safety, you claim you are bored of highsec pve because they took lvl 5's out but yet you seem reluctant to actually move out of highsec to find the fun again

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#89 - 2015-04-27 13:25:51 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Concord does not exist in null sec are you some sort of wombat?


Typical, you misunderstand what he was saying and then call him names. You are the worst part of this community.

Quote:

There was some nice missions that required team effort and some people whined and got them moved to lowsec, for a brief period some people had a lot of fun doing them as a group, but people whined and the fun was removed from us all because people could not find anything to kill in lowsec because they killed off anyone who went in there.. And people now do level 4's as a group every so often and have fun blowing up the damsel, or setting all the triggers off for something challenging in PVE in hisec...


Bull. people did high sec lvl 5s solo in rattlesnakes or in RR Domis with an alt.. And again, no one cares about where you play, they whole "you just want me to go to low so you can kill me" thing is just paranoid dementia talk.

Quote:

EDIT: The correct thing to have done was give some extra reward for the ones in lowsec, but CCP are not clever at times...



Like they did with low and null incursions... It's amazing, you can SEE that that does not work, and you still think it's a good idea. Amazing.


So people come in do max ISK per hour and get the content removed from those that did them for fun, I suppose thats right isn't it.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Aladar Dangerface
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2015-04-27 13:26:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Aladar Dangerface
Otso Bakarti wrote:
There it is... "cheapens...low or null sec". This is just another "move everyone in high sec to low and null so we have more people to gank, since rental gaming is so BORING" thread. So, it's an impromptu conspiracy. Big smile

Take the tinfoil hat off please, no one is saying everyone should move to null/low/wh space, they are saying 'why should they earn less isk while risking more than someone earning a lot of isk while risking very little'.

EVE is based on risk vs reward which is why people hate on incursions and if you actually read what people are saying you would know this already.

I don't need twitter. I'm already following you.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#91 - 2015-04-27 13:27:43 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


Really so the brief period when me and some corp mates did level 5's in a small fleet were lies, yeah right we had a really good time doing them and you lot ruined it again...



Case in point about selfish carebearism. It doesn't matter that it was a bug. It doesn't matter that it was wrong. It doesn't matter that most people did them solo with Rattlesnakes (killing that whole "group pve" argument). What mattered to you is that you liked it.

And "you lot" (ie people pointing out that a bug existed) did noting, no one made CCP fix something they said was a BUG, they made that choice. And it was a good one, one of the few CCP has made with PVE imo.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#92 - 2015-04-27 13:29:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Really so the brief period when me and some corp mates did level 5's in a small fleet were lies, yeah right we had a really good time doing them and you lot ruined it again...



Case in point about selfish carebearism. It doesn't matter that it was a bug. It doesn't matter that it was wrong. It doesn't matter that most people did them solo with Rattlesnakes (killing that whole "group pve" argument). What mattered to you is that you liked it.

And "you lot" (ie people pointing out that a bug existed) did noting, no one made CCP fix something they said was a BUG, they made that choice. And it was a good one, one of the few CCP has made with PVE imo.



But where is the engaging team PvE in hisec?

EDIT: Coincidently I am not a carebear...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#93 - 2015-04-27 13:31:43 UTC
Aladar Dangerface wrote:
Otso Bakarti wrote:
There it is... "cheapens...low or null sec". This is just another "move everyone in high sec to low and null so we have more people to gank, since rental gaming is so BORING" thread. So, it's an impromptu conspiracy. Big smile

Take the tinfoil hat off please, no one is saying everyone should move to null/low/wh space, they are saying 'why should they earn less isk while risking more than someone earning a lot of isk while risking very little'.

EVE is based on risk vs reward which is why people hate on incursions and if you actually read what people are saying you would know this already.


That's well said. As I said in my example, it's crazy that I ca make 150 mil per hour with my ONE sniper mach in high sec (in an incursion fleet where all I have to do is keep at range of the aaa and broadcast for shields and occasionally cap, damn Outuni Wave) when It takes me TWO ships and characters to do the same thing in space someone had to fight for and upgrade.

Personally, I don't give a flip about how fat some high sec dude's wallet is or isn't, CCP made incursions so if you want to do them, have at it. But that doesn't change the fact that it's pretty unbalanced, even if it's not faction warfare bomber unbalanced lol.
Otso Bakarti
Doomheim
#94 - 2015-04-27 13:32:15 UTC
Aladar Dangerface wrote:
Otso Bakarti wrote:
There it is... "cheapens...low or null sec". This is just another "move everyone in high sec to low and null so we have more people to gank, since rental gaming is so BORING" thread. So, it's an impromptu conspiracy. Big smile

Take the tinfoil hat off please, no one is saying everyone should move to null/low/wh space, they are saying 'why should they earn less isk while risking more than someone earning a lot of isk while risking very little'.

EVE is based on risk vs reward which is why people hate on incursions and if you actually read what people are saying you would know this already.
Try reading the subject line of the OP. The "tin foil hat" reference is tired, and worn.

There just isn't anything that can be said!
Milan Nantucket
Doomheim
#95 - 2015-04-27 13:32:31 UTC
2Sonas1Cup wrote:
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:
2Sonas1Cup wrote:
Or drastically drop their payouts not the point of killing them but to a more balanced level compared to other highsec activities.

Highsec Incursions payout WAY too much for the risk and time you take.

Many people run incursions to plex accounts log out for the month.

Theres little to no incentive to do anything else in the game once you start running incursions, you wont stop, and you will not do anything else other than your casual pvp on a random alt when the opportunity arises.

Incursions are a decease, they are killing/killed a major part of the game, took the need of doing and trying different things to make isks.

Hell theres not even a reason to leave highsec anymore, whats the incentive of null when you can make as much or even more in the safety of highsec?


Please put an end to incursions, its been far too long already, sanshas must go.

Your grammar is a bigger problem than Incursions. Blink


Yea but you understand what Im saying right?

It is really nonsensical how much highsec incursions pay. It kills eve.

CCP: "Youre not supposed to feel safe when you log in, youre supposed to feel a cold and harsh environment"

Well this is totally the opposite of what eve feels like right now if youre an incursioner.


Heres what I do as an incursioner in eve:

- log in
- waitlist and grab a beer
- join fleet make 250mil an hour with lp included (each account)
- run for 2 or 3 hours and log out

Wheres the harsh and cold environment in this?


Well I hate the grind of incursions however it does pay for my expensive null sec ship losses. If your looking for a cold harsh environment then post your incursion toons name and next time I am repping ships I would be happy to ignore your request for shield, armor, and cap.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#96 - 2015-04-27 13:32:42 UTC
The entire risk vs reward argument is flawed. The fastest way to make ISK in the game, in terms of ISK per hour is station trading. It carries absolutely zero risk of losing a ship, as you never need to undock.

Given the existence of station trading, I see nothing wrong with incursions.

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#97 - 2015-04-27 13:33:48 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
take Deklin for example that is safer than hisec


Please provide any evidence that this is the case. Just a quick glance at the KB shows that ratting ship losses dwarf any high sec mission/incursion area despite the far higher population of highsec.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#98 - 2015-04-27 13:34:59 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
take Deklin for example that is safer than hisec


Please provide any evidence that this is the case. Just a quick glance at the KB shows that ratting ship losses dwarf any high sec mission/incursion area despite the far higher population of highsec.


Already proved that in another thread, despite certain removals from that thread.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Solecist Project
#99 - 2015-04-27 13:36:06 UTC
There is no engaging group PvE in highsec.
Incursions aren't engaging.

The only remotely engaging PvE is burner missions ...
... until they are equally predictable to run.

Anything that can be read up on prior to doing it ...
... is not in any way or form engaging.

And you just prove the point about the typical carebear selfishness.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#100 - 2015-04-27 13:36:26 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Really so the brief period when me and some corp mates did level 5's in a small fleet were lies, yeah right we had a really good time doing them and you lot ruined it again...



Case in point about selfish carebearism. It doesn't matter that it was a bug. It doesn't matter that it was wrong. It doesn't matter that most people did them solo with Rattlesnakes (killing that whole "group pve" argument). What mattered to you is that you liked it.

And "you lot" (ie people pointing out that a bug existed) did noting, no one made CCP fix something they said was a BUG, they made that choice. And it was a good one, one of the few CCP has made with PVE imo.



But where is the engaging team PvE in hisec?

EDIT: Coincidently I am not a carebear...


It's not in incursions (and it wasn't in high sec lvl 5s, again those were mostly done solo, I know, I did a whole lot of solo high sec lvl 5s). Incursions were supposed to be 'engaging team pve', but it's just monotonous FC led farming that people figured out within a week of it's launch. Good isk but so boring I just sold my incursion boat, I'll buy another in a couple months when I can stomach it.

This is why EVE is a sandbox game, because while I love CCP, they are horrible and making "content", it's better that we make out own.